Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks - Jalopnik Comments

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

petersterncan — Tue, 06 May 2008 19:03:53 EDT

@diegonolovich: The way I read it, the company is gonna make the money selling this dragon system and the road authority gets the electricity. So the electricity wouldn't be going to this company. The company just makes the equipment.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

And yeah, I'm stating the ridiculous because that's how the legal system gets sometimes... which is to say that laws are often used for purposes that they weren't originally intended for.

Just ask Elliot Spitzer (they used the old "White Slave Act" get him... mind you he pulled the same type of shit on Wall St. execs. to get them on buy/sell stock recommendations).

Once you legally establish that energy can be 'stolen' in that way, you can bet that some lawyer somewhere will get creative with it... and then you've got a legal mess on your hands any time someone perceives that their energy has been stolen for gain (generating energy and issuing speeding tickets), due to neglect (driving over potholes and rough pavement that slow a car down) or by design (stop signs, red lights).

And I can even see it extending to lawsuits where a someone's tree casts a shadow over a neighbours solar panel array.

And all I'm really saying is be very careful what you ask for because you just might get it... and the unintended consequences.

petersterncan

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

diegonolovich — Tue, 06 May 2008 08:45:51 EDT

I see where you're going with your comment, however there is still one aspect that you are confusing.

Let me start by saying that your argument on rubble on the ground is ridiculous. I was following you with your train of thought when you explained your point with the brake pads, but then you just took a wrong turn.

As for traffic lights and speeding tickets....come on, dont be ridiculous, Im only stressing the fact that a private company would be using someone elses money for their gain.

As for break pads, if there was a possible more energy regaining alternative, im sure people would opt for it. As for this Dragon system, not much option there. Seems like truckers will be forced to use that system.

diegonolovich

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

petersterncan — Mon, 05 May 2008 12:44:52 EDT

@diegonolovich: Then on that basis, manufacturers of brake pads should be liable for stealing and wasting energy because their products "don't work right" because the braking energy isn't being put back into usable energy for the driver's to use.

At the same time rough pavement, potholes and rumble strips should then also be illegal because both of these also slow vehicles down without giving the energy back to the driver to use.

And if you allow that to be illegal, then technically every red light and speed bump is a "theft" in the sense that you rarely recover 100% of your braking energy and then have to waste a bunch of energy accellerating(and in the case of the speed bump, add extra wear on the suspension). And that doesn't even factor in the "theft" of the time spent waiting at the red light.

And don't even get me started on traffic tickets such as speeding!

Installing this isn't theft any more than using the sun, the wind or water to generate power using solar panels, wind mills or a dam.

Anyway... is it the driver or DMV/MOT that says what goes and doesn't go on public roads? The DMV could use your same argument against you and say that "those red lights and roads belong to the DMV... therefore the energy that you generated while stopping belongs to us as well... you'll get the bill the next time you renew your registration"

Legally speaking, this is not a can of worms you want to open.

petersterncan

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

diegonolovich — Fri, 02 May 2008 07:21:46 EDT

For those of you saying that this installation could be installed on weighing stations or turns since the trucks are already stopping, it is still considered stealing the energy from the truck. I dont think it should be legal.

Consider a situation in the near future where a large amount of trucks go Hybrid and therefore recover some of the potential braking energy back into usable energy, installing this rig would therefore reduce the amount of energy recovered by the trucks.

Unless there is an agreement between the truck owners and the Dragon Station owner, or a new law, this should be illegal IMO.

diegonolovich

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

Novaload — Thu, 01 May 2008 20:14:00 EDT

I really think our household would pedal to run the tv or computer.It's immediate gratification--the same way we go out and pick up all the debris that falls out of the trees and the yard is clean and you have a pile of kindling for the fireplace.

Novaload

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

petersterncan — Thu, 01 May 2008 17:02:10 EDT

@lascauxcaveman: Could also be useful at truck stops or on any stretches of road where trucks have to slow down anyway.

petersterncan

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

Dr.Danger's got it all — Thu, 01 May 2008 14:59:42 EDT

Looks like Gizmodo is trying to usurp the story.

Dr.Danger's got it all

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

Unevolved: Whoop! — Thu, 01 May 2008 14:43:59 EDT

Conservation of Energy, as applied to this issue is just overly complicated. Assuming no energy is lost or gained in the net overall equation has waaaaaaay too many variables to account for. There's the heat from the brakes, the noise of the brakes squealing, rolling resistance (which itself is dependent on tire pressure), etc., etc. Really, the only way to know for sure is real-world application. It won't take any more energy than a speedbump, that's for sure.

Unevolved: Whoop!

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

Elhigh — Thu, 01 May 2008 14:00:08 EDT

@lascauxcaveman: None is specified. In fact, if this thing is used as intended at the docks, chances are very good that that is the lowest land around, and everywhere from there is uphill.

I can see this being halfway useful incorporated into speed bumps. Whoops, just remembered, I hate speed bumps.

You could also do away with all downhills and install these things as really big elevators, drift down and power up empty.

Elhigh

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

Elhigh — Thu, 01 May 2008 13:57:44 EDT

@NICKNICK: Have it in reverse to give the wheel an extra kick on the way down. Vroom!

Elhigh

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

ChickenDust — Thu, 01 May 2008 13:32:39 EDT

How long before the trucking companies - and subsequently the Teamsters - start asking for a cut of this energy savings?

ChickenDust

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

jimmythefly — Thu, 01 May 2008 13:01:22 EDT

I'm with yas on this. I could see them on I-90 here In WA state from teh pass all the way down both sides. Cars are braking to slow down anyhows. Of course snow removal and associated weather problems might be tough to overcome.

jimmythefly

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

lascauxcaveman — Thu, 01 May 2008 13:01:10 EDT

@Shapeshifter: Obviously, trucks have to go uphill sometimes, and have to go downhill sometimes. Thinking up ways to harvest that gravity-fueled downhill mo' could be time well spent. Just another version of regenerative braking.

lascauxcaveman

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

Dr.Danger's got it all — Thu, 01 May 2008 12:57:15 EDT

@P161911: I agree, thats why I only know the outside of the gyms. I would rather do something besides run on a treadmill like a hamster. I don't even like running. I would rather bike or something else fun.

Dr.Danger's got it all

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

Shapeshifter — Thu, 01 May 2008 12:43:19 EDT

@lascauxcaveman:

This is true.

(Of course, if it's a two-way street... :P)

Shapeshifter

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

lascauxcaveman — Thu, 01 May 2008 12:38:06 EDT

@LarsAmarynceus: @Shapeshifter: @Elhigh: None of your complaints are valid if this system is built onto a very slight downward incline (say 1ft./100ft or whatever) where the truck would be gently braking and scrubbing off that energy in the form of heat. I didn't go back and RTFA, but in theory, they could engineer it that way.

lascauxcaveman

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

P161911 — Thu, 01 May 2008 12:34:58 EDT

@Dr.Danger's got juice!: I guess this line of thinking is part of my whole weight problem. If I am going to sweat that much I want something to get DONE. I had much rather go do some sort of manual labor around the house, mow the lawn, wax the car, split fire wood (if I had a real fireplace), anything. I'll admit to being somewhat lazy at times, but if I am going to work up a sweat I want to see something other than just calories burned by running in place. I have tried using a treadmill at home, it is somewhat tolerable if I play Gran Turismo 4 or something similar while on it. I just kept walking off the side of the treadmill when the car took a turn.

P161911

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

FreeMan — Thu, 01 May 2008 12:32:32 EDT

I nominate this thread for COTD!

The more I read, the harder I laughed.

FreeMan

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

NICKNICK — Thu, 01 May 2008 12:11:43 EDT

@Elhigh: yeah, but it works better than the one where semis fall off a bridge and spin a waterwheel on the way down.

NICKNICK

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

combat chuck — Thu, 01 May 2008 12:05:58 EDT

@Ash, Pillar of Decorum: I do remember reading somewhere on the internets about a gym that had their treadmills and stationary bikes hooked up to some sort of generator/batteries to lower their electric bill. It was mostly a minor offset though, since the rows of TV's suck more juice than you could generate with an army of Kenyans jogging all day.

combat chuck

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

Dr.Danger's got it all — Thu, 01 May 2008 11:59:30 EDT

@Ash, Pillar of Decorum: Funny, I also thought of that Idea every time I walked by this huge gym with a big open window. The hundred step, tred, bike, row, whatever machines that could be turned into generators. Like a million hamsters producing power for the city.

But you know big business would exploit this outlet like crazy if it happened.

Dr.Danger's got it all

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

Dr.Danger's got it all — Thu, 01 May 2008 11:55:46 EDT

@Elhigh: Im on the other side of the country, so I didn't know about that area. The idea of the hydro and the weight reading could probably be efficient enough to power the whole weigh station added with the truck companies using biofuels recycled from all the McDonalds and other fryhouses would be a good idea.

Dr.Danger's got it all

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

readplays — Thu, 01 May 2008 11:54:05 EDT

for relaxing driving through ed begley jr's house times,
make it
dekotora time.

that was a reference to lost in translation.

i think it's clear from the multiple posts that we don't have enough information to 'bench engineer' whether this dragon power system actually produces a net gain in energy savings.

readplays

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

Ash78 — Thu, 01 May 2008 11:51:16 EDT

@combat chuck: You laugh (well, I do, too), but I actually thought a while back about turning all gyms into electrical generation facilities. All that wasted energy on gravity, pneumatic, or spring resistance and nothing to show for it (save for some of the ellipticals and rowers).

Wouldn't really work for me, as I'm a hardcore free-weight-and-calisthenics kind of guy, but your average Globo-Gym is FULL of people on esoteric machines that they use under some false impression of safety and simplicity.

Wow, that rant went a little crooked.

Ash78

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

discontinuuity — Thu, 01 May 2008 11:49:06 EDT

You could make this work by putting it on a hill where trucks are already using their brakes, so you would actually capture energy that would otherwise be lost as heat.

discontinuuity

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

danio3834 — Thu, 01 May 2008 11:49:06 EDT

I wonder how much energy could be converted by driving a semi through Ed Begley Jr's house.

danio3834

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

Elhigh — Thu, 01 May 2008 11:48:40 EDT

@dwegmull: Winner - Hydro pressure provides the weight reading. Okay, combine the two that way and I can see it as, well, maybe not a win-win, but at least a draw. The truck has to pause on the scale regardless, so making the stop do something useful would offset the pollution of idling.

Elhigh

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

combat chuck — Thu, 01 May 2008 11:46:52 EDT

They should install them in the floor at Curves locations. ZING!

combat chuck

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

Elhigh — Thu, 01 May 2008 11:46:30 EDT

I don't have to do any math at all to know it's going to cause increased fuel burn in the trucks. The only way it comes out looking as good as it does is it spreads the load out over all the trucks that carry away the freight - hundreds of them. 7,000kWh isn't that much when you spread it out over dozens of rigs.
@Dr.Danger's got juice!: Don't forget the story is talking about the thing installed at the Port of Oakland - the trucks are already moving slowly. You're bang-on with the added pollution, though.

Elhigh

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

dwegmull — Thu, 01 May 2008 11:44:09 EDT

I had this idea of putting a wind generator on the roof of my car, you know to charge batteries using, hum "free energy"... Maybe I should give the Port of Oakland a call...
Seriously, if this post was a month ago I would have had a good laugh but this is just sad.
Now if this generator is part of an existing scale system that weighs trucks as they exit the port, then they maybe onto something.

dwegmull

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

Dr.Danger's got it all — Thu, 01 May 2008 11:42:54 EDT

@Elhigh: Yeah, after reading the story at the site this does not really seem worth the effort. The trucks have to slow down to a really slow speed for this to work. The amount of fuel burned to get back up to highway speed seems to overshadow the energy produced by the dragon. That and it is causing slow downs and extra pollution.

Dr.Danger's got it all

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

Shapeshifter — Thu, 01 May 2008 11:36:38 EDT

@Elhigh:

Indeed. This is a parasitic system and it seems to have been designed by someone who doesn't understand physics.

Mind you, i haven't done any math so it might be a net gain (thanks to the power of gravity) but it's pretty suspicious. I would have to see math to become convinced.

Shapeshifter

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

LarsAmarynceus — Thu, 01 May 2008 11:36:04 EDT

Comment on Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks Isn't this simply forcing the trucks to work harder? The truck is going to have to use more gas to climb over the plates... Wouldn't this be the same thing as stealing a little bit of gas from every truck and running a generator? Maybe I'm not taking some mechanical advantage into account, but I know there's no free energy.

LarsAmarynceus

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

Elhigh — Thu, 01 May 2008 11:31:35 EDT

TANSTAAFL.

The energy to run the thing comes from the trucks driving over it. They sink a little bit going across it, and have to burn extra fuel to clamber back out. It may be only an inch or two, but it's extra fuel burned.

Elhigh

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

readplays — Thu, 01 May 2008 11:31:03 EDT

of course, if those semis are dekotoras, the needle spins backward. sorry al.

readplays

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

Unevolved: Whoop! — Thu, 01 May 2008 11:30:14 EDT

The "dragon" moniker I just don't get.

Unevolved: Whoop!

Dragon Power Station Gets Energy From Semi Trucks

Dr.Danger's got it all — Thu, 01 May 2008 11:30:05 EDT

"squeeze the Dragon plates together until hydraulic fluid gushes out"

I think you only posted this story so you can say this one part.

Gross dude....gross.

cool concept though, very efficient.

Dr.Danger's got it all