The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino - Jalopnik Comments

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

carless — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 05:16:33 EDT

Falcon Utes have leaf springs.

Oh, and a bench seat. Win!

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

RobertRyan1 — Sun, 30 Mar 2008 06:42:25 EDT

The Pontiac G8 ST is basically a Sports Sedan like the G8. The v6 versions carry more (about 1800lbs) in the cargo bed.
Holden's Utes are much more sporting than the Ford Falcon Ute, that is used by a lot of plumbers;electricians etc for it's car like ride, road holding and handling, low loading and unloading abilities and a 2,800lb Cargo Capacity.

RobertRyan1

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

avusone — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 15:02:22 EDT

I don't see this being another SSR. But Chevy actually thought the SSR would appeal to Camaro buyers. Which obviously never happened. So you definitely can question their market research.

avusone

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

Turboner — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 13:43:14 EDT

American carmakers could be more quick on their feet. Sheesh, if Audi can start and cancel models every two years, anyone can.

Turboner

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

jammadave — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 12:19:36 EDT

I like the G8ST "okay" - but I think a new ElCo needs a sunken-grille fascia like the new camaro and challenger, myself. Toughens the lines a bit. Would have done wonders for the new GTO.

Then again, I also owned and loved an SSR...
- Don't know how people could think it ugly, especially in black
- The bed was quite useful for everything but sheets of ply - moreso with the lid off, a simple two-bolts affair. I'm an arcade and pinball collector.
- And my 2004 wasn't nearly as underpowered as people were saying - just overweight.
...so I'm an obvious shill for the retro nods....

Damnit. I want another SSR. (And lots and lots of free gas.) I'll reserve judgment on the G8 ElCo for a test drive. =0)

jammadave

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

Packa — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 12:05:23 EDT

A link to the two Baja p'shops:

[forums.nasioc.com]

how do you post images and links inside these comments?

Packa

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

Packa — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 12:03:01 EDT

~
We actually own and drive a Subaru Baja -- which is quite a confession here on Jalopnik, so go easy. It's the perfect car for us -- we're solidly in the Home Depot/pull-behind-trailer-fearing demographic. Plus we were able to get it in the nearly monochromatic Black over very dark gray... it almost looks sexy.

Who am I kidding... it belongs to my wife and I, but it's my car and I'm the one who likes it. No, our other car isn't an Aztek.

But getting back to Pontiac's situation. let's just say that the Ponti-Camino has a pretty good chance so long as GM doesn't give a gorgious yellow over silver introductory paint job, doesn't give it "enough lower-body plastic-cladding to refloat the Nina, Pinta and Santa Maria"® (my registered and copyrighted description of the Baja), or fail to give it the marketing it will most certainly need.

The Baja, of course, might fair better in today's fuel climate -- that's another strike against the Ponti-Camino.

Here are two p'shops I did of Baja's that would definitely have faired better in the market -- less visual desperation:

[img][www.modernvespa.com]]

Packa

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

Maymar - now with 37% less anonymity — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 01:40:24 EDT

@sos10: If I could afford a new car (or, well, any car), it'd be on my shortlist. It fits my needs about as well as anything I can think of.

Of course, thinking beyond us, previous buyers of any remotely performance oriented truck could end up in this, right? It's a small, but worthwhile leap from a Colorado Xtreme or a Tacoma X-Runner (I think that's what it's called) to one of these.

Maymar - now with 37% less anonymity

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

carless — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 01:31:51 EDT

I don't think an economy-minded engine would make any sense in the G8ST. Other than the V6. This thing will always cost more than a similarly equipped full-size truck, so what would be the point?
What chevy ought to do is hack the roof of of the HHR Panel van and make that their elco. 30mpg, 7ft bed, and all the visibility you could ask for! I actually tried to photoshop this but the results are too embarrassing to post. However, it proved to me it would be a great idea.

carless

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

JONNRG — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:37:05 EDT

@Uncle_Bo:

Yes, global. GM gets a new market entry, in a new segment, with no investment. They already federalized the sedan and they already build utes for the ozzies. It's not like they have to sell half a million before they break even.

It's like Toyota did with the original Scion xB. The car already exists, and it looks like nothing else on the road. It will have fans and haters, but at least it gets noticed.

JONNRG

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

WilliamG. — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 23:26:56 EDT

I see so many great ideas expressed here, but people are forgetting one important thing. This is GM we're talking about. All they have to do is build vehicles that people want, and they haven't been able to do that on any kind of scale or consistency since the first gas crunch... why should they start now?

WilliamG.

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

3304HL — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:36:38 EDT

I understand the tooling for the perky little twin from the 2CV is availible quite cheaply as well...

3304HL

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

sos10 — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:11:13 EDT

@Maymar: So, who is going to but one here?

sos10

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

LandofMinos, That pissed and muted look — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:56:09 EDT

@Lounatic: Dontcha love how in the Ford Falcon ute homepage, all utes have 6spd Manual as standard and the auto as an option.

LandofMinos, That pissed and muted look

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

Maymar - now with 37% less anonymity — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:51:18 EDT

@Smells_Homeless: Exactly, the few Jalops who do buy one will cover the money spent on developing the G8amino. Even if they don't succeed, they don't have to worry about failure.

Now, one with the upcoming 4.5L diesel, or a direct injection Ecotec could be pretty cool also.

Maymar - now with 37% less anonymity

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

Lotucris — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:40:16 EDT

I also have a good feeling that this car is going to cost more than GM anticipates, seeing as the U.S. dollar is becoming less and less valuable each day, intern costing more to import from an Australian source.

Lotucris

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

Lotucris — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:38:48 EDT

I love that the reason they canned the "G8 sport wagon" was a result of sales forecast's not being strong enough for wagons. So what do they do? they decide to create a vehicle that has no current American forecast at all! a car pickup/el camino thingy. I guess we will see how it sells, seeing as we 'actually' have no clue.

On a personal car biased side, I think its a pretty cool idea, especially if it can be flexible with a 4, 6 and 8 cylinder engine.

Lotucris

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

theeastbaykid — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:23:36 EDT

Yeah, I checked the Holden site a while back, and spotted a base V6 ute with a manual six-speed and steel wheels. Trucktacular!

theeastbaykid

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

tad49 — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:12:34 EDT

For those interested, the 4 door pictured by Ben Wojdyla is the previous VZ model, Holden hasn't released a 4 door VE ute yet.

tad49

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

A strolling player — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:09:54 EDT

@nick2ny: Yes, because the V6 in the Mazda CX-9 has such enormous trouble pulling its 4312 lbs around.

Wait. No, it doesn't. My mother owns one--the 20-less-horsepower 2007 model--and it's surprisingly quick. The engine never has to put forth much effort to get it moving. The fact that el G8 Camino weighs probably 4-500 pounds less says a V6 should be absolutely fine.

A strolling player

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

Smells_Homeless — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:24:49 EDT

Plus, what are the additional costs to GM to sell this car here? Crash testing and emblems? Everything else is already taken care of with the G8.

Smells_Homeless

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

Smells_Homeless — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:23:21 EDT

@KaiserM715: As a matter of fact, I worked as a delivery driver for NAPA for a couple of years and my vehicle was an 84 ElCo, complete with stupid hat. It was perfect for that job, even with a 229ci v6. With some smart truck-oriented advertising and a value package (I'm thinking the return of window cranks here,) every paint contractor and landscaper would be all over this.

And someone up there ^ mentioned the SSR. I don't think it's a fair comparison. The SSR didn't have a real bed, was initially under powered for the affluent buyers it went after, and was ugly as crap.

Smells_Homeless

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

Bucket UncleBo Head — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:16:13 EDT

I think the term "sales success" needs to be viewed on a global scale. I don't think GM is expecting this truck to set sales records or even match the demand of the El Camino back in the day. That ship has sailed and took with it cars like the Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme and Chevy Monte Carlo, two best selling cars that were supported by solid business cases in their day.

GM has to look at this from four perspectives, all global:

1) Amortize development and production costs on a more compressed timeline compared to their typical cars and trucks.

2) Generate floor traffic and mindshare for the Pontiac brand, which has been mostly forgotten by 21 century car buyers, esp in key markets like California.

3) Increase and maintain factory production numbers for the Holden plant in Oz. The Holden brand has been dropping in sales consistently for years, as has Ford Oz. Imports comprise 75% of Oz new car sales. Exporting the truck and the G8 helps keep the Holden factory running and cash coming in the door.

4) Validate GM's business strategy of developing and producing cars for a world market instead of their traditional "local cars for local markets" view. Leverage the platform engineering concepts to drive down costs and improve market share and profit margins. VW does this well with Audi, Skoda, SEAT and Porsche.

GM simply does not need to sell a lot of G8 trucks to consider their strategy a success. And if they can quickly move out the Ute and move in the Wagon if that's their plan, even better. The age old metrics for automotive sales success need to be redefined. It's 2008, not 1978.

Bucket UncleBo Head

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

lascauxcaveman — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:18:38 EDT

Todd is making identical points I made in a comment here a couple Saturdays ago. (I didn't think of the "sell Camino first, then wagon," part, but we were talking mostly about the name at that time anyway.)

If a tiny market like OZ (less than 1/10 size of the US) can make these things pay off not only for Holden, but Ford as well, why the hell would they NOT be successful here, other than the vagaries of the US$/AU$ exchange rate? True, Aussies are used to paying more for vehicles than Yanks, but c'mon, they're bringing the G8 into a much more crowded (albeit larger) field: performance sedans. They brought the GTO over, and although mostly unsuccessful, most observers will blame the car's appearance, rather than performance or price; which pretty much everyone agrees were excellent.

The only way this could possibly fail is if they do something inexplicably and mind-bogglingly stupid, like making it a Pontiac instead of a Chevy.

lascauxcaveman

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

smokyburnout — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:15:14 EDT

@htrodblder: my local Pontiac dealer actually emailed me just this morning to tell me they have a G8 in the showroom...

smokyburnout

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

KaiserM715 — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:12:11 EDT

With a V6 (or diesel four banger), this would be perfect for lawn maintenance guys, people who bought Ridgelines (wait, I take that back, that is too much of a blow to the Ute), auto parts delivery (or any other delivery service, for that matter) and the like. Who needs a 3/4 ton to haul around a lawn mower or a couple of bags of mulch?

KaiserM715

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

kleinlowe — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:02:34 EDT

To be successful, the El Camino needs a two-prong marketing approach. The first is as a halo vehicle; a mid-life-crisis sport truck with a big engine and speed. The second is as a light truck with good gas mileage and a low loading height for contractors and business buyers. If GM fails in marketing either the Ute will be back to being aussie-only faster than you can say 'kangaroo bars'.

kleinlowe

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

htrodblder — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:57:15 EDT

Speculation on the success of the G8 GT "call it anything but just dont call it late for dinner" is like all the discussion on the Camaro and the Challenger. Since none of them are in showrooms yet, Id call it:
"Premature Automotive Ejaculation Syndrome"

htrodblder

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

VonPinto — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:55:36 EDT

@RoyLFuchs:

I'm well aware of the unibody front-drive pickups that were introduced in the early-mid 1980's, but I meant to say that I can see how revisiting this concept now would probably yield higher sales than what was seen the first time around. The people building the majority of pickups these days (Are you listening GM, Ford, and even you Toyota) seem to have all but given up on the compact pickup market, and it's too bad. Not everyone needs a 4-door truck with leather, a DVD-player, and 11 cupholders...

VonPinto

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

Blackax — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:52:03 EDT

@ nick2ny: that would make sense if a normal g8 didn't weight 4150 lbs.

4150lbs / (v6 power) != efficiency

Too bad the G8 is not 4150 lb, its 3946 lb with the 6.2 L

Blackax

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

sos10 — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:48:14 EDT

@Mad_Science: it's not about liking it or not, but if it makes sense... if I like this car? not really, it doesn't live up, design wise, to the original.. power wise, it is fine, but that's the easy part.

sos10

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

elwood — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:43:15 EDT

@weatherman: An El Camino with ice and a bunch of PBR in the bed sounds really fun right about now.

And I hate to say it, but the El Camino is more of a Jalopnik thing than a real world thing. Just because readers here claim that they'd buy one isn't indicative of success in the actual market. Hell, even I'll admit while I think the idea is really cool, I just wouldn't be in the market for one as a daily driver.

elwood

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

Mad_Science — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:41:26 EDT

@sos10: Dude, you like anything?

Mad_Science

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

NovaloadMissesPolar — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:38:59 EDT

I think that's a sound strategy. Unfortunately GM and others feel they can only build sure things with big, permanent market chunks. There's no such thing. But this approach--hey, guys, how about some special editions--some built in test marketing?--might appeal to their wizened little hamster hearts.

NovaloadMissesPolar

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

Bo Darville — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:32:44 EDT

@Ben Wojdyla: It's not that I don't think it can be done, it's just that those 2 extra doors completely wreck the proportions. I think that macho swagger is a huge part of the appeal, and it is just lost on the 4-door.

My point is not that it would be better as a 4-door, just that 2-seaters don't sell well in the U.S..

Bo Darville

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

rexplex — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:32:14 EDT

About to purchase a "fixer-upper" of a house & I know that neither the Passat nor the Escape will meet my needs for Home Despot runs.
I need a fuel effecient vehicle that can carry sheets of drywall.
It really only needs to seat two.
I don't need 4WD.
When I was a boy, my dad had a string of Datsun / Nissan trucks. He built a false floor at the top of the wheel wells so that he could have 4 x 8 sheets in the bed.
The closest thing on the market today is a minivan w/ the seats removed (My sister-in-laws solution) but I really would prefer a trucklet.

rexplex

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

Mazda Plainview — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:31:28 EDT

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino...

It's a GM product?

Mazda Plainview

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

Morphine — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:16:54 EDT

Word.

Morphine

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

oldskoolparts — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:14:47 EDT

the only people who will be able to afford it in any varations while be baby boomers with some real disposible income left, while the rest of us hunger for tata's and other sub 10k cars that meet our real needs and sigh, income levels

oldskoolparts

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

sliderule — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:06:37 EDT

@Ben Wojdyla: there it is

sliderule

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

sliderule — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:05:37 EDT

I'm certain I saw a 4-door version of the UTE somewhere. If that exists, then that's the direction they should take. The Falcon UTE (if i can call it an UTE) has four doors and a shortened box. Even extended cab pick-up trucks are too small for all crap/people we seem to have to haul around.

sliderule

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

Goety — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:04:35 EDT

the Mustang-esque front of the Falcon XR6 Turbo Ute would make a neo-Ranchero worthy of competing with the Pontiac el Camino. Bring 'em on, let the market decide.

Goety

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

RoyLFuchs — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:03:20 EDT

put some retreaded 50s on the back,some primer,side pipes and a surfer foot gas pedal and it would be puuurrrfffeeecccttt

RoyLFuchs

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

thedoubleday — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:03:17 EDT

As much as I like the idea of the G8 El Camino, for some reason I keep thinking of the Chevy SSR and what a pillar of automotive success that was.

thedoubleday

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

smokyburnout — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:02:37 EDT

@VonPinto: in the Scion booklet i picked up at the auto show, they have a picture of a new xB-amino that someone actually built... Ford and Chevy also have compact FWD car-trucks for the Mexican market...
i prefer my car-trucks to be RWD, though (i think i could actually get better milage in a G8 El Camino than i can in my Cherokee...).

smokyburnout

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

Andrewpetty — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:00:28 EDT

I agree. GM already has the product. Why not set it on the lot and see if it sells.

Andrewpetty

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

Ben Wojdyla — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:59:32 EDT

@Bo Darville:

4 doors are just a crash test away.

Ben Wojdyla

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

graverobber- Two BEER minimum — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:58:31 EDT

I think this will sell in approximately the same numbers as that Lincoln pickup truck.

graverobber- Two BEER minimum

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

RoyLFuchs — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:57:50 EDT

@VonPinto: It struck about how much sense a 4-cyl, front-drive compact pickup would make at that time

Can you say Dodge Rampage

RoyLFuchs

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

Lounatic — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:56:52 EDT

@VonPinto: [www.ford.com]

Lounatic

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

Lounatic — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:55:16 EDT

@Goety: [www.ford.com.au]

Lounatic

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

bobdobbs — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:53:54 EDT

Come on, Jalops, "El Camino" is a punch line and you know it. The setup involves kegs of beer and a mullet-headed driver. Stop the charade.

bobdobbs

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

pryndyl has gone Welsh — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:51:36 EDT

Ford has the Falcon Ute up to the FPV Ute and all only 2 seaters. Also the Fiesta based Courier/Bantam FWD hauler.

pryndyl has gone Welsh

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

VonPinto — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:50:21 EDT

I did a Photochop of a Scion xB-chero about three years ago, just as something to keep me occupied during an especially long shift working the desk at the library. It struck about how much sense a 4-cyl, front-drive compact pickup would make at that time (and this was when you could still get gas for less than $2.00/gallon). Even more sense now...
I really think that there is room for the G8 ST in the current market...

VonPinto

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

pryndyl has gone Welsh — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:48:47 EDT

2 seat performance car or 2 seat performance truck?

I think I'll take something my clubs will rattle around in the back of!! Sometimes you need to hall more than a...

pryndyl has gone Welsh

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

Goety — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:48:11 EDT

Does Ford of Australia have any coolio Utes that can be brought over as a neo-Ranchero?

Goety

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

sos10 — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:48:03 EDT

It's the wrong car for the wrong time, it will find some buyers, but very few.

sos10

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

sneaky_j — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:45:14 EDT

Does the fact that it's badass count for anything?

sneaky_j

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

Bo Darville — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:41:31 EDT

Honestly, the biggest problem I see with a new El Camino is that it only seats two. Trying to add more seats will screw up the proportions (Baja anyone?). But really, how many 2 seat pickups do you see anymore? Most of them are owned by businesses.

Bo Darville

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

Hoser Dave — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:40:33 EDT

Needs to become the official vehicle of Kentucky to become popular. Move over Vette, the Camino is punchin yer wife and drinkin yer shine!

Hoser Dave

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

weatherman — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:39:24 EDT

That's an interesting theory, but belied by the fact that the vast majority of people who buy trucks don't actually haul anything anywhere. The only reason to buy an El Camino is to full the bed with ice and PBR.

weatherman

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

nick2ny — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:38:25 EDT

that would make sense if a normal g8 didn't weight 4150 lbs.

4150lbs / (v6 power) != efficiency

nick2ny

The Problem With The Pontiac G8 El Camino

RoyLFuchs — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:38:02 EDT

it needs to be jacked up in the rear,glass packs and a pony keg in the bed.

RoyLFuchs