don't follow the jump, my head exploded

Wasn't there also supposed to be some sort of pressure based or hydraulic operated sytem for F1's regenerative brakes as well?

Advantage being that you can store the energy for longer.

To think they accomplished all that by futzing.

@eastaboga: mine didn't asplode, but it is spinning at about 30,000RPM.

who says batshit insane performance cannot coexist with environmental concerns? this stuff rules.

this is straight-forward kinematics...
any 3rd yr. undergrad has done this... BFD.

FreeMan, eastaboga: your all wimps!

I wonder why they used 'centrifugal' force instead of 'centripetal'. I was taught that centrifugal force didn't actually exist [regentsprep.org]

@jakay11: Yeah I though it was all kinda cool. That bit about Germany's underground pressure storage system is pretty interesting stuff.

Seems to me like most of the other info is just pretty standard.

Though I love trying to confuse myself and then figure it out.

Check out their site: [www.flybridsystems.com] It required the use of a CVT, but really a simple concept, as most brilliant ideas are.

@dolo54: Centrifugal Force

@jakay11: I haven't been a 3rd year undergrad for many, many years. And I didn't do so hot in numerical analysis when I was.

@jakay11: 3rd yr undergrad? Shit, I was doing this stuff in high school. Of course, I did go on to a physics PhD...

@Evander: I hadn't heard that but the EPA (of all places) did invent a hydraulic hybrid system built into a Ford Expedition that was amazingly efficient in city driving. They felt that the hydraulic system was too heavy for anything less than large trucks.

Heres a damn interesting article about mechanical energy storage:

[www.damninteresting.com]

Chrysler did this in the 90's.. except they used a 1147lb flywheel that could spin up to 58K rpm.. and blew up a few dyno cells, and killed a test driver.

[www.allpar.com]

highspeed flywheels can be stupid dangerous. anyone who has seen or experienced a clutch flywheel explode knows what i'm on about.. that's like 30lbs at 6000 rpm.. look at the damage it causes when it explodes.. this propsed flywheel rig is total of 24KG.. so say even a 10kg flywheel.. (24lbs) at 60K rpm.. wouldn't want to be in it's path when its bearings decide to evaporate.

@saabophile2: Yeah, weight and packaging were the main constraints.

I always figure those as temporary, as most things start out too big.

From what I've read, it also has a higher potential for power.

@hwyengr: good one.

Yeah this is a whole lot of energy to be flying around under your ass. Maybe in a truck though. I wonder if it would help prevent rollovers in a truck like a gyroscope.

@Evander: Especially when you're outfitting your car with off-the-shelf hydraulic components more commonly found in industrial equipment :)

If Ford had the nutz to outfit the F-150 with such a system and get 30 mpg city they'd sell a crazy quantity of them.

@JAKAY11: Yeah, the kinematics isn't the problem. I'm wondering how well carbon fire is gonna hold up when it comes to gear teeth...

[www.epa.gov] Ford / EPA Hybrid..

pretty damn amazing.. 55% improvement in milage city.. 33mpg (40mpg in the old world) city in a Expedition!!! plus better acceleration (0-60) out of a 95kW 4cyl than the 5.4L gas v8

[www.epa.gov] (PDF)

Bringing more real-world fuel efficiency to Formula One? Please. I don't know for a fact but would wager my kids' inheritance that only a fraction of the fuel spent for any given race is burned in the race cars; think of the fans driving to the race and back home, the support truck(s), the pit crew, the fuel used by the concessionaires cooking the junk food, the sports news crews, the blimps & helicopters, etc... What's used by the race cars is pretty negligible in comparison. This is little more than a very complex joke that too many people are taking way too seriously.

This technology might eventually trickle down into consumer automobiles, but seriously; how is this helping the sport of racing? If we're really serious about conserving fuel, F1 should be banned outright and replaced with soapbox derbies. Or power the cars with hand-wound rubber bands.

@WheatKing: That is some amazing stuff. This line from that story I find equally amazing:
This hydraulic hybrid technology is projected to increase the cost of a large SUV by about $600.

"$600?! Forget it! Do you know how many headrest LCD's that'd buy??!"

I smell conspiracy. Cue X-Files music.
Or maybe they just havent figured a way to make a Harley Davidson edition of it..

Letting F1 teams do some serious development work is one of the best ideas ever. If an F1 team can get a competitive advantage from it, they're not afraid to throw around money like nothing to develop a technology to a level where it's light and reliable enough to go in an F1 car.

i went to a EPA/DOT show last year
had the hydraulic/ pneumatic " flywheel" concept ford pickup
also had a true "Electro-motive" truck... where the diesel engine drives a generator, and a electric motor is fitted to each wheel ( yes, lots of dirt traction) and it doubled a normal trash trucks mileage from 4 MPG to 8 MPG... ( this the way diesel locomotives work)
had other hybrids, etc
COOL STUFF....
its held out front of the DOT -- L'EnFant plaza in DC... check it out when it comes up...

@thunder: its not about conserving fuel so that the earth can be green and all that. its about conserving fuel so they don't have to pit in. if you can stay on the track longer than the next guy, you'll have a better chance of winning. kind of like the rabbit and the hare.

@elwood: And then theres the small problem of getting it to be more reliable than one race in time...

@thunder: If the same amout of people went to soap box derby's the only fuel you'd save is that of the race cars, I think you just shot yourself in the foot.

I'd guess and only a guess that if the technology eventually trickles down out of formula one as it inevitably will it'd save more fuel/year due to the number of cars using it than f1 cars would use in a year.

F1 cars take corners at fairly insane speeds, so that rapidly spinning flywheel should generate some interesting gyroscopic forces. I'm not sure what bearings they intend to use, magnetic ones probably won't be up to the job. Anything else will be badly worn at the end of a race. This doesn't sound like something that will ever transfer to an on-road application.

Crashes should become more exciting, though. 5kg spinning at 30,000 RPM should do a splendid impression of Barnes Wallace's WW2 dambuster bouncing bombs, right into the spectator stands.

@thunder:
You are right. During the first oil crisis in the 70's, all petrol powered motorsport was banned by the government in South Africa, to help with lowering fuel import requirements. Fair enough, I suppose.
So after a bit of thought, the racers and motorsport authorities decided on using alcohol as race fuel for all forms of motor sport. Formula Ford? Alcohol. Saloons? Alcohol. Motorcycles. Alcohol. Karts? You guessed it.
The racing continued.
South Africa having vast sugar cane fields helped. None of the cars that transported spectators to the events ran on alcohol of course. The amount of fuel saved over the course of a year was less than that used on a single charter flight used by a bunch of sports fans to fly from the Cape to the north of the country for one sports fixture. (rugby match or cricket or something like that)
Formula 1 is about going fast. It is not about economy. Didn't work the last time they tried it either. Don't know why Max is getting his knickers in a twist over this one.