Jalopnik
Since yesterday's Packard Straight Eight Swap Edition (which was won by the '37 Pontiac) was so much fun, we're going to stick with Alternative Powerplant Hell for another day. All engine swaps are fun, of course, but the best ones involve stuffing an engine much, much larger than anything the car's designers ever considered. When you accomplish such a swap, you get respect; when you start with the knuckle-shredding, sanity-destroyingly tight engine compartment of a small mid-engined car (say, a Fiero or MR2)... well, that's when folks start treating you with the deference reserved for the truly mad!
We're going to pull our punches here and choose a V8 that's not only fairly small for a DOHC unit but already set up for a front-wheel-drive application. That means the engine and associated transaxles are already lined up in correct orientation in the recipient cars' chassis. So whip out $1,600 and drop a Buy It Now bomb on this 300-horse late-90s Northstar engine, then head to the junkyard for some transaxle shopping fun.
You won't be the first lunatic ambitious project builder to take on the Northstar Fiero project. Far from it- why, it's been done many times! Here's a guy who makes the whole process look pretty straightforward. You can keep repeating to yourself the mantra "GM engine... GM car... easy swap..." as you head on down to pick up this very reasonably priced '84 Fiero (go here if the ad disappears). Only 400 bucks asking price! You can go ahead and make plans to have your new 300-horsepower Fiero terrorizing your town on the very same weekend, that's how easy it's sure to be... well, actually, you might need to spend some time fixing brakes and stuff, since the car has been sitting for "5 or 6" years (probable translation: 10 or 12 years). So let's say two weekends, tops!
Isn't it cheating to swap in an engine made by the same corporation that made the car? The Northstar might even bolt up to a GM transmission that fits perfectly in the Fiero, and where's the fun there? Not only that, the Fiero came with a V6 from the factory, which means there's room for a somewhat wide engine. That's why you need to spring for an extra hundred bucks and buy this '86 Toyota MR2 (go here if the ad disappears). Dad says it's gotta go, and when Orange County dads say it's gotta go, they mean it! All we know about the car is that it "NEEDS WORK," because the owner, Steve, needs to repeat his phone number four times and runs out of motivation for describing the car itself; hey, it works on radio ads, so why shouldn't it be even more effective in print? You might think that shoehorning a Northstar into an MR2 would be damn near impossible, what with the fact that the little Toyota came with only an inline-four engine and all, but it's been done! With 300 horsepower (or more, since you might as well add supercharging to this already-hopeless challenging project), your MR2 should have the kind of power-to-weight ratio seen only on racetracks (and in car-crash stories that make the national news).
Comments
This guy ([www.v8mr2.com]) has had a long running website about stuffing a Northstar into an MR2. Lots of good info on doing it.
Oh yeah, thats a hellacious project.
The MR@ would be slightly more hellish, however.
Well hell... In my eagerness to be clever... and first... I seem to have cocked it all up.
Must. Learn. To. RTFA.
man these jdm northstar engines must be rare...
@Vintage Racer: Don't you just hate when you do that?
A GM Engine in a GM Car, So Fiero for true hell!
I never heard of a Mister 2 Northstar, so I thought it would be more hellish. Clearly owning a vintage pristine Fiero would be hellish, but the northstar swap is so pasé. I believe that post swap you would have a more drivable/ dependable car which automatically boots you out of the lower levels of hell anyway. That motor cannot cleanly fit in the MR2, so thus, my vote lands there.
Fiero - always wanted to do just that.
I have to abstain on this one. I've owned 2 MR2's, and am currently looking for a Fiero, so... conflict of interest.
Why can't I find an AW11 that looks that nice for $500 in Michigan?
I guess the MR2 should be more hellish, since if the Northstar swap becomes too much for the Fiero, it's a simple matter of changing your mind and throwing a 3.3 V6 in it., but if you start the swap in the MR2, there is no turning back.
Okay, I voted MR2. Ignore my abstention.
I hate the Fiero but it just doesn't seem right shoving a Northstar V8 in an MR2. I mean, the MR2 was a fine sports car in it's day. This unholy union is fit for two underdeveloped GM products. Kinda incestuous.
Eh, its been done.
This is more hellish:
Fiat X-1/9 with a GM V6/Toronado transaxle.
[www.socalx.com]
[www.network54.com]
You wussy's and your "documented" engine swaps. Branch out ya fairies! (no offense Chuck, I meant the other kind of fairies)
I went for the Toyota as I like the idea of creating an MR8, but I am overall ambivalent about both of these particular cars as they each lack T-tops. Bring on the T-tops. Then we'll talk.
@FLAT4-PΩWER ™: Agreed. There something not quite right about a Northstar in a MR2. Then again, this is Jalopnik where good taste is lots of flavor and better taste is even more flavor.
Nevertheless, the Fiero has more potential for random fireballs and isn't that what hell is really about?
@FLAT4-PΩWER ™: I second the inbred motion!
@LTDScott, Porcubimmer pilot:
Yeah... sucks to be me today...
So, did they sweep up all the pieces of the NSX yet? Guy still alive?
The MR2 swap would bring true ruination to your life.
Just look at that guy's outfit and listen to what's on TV. He's living PCH everyday now.
You couldn't find a LS4 out of a Monte Carlo/Impala SS? Everyone knows OHCs are for European socialists.
$10 to anyone crazy enough to try to stuff in a 8.2... ludicrous hoon of the year and beer awaits you...
Holy Hell that MR2 Northstar guy is turboing it too! Crikey that thing'll be scaryfast!
Hey! So that's what happened to my old Fiero! Thanks Jalopnik, I've been lookin' for that...
@xNissan.Freakx: No, clearly, he's a fucking nut.
Therefore, he also has my vote.
Interesting.
Of course you need to put the GM body eh?
Anything with Fiero written on it is Hell in my book. Even defeating the mighty French powerhouse.
That being said, stuffing a V-8 in the stead of a four cylinder in a mid engine body has so already been done. I take you back to an item posted here a few weeks ago.
[www.motorgeek.com]
The Fiero was a very good idea for a car car that GM inexplicably ruined while developing it. While it might be easy to swap in the engine and a proper Getrag 5-speed, it will always be heavy, poorly made, and unsporting.
On the other hand, you have the legendary Mister Two. Perhaps one of the most prominent symbols of the 80s, the MR2 was fast, fun to drive, and a popular car for modification. While fitting the Northstar might be difficult, the end result could have a minimal increase on weight while providing modern power to this 80's boy racer classic.
MR2 for the win!
MR2 for me, I have already hooned an 88 SC and thought it was a blast! But a Northstar in one screwing up the balance of the car and propelling it to new understeering, brick wall smashing heights? Oh hell yea! That NSX driver will have nothing on how many pieces the car is in much less how many pieces I will be in!
Assuming the two cars are in similar condition (which they look to be), I'm going with the MR2. Dropping a Northstar in a Fiero is almost as common as V8lvos, and although the GM parts bin conspired against the Fiero's sporting aspirations, it helps negate the hell of owning one.
We've got to think outside the box on this. I'm thinking the V6 out of an Alfa 164 for the Fiero, and a Jaguar straight six for the MR2, for reasons I'm not sure I can explain.
I always preferred the Fiero over Mr. two. It will rattle, shake and most likely lose at least 3 body panels....but that car was the love of my youth! So I vote for the 2 seat Death-Poncho!
(Why can't you find a MR2 in Michigan for $500? Two words: "Road salt". Four other words: "Two DECADES evading SUVs?")
Looking at the end result here, I have to go for the MR8 on points. With the supercharged 1.6 it was a 15-second car and could still be prone to just a bit of snap oversteer despite the design of suspension and alignment specs to try and tame it down a bit. As it's a Toyota, it'll be driveable after the swap, and GIGANTIC V8 TORQUE (grunt grunt grunt) plus much more weight over the rear wheels means you're likely to go sideways for half a block and then ass-first into a lightpole precisely one block from where you first stomped on the loud pedal. It'll kill you, but you'll have a little taste of paradise in your mouth when you go. The Fieightro? It'll just catch on fire with double the cylinders and burn down your garage. You may even live through it, but the agony of not knowing how it would've driven pales in comparison to knowing exactly how, and then losing your life/labor/time/sanity.
(Actually, a lot of the MR2 Mk 1 folks make theirs the Mk 1.5 by swapping in the terrifyingly robust 3SGTE. That can also get you up around 300-600 horses from a 2.2L 4...)
I love Fieros, I own 2 and they're reliable as any Japanese car I've driven. Even so, I'd have to go with the MR2. This is PCH, and the Northstar will fit in the Fiero way too easily. Plus there's already been a lot of Northstar Fieros.
Drop a LS7 in the Fiero, that would be a fun swap, and I don't think it's been done. I think it would even fit, but pretty much any transaxle bolted up to it will explode on the 1st launch.
The Northstar Fiero is cool. It could be made even better with an IMSA wide-body kit.
You have to vote for the MR2, the Fiero has been done too much... there are even kits for god's sake.
[www.design1systems.com]
The MR2 is possible in theory, but notice, the guy doing that swap hasn't updated the page in over a year, and it still wasn't ready. And that was after already working on it for over three years... and he's an experienced MR2 guy.
@graverobber- Same great taste, new low price!:A real man makes his own T-Tops, GravyRobber!
I went Fiero. Just because they've become the Plug n Play (briefly--till it catches fire) of mods and swaps and platforms, oh my. Plus I want information with my ads. "Needs work." Please, Dude.
@something_unique_and_descriptive: Let me be the one to break it to you.
He's dead.
It killed him.
But not before he went stark-raving mad.
That guy fitted the NorthStar into his MR2 the same way Han Solo fitted Luke Skywalker into a dead tauntaun. You yank out enough guts, all kinds of stuff can be made to fit.
Unpainted northstar GT at a show in Daytona, 1997.
[www.nytmare.org]
I was all set to vote Fiero, but the MR2's deceivingly clean... plus, who could resist the urge to PLEASE CALL STEVE PLEASE CALL STEVE PLEASE CALL STEVE PLEASE CALL STEVE?
Also:
Northstar:Fiero::302 Windsor:Volvo 240
In high school, I bought the first issue of Automobile magazine in 1985 (I think it was 85) that had a picture of the MR-deux and a Ferrari. Since I could probably afford an Mr2 in the near future, I HAD to test drive one with my dad. All I remember was that it drove like an economy car. Of course that wasn't the supercharged one. Later, a roommate had a Fiero GT, which I loved. PLUS, you can turn a Fiero into just about any exotic with a socket wrench and a free afternoon. Yes I know they're complete garbage, but my nod goes to the Fiero on kitsch value alone.
@FLAT4-PΩWER ™:
"...it just doesn't seem right shoving a Northstar V8 in an MR2. I mean, the MR2 was a fine sports car in it's day. This unholy union is fit for two underdeveloped GM products. Kinda incestuous. "
This is exactly why I had to vote MR2. GM-heap-O-shit-ness heart mounted in a Toyota build-quality shell means the likelyhood of a good-sized mechanical black-hole appearing.
Quantam vehicular failure. Or, one day you go out to the driveway and find a pile of metal which once was a car. Spontaneous disassembly.
What was the MR2's owners name and number again?
Why have a V8 MR2 when you can have a Northstar powered "ferreri". Besides, the fiero seller states right there in his ad that it's a "good project car" which could easily translate to "one wheel in the crusher."
Dude, I have it... I'm doing the Northstar swap to the Fiero, Ferrari body kit and selling this bastard to some sucka! Who's with me.. I'm gonna make a mint.
If I had a Fiero it would be a donor car for a Countach kit. I'd much rather drive an MR2 with a V8 in it, people just don't expect a sleeper from one of those as much.
@P®ide: My thought exactly! But then again, nah.
I'll take the MR2, but instead of the Northstar I'd opt for an Audi 4.2 Yeah, that'd be a project straight from the dark lord.
If the original MR2 had a four-banger, wouldn't putting an eight in there make it an MR4?
@P®ide: My thought exactly! But then again, nah; I voted Mister-Two.
Because the MR2 Northstar trick has been done already, how about an Audi 4.2 instead?
If the original MR2 had a four-banger, wouldn't one with a V8 be an MR4?
Drat. Sorry.