Jalopnik
We can hardly believe our eyes. We all were under the impression after the last set of rumors from Automotive News that we here in the U.S. would be seeing a Zeta-platformed wagon and ute sometime before the end of the decade. We'd even done our darndest trying to track down that rumor ourselves — first with Rick Wagoner at CES, then with Lutz himself at Detroit on Tuesday morning. Now, Australian auto media site GoAuto is reporting GM's main product man told them and other members of the media from down under the United States will not be seeing a Holden VE Sportwagon-based wagon. How could "Maximum" Bob Lutz leave us out in the cold like this? Here's how and why — straight from his "Maximum" mouth:
"We looked at that, but the amount of change to meet US regulations was going to be quite a lot of money...and the sad truth is, as much as some of us like 'sportwagons', they just don't sell in the US.
"How often do you see an Audi wagon? How often do you see a BMW wagon? How often do you see a Mercedes wagon? The answer is, almost never...they're just not fashionable. I can't explain why."We understand Bob, we understand — just as long as you don't kill the ute. Please don't kill the ute. And if you are going to kill the ute, give us the exclusive on it, so we can personally slap you in the face for teasing us — and so you have to watch us cry. You big mean Bavarian man. [GoAuto]
Comments
well lets see if GM is as fast bringing the ute to the states as they have been with the camaro Bob may be retired .
Boooo!
Reading between the lines, I'm sure they also see this as a cannibalistic threat to their precious crossovers.
And by the way why no Camaro news or photos screw the food and booth babes get to work and pretend to be journalists of the cutting edge type ok ?
Lutz is right, unfortunately.
I think, that with the right marketing - a car based wagon can be a huge hit. Look at how well the "crossovers" and truck based wagons, I mean SUV's have fared in this marketplace. With the right marketing - Americans will buy anything. After all, without the right marketing, fleet buyers, and people with blind loyalty to a brand - GM would have gone bust years ago.
As for BMW, Audi, and Mercedes wagons - I actually see them quite often. Of course, I live in a moderately liberal urban area. I see more Audi A6 and BMW 5 series wagons than I do Escalades. Back by where my parents live - it's the other way around.
So, why is it I see nothing but Dodge Magnums around here? This sucks, I will cry in my oats this morning...
BOOOOOOOO.
Screw GM. Wagons only aren't fashionable if the manufacturer actually calls it a "wagon." Call it a "crossover" (whatever the hell that actually means), and people will line up around the block to buy it because they're idiots.
The day someone actually convinces me that a wagon is different from a "crossover," will be the day my life has lost all meaning.
I secretly want a BMW or Mercedes wagon, however. Audi wagons aren't that odd, and Volvo and Subaru make a good chunk of their business off them. It's not that people won't buy them, it's that only smart people will, which pretty much rules out Pontiac customers.
@WarShrike: I always forget about the Magnum. I see an awful lot of them for an allegedly poor-selling product that's doomed to be killed.
Maybe it's because they don't make enough of them. I mean the C'mon, you can't compare a G8 or other american (?) sportwagon to an Audi, Merc, or BMW. It's apples to oranges. The only recent iteration from a stateside company would be comparable is the Magnum. Which wasn't really a sportwagon. It was too large, based on muscle-car underpinnings with a cheap interior, and entirely too aggressive styling.
Perhaps if companies put a tenth of the money spent on crossovers and suvs towards making a worthy sportwagon and promoting the benefits of them over crossovers and suvs then they might just sell a few more.
It's sad when I can only look at a 2004-2005 S4 Avant as the only reasonable sportwagon option to replace my current car.
I don't really understand why GM thinks us 'mericans will accept an -amino, er..uh, I mean ute, but will not accept a sportwagon.
@paul_y: same here. I've seen lots of them on the street, how are they not selling?
Bob, what if we call them "extended touring sedans" will that work? Or how about some fancy latin term for wagon? Come on Bob, throw us a fricking bone...
So his point of not selling mass market wagons is that you never see high end luxury wagons on the road which have received zero advertising effort? I hardly see any Maserati Quattroportes on the road here either, must mean that sedans aren't fashionable.
The argument for protecting sales of crossdresser utility vehicles though is valid. Does this mean we can start waiting for Aztek Mark II in the future?
What he meant to say is: "The profit margins on our SUV's are so high, we would be retarded to offer an alternative high-capacity vehicle that would cannibalize our biggest money makers. Besides, Americans Had wagons like... 20 years ago. Its soooo malaise era. How bout we put some wood grained vinyl siding on the side of an expedition. Its just like a country squire!"
Wow, he doesn't even mention the two SAAB sportwagons GM sells(or tries to sell by comparing them to jets)?
I'll tell you what's even less "fashionable" than wagons: 76 year old Swiss gasbags trying to talk about what's "fashionable."
Oh, and he's wrong. Increasing fuel economy by ONE mpg across the GM model line will increase the sticker price by "one MILLion dollars" per car (puts pinky to lips).
Oh well... and I was finally going to buy American. Guess I'll have to continue to truck the family around in an import wagon.
@EHS:
Word. I hope they read this loud and clear--I'd rather spend an extra (potential) $1k in annual maintenance on a Jetta Wagon than buy one of their sedans or crossovers, which will probably depreciate at least an extra $1k anyway.
I felt that there was more of a market for the "sportwagon" than the ute. I would love a 'mino, but the cold hard truth is that I would probably buy the wagon. Of course I currently have a Passat wagon and a deep down M5 Touring lust. I guess that just proves that I am as unfashionable as I suspected.
I just can't believe that the market for the ute is bigger. Maybe it's not and that will be the next shoe to drop.
If someone forced me at gunpoint to buy a wagon-ish vehicle I'd have to go with the Magnum SRT8. Before it's cancelled that is.
BOO! HISS!
I think ash78 hit it on the head. Why sell wagons when crossovers are the hot new sellers?
@WarShrike: @paul_y: The Magnum sold well at the beginning (pent up sportwagon demand I guess) and then had huge dropoffs in each successive year. And that's the Magnum, which is pretty much the only wagon to shed the "family guy" image due to its over the top badass styling. A more standard styled wagon like the Holden probably would fail here. I think Lutz is right on this one.
As for the BMW, Mercedes, and Audi Wagons, I live in New Jersey and I probably see only a few a year total of these. They are also probably the only wagons I see at all, except some old people driving really old Buick Roadmasters, etc. And of the tiny number of people that buy these, none of them are going to cross-shop Pontiac.
@Iron-Balls McGinty: I think the Ute will find a niche sportscar market. People will cross-shop it with the Mustang, not compact pickups. Hence why they are only bringing the V8 over. I think I read they're only shooting to sell 20,000 per year, which is fine since they are just using idle capacity at Holden plants.
You got to know when to Holden
With rear seats foldin'
You've got the cargo space
Of a small truck
You never count your beans
When you're showin' at the Cobo
There's still time enough for product change
Thank you, GM f*cks
My Canadian brothers Terrence and Phillip have written a song for Rick Wagoner and Bob Lutz.
And it goes something like this….
Terrance: Shut your fucking face wagon fucka
You're a cock sucking ass licking wagon fucka
You're a wagon fucka, yes its true
Nobody fucks wagons quite like you
Phillip: Shut your fucking face wagon fucka
You're the one that fucked our wagon, wagon fucka
You dont eat or sleep or mow the lawn,
You just fuck the wagons all day long
(farting noises) Beeerverbeeber Beeber
Terrance: Hmm!
(farting noises) Beeeverbevurp Veeeeeepurr
(laughing)
(farting noises) Beevurper Beevurp
Mountie: What's going on here?
(farting noises) vurrrrrrr
People: OOOoooooooooooooh
Wagon fucker, wagon fucker, wagon fucker, wagon fucker, wagon fucker
T & P: Shut your fucking face wagon uncle fucka (Terrance: wagon fucka)
Terrance: You're a boner biting bastard wagon fucka
Phillip: You're a wagon fucka I must say
Terrance: Well you fucked our wagon needs today
Everyone: (laughing)
People: Wagon fucka... thats
Everyone: W-A-G-O-N fuck you wagon Fuckaaaaaa tonight...
Phillip: Suck my balls!
My friends, the only reason why the "sportwagons" won't sell in the US is because of our current CAFE regulations. If you Import (or make) a wagon version of an existing sedan, it has to be classified as a car for CAFE Purposes. Thats why Ford had the Taurus Sedan (car), and Taurus X (Wagon). Thats why Chrysler has the 300 (sedan) and Magnum (Right, most are classified as Trucks!). PT Cruiser (Truck), HHR (Truck), XC-70 (Truck, yet the V-70 is a car).
One big reason for this is that Trucks achieve a lower rating, and they need all the help from those smaller CUV's and Wagons. Most of the European Wagons are still classified as cars for CAFE purposes, but the Asian manufacturers learned early not to buck the trend. Sad day all around.
@UDMAN: CAFE is a freekin joke. Regulations are killing racing and killing our choice in consumer vehicles. It's time for a revolution. Who's for storming the Bastille on this one? Bureaucracy is the enemy of all Hoons.
Most car people know that wagons (or sportwagons) don't sell well in the U.S., but we still would like the opportunity to buy one if we could.
I think I would fall into that wagon niche once I start a family...having a Holden-based LSX V8 wagon is much more appealing to me than driving a soulless SUV.
Any reason why the existing wagons don't sell in an huge numbers in the US?
And because of CAFE, we will never see one of these!
[www.seriouswheels.com]
It like when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, I say we go after those CAFE bastards.
Does Lutz spend any time telling consumers what they can have anymore? He's GM's Dick Cheney at this point: "grrrr, grrr... CAFE, grrr, grrr... Al Qaeda..."
CAFE....it all started the trend in the mid eighties when the now commonly existing stand up coffee tables were spotted in dark cormers in coffee shops all around the globe. It first seemed as a godd a idea with this high kind of table, it coold be placed in really small places because of its reduced table area. What most people did not know what that these tables were the start up for the a secret society of dark forces of the oil producing countries (OPEC) and the back then most car producing country (USA) (some say that the coffe bean known as arabica can have something to do with this).
People accepted the coffee table for its high clearence and comfortable way of not to use energy by moving to a sitting position. Smarter version with chairs that strongly reminded the visitor of an ordinary barstool but was called coffee table chair started to emerge. The user could now slide sideways and sort of semi-sit on this new chair and the popularity. What the evil forces now did was to get the ordinary human beeing to unwilingly adjust itself without knowing to this high tables and slide-sit movement to reduce energy. The easiest market was of course the United States that has suffered hard under the influence of President R. McDonald. The product was named SUV shortened for Slugging Unitedstatesofamericans Veins and was greeted by the unknowing crowd. The only proof that is left to the unblided one is the coincidence of the coffee bean Arabica, the slide-sit move, the high coffee table and the SUV (you can see this most on the slide sit move and the some what higher rear dorr with has the height of a coffee table). To mock its victims the creators called it....the CAFE....
all true...must be, can't be circumstances
When you look at the almost laughably small runs of production some 50s and 60s models had, you have to wonder how nimble modern manufacturing is. You can't know how the market is going to react until you put something out there. I agree that the SUVs and trendy x-overs are cash cows and I'd hate to think that people in the US are too lazy to bend over and rummage around in a wagon's storage area--let's face it, we all had the frustration of having stuff slide up to the back seat, go to the side door, climb over--or use a yard stick, though they always slid away too--but that is the ONLY nuisance of wagons. You get lots of storage and coolness.
And the car makers just have to take a chance instead of playing it so very, very safe.
So don't say we don't want them, Mr. Lutz. Put some out there to see. At the very least they'll end up as collectors' items.
SSRs don't sell in U.S. either, but that never stopped them.
Wagons have a sad family connotation for the older generation, much like the minivan does with the next, and the SUV with the youngest.
Wagons will eventually come full circle, crossovers and increasing gas prices are step 1.
@JanTheMan: Engrish bastard!
@JanTheMan: Where's my aluminum foil hat, dammit, they are gaining on me..
There really isn't anything quite like a good station wagon. IIRC - the last car based wagons (aside from the sadness that was at Saturn) that GM made in any volume (in america at least) were A-body Olds Cutlass Cruisers and Buick Century's.
The wagon is cool. Though, the typical Pontiac buyer wouldn't appreciate a wagon that didn't have ridiculous amounts of body cladding on it. (most pontiac owners I know have some kind of delusion that they are driving the "american bmw" - common with grand am drivers, but worse in the case of sunfire owners)
Stupid CAFE strikes again.
It really needs to be eliminated since all it does is make more trucks on the road driven by people who don't know how to drive trucks.
Nam Subaru Renge Turbo
Nam Subaru Renge Turbo
Nam Subaru Renge Turbo
Nam Subaru Renge Turbo
There, I feel better already.
I just read something about how Mercedes essentially indulges their long time US MB buyers by offering a few E-class wagons. They don't sell. Clearly BMW doesn't sell many. Only Volvo and Subaru that are essentially wagon makers with a few sedans sell any. Maybe CAFE is a factor, but buyers don't exactly go crazy about them here.
@Triborough: More trucks on the road = heavier vehicles on the road = more wear and tear on the roads.
@iantm: Someone actually believed those ads?
GM's reasoning is flawed. Chrysler sold 30,256 Magnums in the US alone in 2007. Since Chrysler is ending Magnum production in March, GM could reasonably expect that much in yearly sales for a G8 sportwagon, if not more. It's not Camry/Accord numbers, but it's a respectable figure. Would federalization of the Sportwagon really be so expensive that 30,000 annual sales couldn't pay for it? I doubt it.
Personally, I am very disappointed by this move. I really was set to buy a G8 wagon. I'm either going to depend on my mechanical skills to keep my 13-year old wagon going or I'll pick something out from the dregs of the Magnum production.
If the US doesn't get a good sport wagon we are not going to buy one.