Jalopnik
Yesterday, we saddled up in the General's new Oz-import RWD V8 hotness, the 2008 Pontiac G8 GT, and went for a nice long spin skirting the Mexican border and up through the wildfire-scarred hills east of San Diego. Here's what you need to know: This is one dang fine automobile but it's not without its issues. But at just south of $30K, what are you gonna do? Be a whiny little punk all day long? Just stab it and steer baby.
Pontiac thoughtfully provided us with both the base V6 — a perfectly capable 3.6-liter number making 256 HP — and the alternately growlin' and purrin' V8, which is of course why we're all here. She's a 6.0-liter, 361 HP honey of an engine that Pontiac says will propel the G8 GT to 60mph in 5.3 seconds. All this sitting on top of GM's Zeta platform, otherwise referred to as the Holden Commodore in Australia, where the car was engineered, built and put on the big boat. But most of you already knew this. Most of you also already know that this new arrowheaded sedan represents the first in a coming wave of rear-wheel-drive hotness coming from the General's Aussie branch — with the Camaro next up to bat.
First, let's just strike any more talk about the V6, because really that's not why we're here. We all know the horsepower and hoonage potential of the big V8 is the real reason anyone should be looking at this car. The big 6.0-liter can do the 60 in 5.3, as a brief stretch of Interstate 8 just south of Cuyamaca Rancho State Park allowed us to assess the hoonage quotient, and yes, it is high. It's more than enough to appeal to the youthful redneck contingent that has done time with the screamin' eagle and other Pontiac-badged play-things of the past. Aggressive throttling can set the back end free. Acceleration compresses the abdomen. However, the Aussies, they are a strange people. On the one hand, grilled-flesh-loving criminal stock with an affection for the rugged outdoors and strong beer; on the other, the constructors of the Sydney Opera House, the creators of Penfolds Grange (a fine red wine that rivals collectible California Cabernet and French first growth Bordeaux), and guardians of a culture that gave us the magnificent art critic Robert Hughes.
What I'm saying is: The G8 GT is not some yee-haw backwoods ripper. It's meant to offer far superior value to a BMW 5-series sedan. The car sounds very muscular on the straightaway, but it's refined muscle. Cruising on the freeway, at typical SoCal velocities of approximately 80-90 mph, is comfortable. And there's torque all over the goddamn place, a plaything for your passing pleasure.
Handling? Well, this is where we have our first teensy objection, but truly, not much of one. On meandering, single-lane curves — scenic country road stuff — the G8 GT is simply a pleasure. Point and shoot, with no discernible slosh and plenty of precision in the steering. However, when things get all tight and hairpin-ish, especially headed downhill, we started to feel the nearly 4,000 lb. the car is packing. By and large, the GT doesn't drive as big as it actually is. And it is large — the back seat has ample room for any number of Kama Sutra positions and the front is roomy without making your rear end feel as if you might slip as sideways as you're sliding the G8 GT's rear end. Unless you're fighting gravity and narrow, swerving asphalt. A better driver than this tester would probably be able to manage, but it came across as an Achilles heel. But big whoop. Such circumstances were few and far between on our little adventure through the SoCal wilderness.
But let's talk design for a moment as it's admirably restrained while still hinting at the power within. We studied two color schemes, each telling their own tale:
Red = Screamin'
Black = Well...umm...jeez...sorta elegant. Sorta.
The horrifically beak-like Pontiac front fascia nonsense of previous models is gone — hopefully for good. In its place, a more discreet and tasteful look. Not really a head-turner, but sharp and far more restrained than the Charger. But there are a few issues. I'm not nuts about how far-forward the hood scoops are pushed — it makes the front end seem stubby and I truly dislike the itty-bitty rear taillights. And don't even get me started on the funny-looking trunk lid (though it does hide one big-ass American trunk). Overall, the shape is solid, wide and provocatively sleek — yet another example of the complete Audi-fication of the performance-sedan design field. The 18-inch aluminum wheels are pretty. Ideal customer might be an air-traffic controller from Huntington Beach with a girlfriend who likes shoes, the Angels, and premium vodka.
Not much to say about the interior. Graphite tones. Brushed metal. Leather. Pretty easy to negotiate the instruments. Tilt-and-telescoping steering wheel. The Blaupunkt booms. There's a weird orange-red digital voltmeter and oil-pressure display atop the center console that on reflection we now like (it can't be turned off, FYI). OnStar with Turn-By-Turn nav more than makes up for no in-dash nav system and allows you to spend your energies focused on the road. The case for the owner's manual is a piece of floppy nylon shit.
Soooo, what more could we want? Six-speed manual, obviously although Pontiac claims they may offer one if they do a performance version. There's also the matter of the immense A and B pillars, something that we and our driving partner, the esteemed Jill Ciminillo of the Chicago Sun-Times, noticed as troublemakers during tight driving. Oh yeah, how about a sun-roof? Nice big one, please. Or T-tops. It is a Pontiac, after all, structural rigidity be damed.
Verdict? G'day, GT!
Comments
I still don't like the ol' standby Pontiac front fascia. It makes this great car look like just another Grand Am/Prix.
@GoKarter: Pretty much going to say the same thing. That plastic honeycomb is very downmarket.
Sounds like the review went just as I expected it would. I look forward to buying a used one in 5-7 years.
@GoKarter:
Same here with the fascia.
Is that Hwy 94 I see?
Did you see a KPOW purple one, Matt???? What was the G8 Swag Bag Like?? Did ya say Hi to jim Hobson for me???
Oh yeah, did you guys buzz through Yuma by chance? Say hi to my folks?
@GoKarter: @ash78: @Oldcarguy: Just buy an HSV one and import it, I've said this before, the stats of the new G8 and the amazingly tasty price... make importing a front an affordable option!!
YAY
thanks for the review. Sounds like it's just what ol' pontiac needs. Too bad it's a tad big for my needs/tastes.
GM is marketing the car as a value BMW 5-Series, which it isn't. Nobody in Australia compares or cross-shops Holden with BMW, that'd be like us saying Chevrolet is comparable to BMW.
Like the GTO anyone getting in one of these and expecting European steering precision, the finest materials and the latest luxury gizmos is going to be sorely disappointed. It doesn't seem like GM understands Holden or what the Commodore really is.
Holdens are mainstream cars and the SS models are modern muscle. They are intended for big smokey burnouts, sideways powerslides at ridiculous speeds and running the quarter mile with the V8 sound echoing off nearby buildings and deafening those watching.
This car is a four-door GTO that can take the whole family hooning.
@skaz: Sure looks like mountains and not desert nothingness in the background.
I'm really excited about this car, as it gives Pontiac a credible reason to exist once again. But this is what frustrates me:
"what more could we want? Six-speed manual, obviously although Pontiac claims they may offer one if they do a performance version."
Since when is a 361hp 6.0L not a performance version? Hell, the 256hp V6 was considered pretty serious performance material until the last few years.
It's tragic that in their quest to deliver products people actually want, they're really missing out on crucial details. I don't want to have to buy the $45k limited edition 450hp monster just to get a 3rd pedal.
It's particularly tragic because I'm almost exactly their target market, but I'm not buying it without at stick.
@LTDScott: Hence, Yuma.
@TriShield: I couldn't agree with you more from Matthew's description.
@TriShield: I'm comparing it to the BMW 128, but that's just me.
Possible GM company slogans: "It ain't perfect, but it sho' is cheap." Or "Doing the right thing only occasionally, and then for the wrong reasons" (see pushrod V8 for example).
I guess they figure if Hyundai can make the BMW comparison, they are more than fit to do the same.
If car buyers were more savvy, they could simply say "The All-New Pontiac G8: No More 0% Financing" and you'd know it was a good car right away.
Man that 2008 Pontiac looks like a great GT...
As soon as I can get one of these on the GM Supplier Discount, and pay off my truck, I'll buy one. Exactly the kind of car I want at a price I want to pay. Do want to see it in other colors and will swap out the bland 5-spoke wheels ASAP.
That's Jalopnik's most Car and Driverish review yet.
What's happening to this site?
@ash78:
Excellent point. Hyundai is going right after Lexus, of all brands, with their new cars and SUVs, complete with their shitty dealer network, ongoing quality issues, lousy resale value and a line up of "get me bought" customers who are all buried in their trades. This car is more of a Dodge Charger/Chrysler 300C/Infiniti G35/strippo 3-series competitor, which is fine.
I'd take it in a nice carbon grey and probably never complain again. I've been waiting for a big sedan that had more than "adequate" muscle and better looks than the Chryslers, but without the Germans' price tags. It may not be quite as good looking as the Holdens but geez, I like looking at it.
@Uncle_Bo:
It's much too large a car to be in the same competitive set as the 3 series or G35. That doesn't mean it won't be cross-shopped, but it's different markets.
I think this or the CTS makes for an interesting lineup of "full size" sports sedans from GM.
Does the word "value" mean anything to many of you commentators ?? It's not a high 50's Euro poser. It seems to be worth what it costs. As long as the usual GM stealer network doesn't get carried away now that they have something that people actually want. Bad dealer experiences here could turn people off very quickly. I'm planning on ditching my Audi A4 for one and hoping the dealer is close to being as good as it and my previous G35 were for service. Believe me this will be a VERY big issue if they want conquest buyers.
Depreciation will be a big deal here, especially since it'll be a gas hog. Fuel may be expensive, but unless you're driving 50k a year, it's nothing like the first two years of diminution for a lot of GM vehicles. Hope this starts bucking the trend.
Man, 0-60 in 5.3? that's almost as fast as Jan and Dean's batmobile! Quoth Robin the Boy Wonder, Holy rodent!
Remember when 4000 lbs was a rediculous weight for a car?
Look up the curb weight on a 57 thunderbird, or a 60's falcon wagon for reference...
GM better hurry up and make a Kappa or Alpha coupe with the turbo ecotec, otherwise I'm going to have to buy a the rwd turbo Hoondai coupe.
Without stick I would take a Charger over this thing, new 3.5 liter Chargers are selling for under $20K.
@no_slushbox: Not that I would buy a car without stick.
This car would have a decent chance with me if they could offer the 6MT with the V6.
Jan and Dean !! what a great blast from the past. They could do the background music for the first commercial !! DRAG CITY, yeah.
Wonder what the projected sales penetration of the manual version is? Less than 20%, I'm guessing. Only BMW seems to sell a decent amount of stick shift cars and those are mostly 3-series.
@Mad_Science: The six speed will be available later this year, the reviewer needs to spend some more time doing their homework.
@theeastbaykid: What is wrong with the push rod v8? I believe they are getting similar if not better gas mileage that the DOHC ford engines, and since the design has been around for ages the aftermarket is quick to adapt and parts are generally fairly cheap.
I've been a member of Jalop for quite awhile now and some of these posters are driving me up the wall lately, explain why the push rod v8 was a bad choice for this car. :rolls eyes:
Two things, First I'm a little disappointed there is no burnout photos. What you guys afraid GM will take away your hall pass?
Second, No offence Uncle Bo, But I truly hope GM nevers allows these cars to be sold at supplier price. I hate to be blunt, but if you cant at least pay invoice 2 years after the model comes out, then go by a Ford.
Great review guys!!
All it needs is more hp and less weight! It has two doors two many also,but I can live with that. The wifey and I just might buy one for our next new car.
I don't think the car is sloppy heavy or anything, just that it reveals its weight at times. Overall, it feels pretty solid. And it goes good when ya stand on it. And the back seat is big. It's a lotta car for sub-$30K.
@reefer: I've heard that (even said it myself, here on the site), but with this latest round of reviews, it appears that everyone asked about the stick (big shocker, there), and GM's PR gives wishy-washy maybe answers.
See my previous comment for my fear. I don't want the stick to be limited to just a GXP model. In fact, like no_slushbox, I'd be happy to get a V6 + 6MT + decent suspension/tires/wheels.
Mid-level product/marketing wankers will claim it's not worth the cost for the small % sales MTs get. The problem is, if you want people to take you seriously as a performance car mfger, you need manual transmissions.
@Uncle_Bo: If we're talking about dragons the manual transmission version of the G8 is going to get the deepest penetration.
From what I've heard the GTO had a >50% take rate on stickshift.
@reefer: It's a nice engine with a mammoth hulk to haul around. Yes, it's a 4 door sedan, but check out GM's marketing campaign. They'd have you believe it's fastback muscle.
Converting it back to a Holden. How hard can it be?
@Parramore46:
Weight is my biggest beef with the car, but I stress that for the most part, the V8 hauls that bulk around well.
And the comparison between the GPX and the CTS-V will be what?
Wish I had 30 grand to buy one of these...I'm a Pontiac fan from way back...my first real car was a '59 Bonneville sedan. I have a G6 now and have so far enjoyed 30,000 mostly trouble free miles and like driving it.
@reefer: I'm with ya on the whole pushrod complaining. It's been a while since I've heard anyone make that complaint. Maybe I'm just not sitting at the cool kids table at lunch though.
Anyone who has driven an LT1 or LSx motor would never make that complaint. When you make torque down low, who cares how high it revs? Revs' is some meaningless shiat.
@Feds: Yeah, heck my LS400 weighs around 3650lbs and it's a big, big car with a lot of luxury stuff in it. 'Course, with over double the MSRP, they can afford lightweight materials I guess.
Hopefully they rethink the manual transmission. I've been jonesing for a manual again, and even found myself considering an E39 6-speed 540i. I do believe this could scavenge some 5-series sales, not because it's on the same level but because it offers some of what the 5-series buyers are going for: mid-size, RWD, power. I don't care that much about the "refinement." I suspect some buyers are in the same boat. I just don't want something all plastichromed out like a 90's Roadmaster.
Once they're tooled up for putting manual transmissions in the car, how hard is it really to offer it as an option? They don't have to send it down a different assembly line, do they?
@avarno: I've never heard a compelling reason for the pushrod engines being bad. The most eloquent argument I heard was "it's a turd! It's got pushrods." Wow. You convinced me.
Looks like we're stealing our side vents from beemer, our roof line from the altima/3, our c-line from the G, our wheels somewhat from Avus, and our taillights from the altima.
Well, at least it's not a Pinto with a V8.
@Mad_Science: The operative thing here, is that with such a wide range of vehicles on the market, the consumer has choice like never before. It is absolutely imperative that people who want to buy American be given the same choices that they would have with the European marques, if you are trying to argue value and have people cross-shop.
Let me tell you, I have no doubt that the General can do this. Just look at Cadillac for instance. Now, are they going to produce a car that performance enthusiasts want to own or not? The thing that's killing American auto manufacturing isn't the engineers, it's the middle managers with no imagination, and marketing that only knows how to do the safe thing.
This is a very impressive accomplishment so far for GM. I am actually astonished at how much they have gotten -right- here. First Cadillac, and now Pontiac. Let's see what they can do about Everyman Performance with this new effort. And give people a choice to go stick with V6 or V8, like they used to in the good old days. Now that's bringing back a tradition I could really relish.
@dculberson: Pushrod engines aren't bad, but at some point your successive design iterations are just carrying over baggage from engineering choices made 50 years ago. At some point you have to step back and say "blank-sheet redesign", and shoot for something better. It's not that pushrod engines are bad, it's just that other designs can do better.
I saw a G8 turning on to Harbor Drive from Nimitz the other day... did I spot a Jalopnik review in progress?
@GoKarter: of course, we know better
@ecniv:
If it was black and we were talking to the rear-view mirror, that was us.
coming in a tad late to comment 'early' i have to comment before i read what everyone else said...
front end needs some work.. but i imagine it won't be too bad to put the holden front end on it..
very, very, very, f*ckin' (very) happy to see RWD return on something american for a 'decent' price....
hood scoops could be a bit more back.. or made that much more like the evo scoops they kinda look like... and inverted... the (non?) functional black plastic works just as well (or better) visually that way... so are the scoops functional? or just trying to make it look "sportier"?
oh, right.. forgot.. GM! bring more stuff over (no just from OZ... but europe too!..) (oh yeah... ford.. might as well get ahead of them and do it first so they realize there is a market.. i cannot say i'd buy a US spec ford... but the euro and oz versions are better than GM offers here... and.. possibly over there...??)
.. there is a market... and even if they have to wait a month or two for it to be brought over... at least offer it!!! please!
@TriShield:
And yet, if you compare the two, you realize the 5 series is seriously overpriced. Let's see:
Better materials in the BMW? I'd hope so! (I'd quibble on that one, BMW are pretty pathetic in looks a feel.)
Better performance in a BMW? Oops. Let's not go there.
Better "feel" in a BMW? Whatever that means, it better be!
Twice the price in a BMW? WTF? You crazy? I'm not paying that much for a badge!
You want Pontiac to compare the G8 to a Civic?
I like it a lot. I think it's very good looking and I like a big car. My only styling complaint is the Altezza-looking tail lights, but hopefully the aftermarket will come up with something to fill the hole. 6 speed is a must.
Really think they need to bring over the wagon. a 6.0L 6 speed wagon in black would do it for me.