PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304? - Jalopnik Comments

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

myedsel — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 15:18:15 EDT

The Borgward is almost as rare as the 59 Taunus wagon I had in the 60's. Never saw another one until the same car showed up on craigslist 30 years later. had to pass on it, only $100, but parts and cars are non-existant

myedsel

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

donkeyassman — Fri, 02 May 2008 08:12:54 EDT

good find here boys.. the obscure-o-meter is almost off the charts

donkeyassman

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

mr.chophoppers — Fri, 02 May 2008 03:32:18 EDT

Carl Borgward had short legs and long arms, so the seating position in any of his products may not be suitable.

I am voting 304, because I find myself imagining ways in which buying the thing would make sense. I also love the 204 parts manual.

mr.chophoppers

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:15:49 EDT

I voted for the 304, a much better deal, as it comes with jumbles of extra parts, and the parts manual for a different car.

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

anthony94114 — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:07:41 EDT

WOW. My folks had a Borgward- they are mega-rare. They loved theirs. It followed their MG TC and preceded their Sunbeam Rapier, Volvo 122s & Datsun 510, if I have the order correctly.

I think my mom viewed the Borgward as a cut-rate MB. Seems odd... but what a hottie of a car.

anthony94114

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

TheTooth — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:29:23 EDT

The Borgward because it is actually tempting me down the road to project car hell. The 304? Yeah, it's French, but, "Meh".

TheTooth

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

BoomhauerTX — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:12:11 EDT

Peugot should automatically be disqualified from PCH with the inclusion of a part's manual.

We don't need no stinkin' manuals!!

BoomhauerTX

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

Elhigh — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:36:13 EDT

I can just hear that little wagon chanting in my head,
"I am the Borgward. You will assimilated. Resistance is futile."

Elhigh

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

NovaloadMissesPolar — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:27:58 EDT

@thunder: I too am suspicious of the PCH reference. After all, if the Devil announces himself as the Devil, --well, where's the hell in that? You know you're doomed.

NovaloadMissesPolar

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

CasterOil — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:15:57 EDT

The only Borgward that I can remember in Australia was the Borgward Isabella coupe of about 1960/1961, a fairly nice looking 2-door with nascent fins and lots of chrome.

No idea of the price, market, or anything. Just remember the strange name as a kid from the mid-70's.

CasterOil

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

icntdrv — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 04:46:30 EDT

My dad once had a Goliath 1100, same car different year.

Said it was one of the first functional front wheel drive cars after the Cord. However, it was prone to excessive wear and was literally impossible to buy parts for. I hope you're good a fabrication, cuz the Hansa's gonna need it.

icntdrv

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

SwapMeat — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 03:36:58 EDT

That Hansa's so hot right now

SwapMeat

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

thunder — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:53:57 EDT

Are we sure that Borgward isn't being sold by a Jalopnik commenter? Where else would the PCH reference come from?

I can't resist a two-door wagon, so it's Hansa ftw.

thunder

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

CptSevere — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:05:05 EDT

Both of these cars are just plain eurostupid, but the wagon would make a pretty sick little gasser with a straight front axle and a tubbed rear end. Fabricate a tube frame, use a blown small block Chevy. In the long run, it'd be easier than tracking down parts made of unobtanium. Oh, that's right, that's taking the easy way out. How un PCH of me.

CptSevere

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

mwoeber — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:23:51 EDT

I'll admit that a 1961 Borgward Hansa has definite PCH appeal: RWD, Wagon, when you tell people what it is they'll think you're just making up words. But the Peugeot is exactly the kind of car that screams endless project. It's only $100 so you easily get your foot in hell's door. Before long you'll be saying things like
"Well, it's a Peugeot, this part won't be that hard to find"
or
"It'll all be worth it when I'm done"
and finally
"HAVE PEUGOT FOR SALE, TOO MANY PROJECTS MUST GO HAD 10 YEARS LOT PARTS IN TRUNK RESTORED SELL FOR $$$$$$$$$ CALL MAKE OFFER"

mwoeber

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

Hotrodelectric — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:19:29 EDT

I feel almost vindicated. I mean, I love old French cars- the weirdness on a regular basis, the cost of some parts approaching Libya's GNP, the coolness factor of DeGaulle surviving an assaination attempt by way of hydropneumatics, all of it. But the Hansa was just too damn offbeat to ignore. By the way- yes, I have seen these. You don't have a career in cars without experiencing some of the more, um, esoteric choices a driver had back in the day. I mean, when was the last time you saw a Skoda Estelle convertible- ever?

Hotrodelectric

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

1600mkII — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:18:19 EDT

I always wanted to drop a porsche motor in a Borgward - and a WAGON??! Peugeots can always be fixed (as long as ya got the special friggin tools)...but a BORGWARD???!
Gotta have it!

1600mkII

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

beercheck — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:13:18 EDT

Gotta vote for the one I've never heard of. I've heard of a lot, but not that Hansa. Awesome.

beercheck

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

SLR_BlowerMania — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:11:40 EDT

I almost voted for the Peugeot because the box-o-parts almost sealed the deal. The Hansa wins by default because A. It's a wagon. B. What's a Hansa? C. Black. D. PCH shoutout!

SLR_BlowerMania

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

thatguy01 — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:01:06 EDT

Those Mexican Borgwards? Buried under concrete.

thatguy01

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

tonyola — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 21:52:40 EDT

Lots of good reasons stated here to pick the Borgward, so it gets my vote. My reason? It's the wonderfully German non-sonorous way the word "Borgward" rolls off the tongue - it's up there with Wartburg, Gutbrod, Hanomag, Durkopp, Brutsch, and Messerschmidt.

tonyola

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

something_unique_and_descriptive — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 21:11:20 EDT

Okay, I'd never heard of Borgward Hansa before today, let alone a 1100 Wagon.

I've seen a Peugeot in person, I've heard of 304s.

Borgward wins.

something_unique_and_descriptive

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

HoubaHouba! — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:48:56 EDT

Normally the Peugeot would have it but how can you fight a Borgward *wagon* fer crissakes? It's got a lot of what I like about a Volvo Amazon, combined with the utter weirdness of being a Borgward.

I'm all for saving the original drivetrain. In a box.

That puppy needs a WRX underneath it, stat!

HoubaHouba!

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

pauln — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:35:02 EDT

@staircar: THAT is a Hudson. Wiki must have messed up. Try again. It looks vaguely similar, but not that similar.

@Murilee: The 304 was sold in the US. There used to be a fair number in LA back in the day. Cute car.

pauln

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

akirachan — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:34:21 EDT

I bet everyone would pick the Hansa because it's a wagon and it's cooler.

So I picked the Peugeot. Rooting for the underdog.

And the owner says it's rare.

akirachan

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

thechoop — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:14:49 EDT

Nobody wants a Peugeot. Except for that bitchin' truck posted on Jalop last week.

thechoop

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

Spasticteapot — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:08:44 EDT

Borgward Hansa.

-Nobody's ever heard of it.
-It looks excellent.
-It's not, and never was, a silly French econobox.
-It's RWD.
-It's a wagon.

I'd put in a motorcycle engine and CVT belt-drive transmission for cruising around.

Spasticteapot

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

cats4rent — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:41:10 EDT

POS meetPOS

cats4rent

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

Bret — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:37:04 EDT

Hansa was the name of Seattle's baby Elephant the recently died very unexpectedly. I mention that because the Borgward would be a project of elephantinly hellish proportions.

That said, I'm sure an Rx-8 engine could be mad eto fit back there. Couldn't be too hard could it?

Bret

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

narf — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:34:29 EDT

Had to be the Borgward.

Hecho en Mexico, you say? My coworker's response to that when I asked Que esta un carro de Borgward? ... Es un carro, o una enfermadad?

Indeed.

narf

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

STORC — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:19:37 EDT

I NEVER EVER thought I'd be able to vote against a Peugeot EVER! But find parts for a 1961 Hansa hearse, go ahead, find ONE 1961 Hansa part.

STORC

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

staircar — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:16:46 EDT

So I just wiki'd the Borgward Hansa and stumbled across this, the Hansa 2400:

...and I was stunned by the resemblance to the '56 Hudson Hornet.

Right down to the Hudson triangle motif. Maybe it's time for a "separated at birth" series?

staircar

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

OrangeBeers9 — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:30:08 EDT

The Borgward just seems so much more... difficult. Hellish, perhaps. The German gets today's "jawohl."

OrangeBeers9

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

Murilee Martin — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:23:32 EDT

Can it be a German car is actually beating a French one in a PCH vote? Major upset!

Murilee Martin

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

fodder650 — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:20:10 EDT

Boy did I want to go with the strange name. But pew got's owner seems like he almost cared at one time.

Gotta go with car that was loved at one time

fodder650

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

PaulE — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:18:57 EDT

How can you go wrong with a seller who acknowledges that their vehicle will carry you to PCH?

Hansa FTW.

PaulE

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

Maymar - now with 37% less anonymity — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:16:36 EDT

Borgward Hansa sounds like a better name for mid-grade steak knives than a car. I'm glad we didn't include the third option though, the Fiat You're Fired.

I'd take the Hansa. Since it's in Los Angeles, wait until the next rainfall (I know, it might be a while), and then head down to the nearest wrecker and grab the engine from the first wrecked Porsche I could find (I'm going under the assumption that the typical LA Porsche driver has no idea how to handle their car, or incliment weather).

Maymar - now with 37% less anonymity

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

Euromobile — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:07:51 EDT

I was going to vote for the Borgward, but the revelation that they were built in Mexico, potentially making parts-sourcing a bit easier (for you 'murricans anyway) steered me away.

Besides, I love Peugeot 304s, so I was happy to vote for it. It's a pity about the ugly sealed-beam headlights though.

Euromobile

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

anaxomander — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:59:23 EDT

Borgward. It's older, weirder, wagon-er.
Just the name alone is worth it--it's almost a direction. Forward, Backward, Upward, Downward, Borgward...

anaxomander

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

Schm is not particularly sure what he is ranting about. . . — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:56:26 EDT

I love the Peugot, but the PCH reference is just too much to resist.

Schm is not particularly sure what he is ranting about. . .

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

lonerock — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:55:03 EDT

Any chance the Hansa has the mythical Saxomat transmission?

[en.wikipedia.org]

lonerock

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

P161911 — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:50:58 EDT

@FreeMan:Only if you can find the mysterious 4th Pep Boy.. Hanz.

P161911

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

Preferredcustomer — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:48:09 EDT

Well, the Hansa is "purported to run," so I'm going to assume everything is fine.

Also, how can you NOT buy from a seller that uses emoticons in their ad?

Borgward FTW.

Preferredcustomer

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

FЯeeMan — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:45:18 EDT

Had to go with the wagon. There's a chance the guy at Pep Boys has heard of Peugeot. Hansa? Not a chanca in He... well, there you go.

FЯeeMan

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

P161911 — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:41:20 EDT

The boxes of Peugeot parts don't even show the required water damage for this type of project.

Germany beats France, again.

P161911

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

Dave7 — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:41:07 EDT

Hansa - never seen one of those before. Interesting styling. Shame he didn't include engine photos.

Dave7

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

graverobber- Two BEER minimum — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:40:55 EDT

Borgward. Just because I'm not feeling the love for the French today.

graverobber- Two BEER minimum

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

tenbeers — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:40:37 EDT

I do need a mini hearse to park next to my mini Suburban.

tenbeers

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

arowsell — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:40:27 EDT

Hansa meet Hayabusa.

arowsell

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

TexanIdiot25 — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:37:38 EDT

That little wagon.

The Mini-Hearse.

TexanIdiot25

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

Tomsk — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:34:36 EDT

Hansa. Even the name sounds like a sort of demon that Beelzebub has to keep on a short leash.

Tomsk

PCH, European Pain Edition: Borgward Hansa Wagon or Peugeot 304?

thatguy01 — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:26:44 EDT

"The car has been sitting in my backyard...I think for the better part of 18 years. (The license plate sticker expired in 1990.) It sure doesn't feel like it's been that long."

The essence of growing older.

thatguy01