I just think you guys have been using the word "pimp" wrong the whole time.

I'm not sure that the BMW/Camry comparison is the best example here.

I'd site the Merc R-Class (it's a minivan) and any Lincoln as better examples.

Just my way to help shore up the economy by spending. Keeping the dollars flowing.

Besides, mehugtree is just applying reason. Spending entire paychecks on your ride has little to nothing to do with reason or even practicality. Sure we may try to justify it by saying that we need that new set of performance tires for better fuel economy as they have lower rolling resistance or some such. But that's just reaching. We do those kinds of things because we get a kick out of it.

What's with the [sic]? There's nothing wrong with asking if giving 10k to BMW to do the pimping is inherently better than spending 10k on go-fast bits and doing your own customizing.

I think the word that your trying to use is "balling" not pimp... but then again i could be wrong.

@HDC: Plus, the tire rolling resistance has a negligible effect on MPG. Tire inflation and even air drag effect MPG more.

Well, this is just silly to even ask.

To each his own. If one can apply excess to even a simple purchase of a higher-end car then you can apply it to anything.

It's called being an individual.

@beercheck: Or did you read his statement as "pimp inherently" instead of "inherently better"?

Are pistonheads pimps? Maybe, but I'd rather rock an E39 over a bland and boring Camry any day of the year, even if the ticket price is an extra $10K, and the only thing I normally would do with one is get the groceries. Pimps like to stand out, and so do pistonheads. Sometimes they're even one and the same, though the former might have a few more girls wearing very little of anything in the back seat.

Wait, that can happen with pistonheads, too, under the right circumstances.

So, are pistonheads pimps?

We certainly are.

How about just take the bus instead? Do you really need that Camry? Isn't it really ostentatious to drive a car past a bus stop? Maybe it's a form of big pimpin' to ride the bus while conspicuously reading Camus and lugging a faded WETA bag.

Maybe it's time to retire the word "pimp" as a tired cliche.

That's sort of like saying anybody who drives anything more expensive or powerful than a Tata is a pimp.

When it comes right down to it, it's hard to justify anything that isn't basic transportation. You can try the "resale value" song or "safety" or you just like the doors that go thunk properly but you are rationalizing a product that basically massages your ego.

I prefer basic cars with good acceleration and prefer to not have all the fluff, geodesic moron tracking satellite fed internet radio activated unobtainium high definition self dimming muffler testers just don't seem necessary to me.

But when people criticize my choices I usually tell 'em "when you make my car payment, you can tell me what to drive".

And then I make fun of them because I can outrun their overstuffed butt lounge with a plastic, microwave safe, toy car. It's all in good fun.

@mytdawg: well, don't leave us hanging - what kind of car is it?!?!

@mytdawg: IAW the whole critical comment. My Dad just asked me while smirking why I needed such a fast, loud car (my GTO). I countered, "Different Strokes. Hey, why you need this Sienna Limited with all wheel drive and DVD player when it's just you and Mom?" He looked at me and asked me if I thought the landscaper did a good job on the lawn.

Hmm, I never thought of pimping that way, but I suppose it is. Nevertheless, it's a preferable type of pimping. I'd rather see somebody rollin' a bone stock 328 than a rattle trap Nova with a rattle can paint job on $10k rims.

I wonder what Richard Belzer's alter ego, Captain Hook, would have to say about it?

@Unregular: I actually find the Camry a bit more excessive, even if it's cheaper. I can rationalize a BMW, I'd rather be dead than drive a Camry. Might as well put a diaper on me and strap me in a mini van 'cause I've gone over the hill at that point.

Camry, Accord, Taurus, (mini van)... They all mean the same thing to me - I've lost my mind. But that's a personal issue. White bread middle america suburban idiots shoppin at malls and yellin at the store clerk cause bread's too expensive - ick.

I don't like what BMW's "stand for" in our excessively gluttonous society but the cars are so damn nice I'm willing to overlook it. Camry, not so much.

Following this reasoning, we should all be driving yaris's, yarii(?). Anyways, that is the cheapest new car so we should all drive them is what I get from that coment.

I strongly disagree. We have spent most of the week talking about the horrid pimp jobs that stand out. You rarely notice the cars with just some nice wheel tire combos and maybe some tinted windows. The statement of "Isn't it pimping to add something you don't need just because YOU think it's cool?" hits many of us right in our big automotive hearts. Most of us agree that the shopping cart handle on the back of a stock civic is just silly, but what about the witty personalized plates. You could strech that reasoning pretty quickly to make the roadways into nothing more than one identical car after another rolling down the road, because that would be the most "economical" thing to do. Most of us "pimp" our cars at least a little because we don't want to turn into sheeple. We do things to make our cars suit us, to make individuals out of our automobiles, to show the world that we are each different. I say pimp on, and if you offend someones idea of good taste then just let them laugh because at least you were willing to put yourself out there and (hopefully) do something original.

@Unregular: I'm gonna get flamed for this... I just know it. It's an ION Red Line.

@skaz: Exactly. Which is why I submit this.

@geeteeoh: My dad worked on the Fisher Body line for 35 years and drove VW's. He was real popular with the hard core Pabst swillin' American-type guys.

He drives Jeeps now but he's in the lake-effect snow belt. He always looks at my purchases like he's examining a document or something. No real opinion, just looks and walks away.

@mytdawg: nothing wrong with that. except the FWD, of course!

many people spend much more on their cars than necessary, thus making the corolla(and other cars of that ilk) drivers of the world the only real pragmatists. i definitely say to each his own, despite the fact that i have no respect for retarded pimping of any sort. true, the guy with the tuned bmw probably relies on that extra tuning maybe 1% of the time, tops. it's all very unnecessary but our whole economy is predicated on the purchasing of crap that we do not need.

I always viewed 'pimp' as 'outwardly ostentatious' and thought that I wasn't a fan of 'pimped' cars (stock or otherwise). Maybe I'm wrong though.

I don't follow the 'it's more than you need' logic. Is a fixed up version of that VW bus with a 911 engine 'pimp'? Because if it is, you can pass me my purple velvet hat and call me "Huggy".

@Unregular: Ya know, it just happened to come in at about my spending limit. They knocked 5K off the sticker because it was a demo (dollar a mile). Coincidence I'm sure.. ;)

wow. my dreams have come true: I'm FINALLY in the same article as Ice-T.

Pimping: maybe I'm just sensitive cuz people didn't understand when I pimped my 'Vette.

Chevette, that is. Hey! I was young! It was the '80's!! Everything was 'Euro' then!

Okay, I'm bored with the pimping conversations now. What's the latest with that Hogan kid?

@mytdawg: those are good cars. light for their power, too.

I just want to be the first to say

Pimpin' ain't easy.

Carry on.

@ThnderbltDoherty: Everybody knows a rattle trap Nova should have a built 427 under the hood. Screw the rims.

@mytdawg: No flaming for the Ion, but for sacrificing a sweet T/A with it.....hope you're wearing Nomex skivvies.

Looks like you're top of the list when you search for Ion Red Line in Yahoo Images.

@Unregular: I like it a lot. Reviewers hated the interior but it reminds me of a simpler time (speaking of Novas). Kids these days don't remember when you used vice-grips to roll the windows down because the handle broke. It's domestic - kinda, it's reasonably quick, it's fairly efficient. It meets my needs (i.e. I can afford it).

And we have a 455 Cutlass if I really want to be excessive... It sleeps a lot at $3-4 a gallon. No it's not rolling on 22's...

@beercheck: Oh dear god, that's no good. Where do you think I got the 455 for the Cutlass though?

The T/A was whipped BTW. I bought it for a grand just so I had a place to stick that motor. It was a 20 footer at best.

I like fast beaters, what can I say... I guess I'm a pimp?

@macfarlane.a: My first laugh of the day. Thanks.

But yes, honestly.. there is no "pimping" of vehicles. There are customizations, some of which are performance-oriented, some of which are aesthetics-oriented.

Everyone likes performance to a point. Anyone who drives a Geo Metro will instantly like the extra power of the a Toyota Corolla. Some people are terrified of 400hp El Caminos (my mother refuses to get back in the car with me) - they have a limit.

Aesthetics aren't a matter of hitting a "limit" because everything is subjective. I'm personally not a fan of wheels with a rubber band wrapped around them, I like some meat. Drop 'em low, raise 'em high, I don't really care. Each person has their own personal tastes, so it's hard to call something "pimp" unless you have a set definition for the word.

Before "Pimp my Ride" I always thought a pimped out car was a purple 1970s American car with 10" gold rims.

there are tiers of quality not factored into the question. you could compare a riced camry with a stock camry, but comparing a camry to a bmw is a little ostentatious in itself.

@skaz: When I was a wee lad (early 70's) we had a pink Eldorado in my town and it was a pimp mobile. It had a white landau top (diamond back window of course), a continental kit, spokes, wide white walls, and the word "Hollywood" painted across the back.

My favorite one came later though. Somebody in this town took a long 4 door Cadillac, filled in the back doors, and put a WORKING chandelier in it, swinging from the inside ceiling/roof/whatever. Weirdest damn thing I ever saw.

In the classical sense, no.
In the newer sense, yes.

To me, it's easy to justify spending money for a car with character, but not so much when it comes to luxury.

Is performance a luxury? (One of) the question(s) was do you need performance? No, but it's pretty clear if we boiled everything down to our needs, life would be really boring.

Basically, I'm claiming it's inherently better to spend money on performance and reliability than style and convenience/luxury.

Why? When the shit goes down (however you want to define that), I'd rather have the car that can get there quicker or the truck that'll cross the river than the one with the best stereo or the fanciest cow hides.

Performance and reliability have typically been the area of pistonheads, while style and luxury have typically been the area of those we mock. So, no. We are not Pimps.

@mehugtree: Mark Hamill?!

The Camry vs. BMW comment only holds water if you classify the Camry as an actual "car" and not a (very well built) transportation appliance. Otherwise it's apples and oranges, at least in terms of the enthusiast market.
We as enthusiasts purchase vehicles that meet our needs, which are different from those of the general motoring populace. Nobody chastises a draftsman or designer when they spend $20 on Pentel Graphgear 1000 mechanical pencil when a 20 cent #2 will do the job even if not as well.

If everyone was content to get merely the most basic tool for any given activity, would we have ever moved beyond using sharp rocks as knives?

In these modern days, a car serves not only as transportation, but as an exoskeleton, and is the face and body we present to most of the people we see during the day.
However, most people are wearing the automotive equivalant of a desk clerk or stereotypical suburban housewife, when many of Us would prefer to own a German athlete or British or Italian supermodel, just because cars actually mean something to us.
They are tools for our interests and in some cases jobs, and isn't a good thing to always get the best tool you can for any given task?

Answer 1: Pistonheads are only pimps if they can keep their bitches in line. If a pistonhead lets his or her bitches get out of line and the bitches aren't giving up their money then the pistonhead isn't a pimp, he or she is just a punk ass mark.

Answer 2: First a car pimp has to be defined. I like: Someone that bases their car purchasing and modifying decisions not on the direct function that those purchases and modifications provide him, but on the indirect function that those purchases and modifications provide him by impressing others.

Under that definition if someone gets a fast car for their own fun they are NOT a pimp (even if there is so much power that the marginal utility is very low), but if they get a fast car to impress others then they are.

Pimp: n - the male overseer of prostitutes.

I'm not into it.

Displaying one's wealth (via cars, customizations of said cars, big houses, jewelry, etc) is a fact of the human condition. Expensive stuff advertises one's greater success in the rat race of life, in the most basic, get-a-mate-continue-one's-genes sense. It's the same instinct that make a person wear jewelry, clothes, makeup, etc. Customizing an inexpensive car over time is a way to accomplish this without needing to shell out big bucks for a pricier car in the first place.

So why would someone get a BMW over a basic, no-frills transportation appliance? To impregnate someone.

@saabophile2: There is of course another, sadly aspect to that.

Back in the bad old days, black people, because they were black people, weren't aloud to buy houses. Even successful black business men. White people didn't want them in their neighborhoods.

So what did they do? Purchase Cadillacs, and in large numbers. Just as the urban embrace of the Escalade saved Caddy's bacon a few years ago, black folks played a big part in keeping Caddy solvent through the depression.

@no_slushbox: Totally agree with definition 2, I'm not familiar with the keeping of bitches in line though.

I just want to add that most pistonheads don't give a hoot about 20 inch rims or neon lights. Give a pistonhead and a car pimp $10K and a stock car each, and the pistonhead's car will look the same but trip the lights faster and corner harder, while the car pimp's ride will look like something out of an anime movie with lights, rims, wings, and speakers all over the place.

THAT's the difference between pistonheads and car pimps.

@jonnylieberman: Interesting on so many levels that piece of info. I just don't know what to take away from it.

Well put, Jonny. The cultural precedent that the Jim Crow-era put in play back in the first half of the century is still playing out in terms of the culture of pimping. This is not inherently negative of course, except for the fact that now--possibly even more than then--it is often paired with a disturbing lack of financial literacy. Why everyone in this country doesn't finish high school knowing what the procedure is for getting a home loan is beyond me, but everyone sure as hell knows where the Caddy dealership is and how to hook a new ride up with some rims.

HAH-! I was unfortunately *forced* once to take a Toyota Camry as a loaner once when I dropped my Bimmer off for service, as the dealer was so busy that day they were out of any BMW loaners.

It was the most ghastly, dorky, dreary, dumb, dull, high bench-seated old lady biege plastic toaster-like appliance of a car that I have ever had the misfortune of suffering to drive on a public road, and put in the same position again I might well opt for a taxi at my expense instead.

Even a beater malaise-era GM product has more going for it IMO.

i wouldn't call it pimp. It's just all about what's important to you.

I'll bet you that the average camry driver and average BMW 3-series driver (talking about new cars) have about the same overall income. BMW driver feels justified about spending more on a car because the "thump" of the doors is important to him; Camry driver probably spends his (or more likely her) excess income on tacky sh*