PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy? - Jalopnik Comments

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

DSwig — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:11:05 EDT

Lou Brero is building a V12 XJ-S which may appear at the May 10-11 Altamont race...but he's already a hero...

DSwig

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

johnfritz — Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:44:12 EDT

There is hardly anything on the Internets that scares me. That dune buggy scares me.

And there's something funny (not funny ha-ha) going on with its front wheels too.

johnfritz

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

xjs — Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:40:35 EDT

As the former owner of an '88 XJ-S V12, I've got to go with the Jag. There's no hell like Jag hell.

Bought it in '96 with the insurance proceeds from my totalled '72 Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow (that's another story entirely.) With frequent breakdowns, $1200 tuneups and monthly trips to the shop, I soon realized I could lease a brand-new Mercedes for the amount of money I was dumping into my nearly 10-year-old Jaguar.

I must say, the women loved it though...

xjs

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

GreenVanMan — Sun, 30 Mar 2008 04:11:24 EDT

@carless: is that a walki?!?!?!
those kick arse.

GreenVanMan

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

carless — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:31:40 EDT

I love Jag depreciation. XJS gets unloaded just dirt cheap. I did a quick search over the rest of the Phoenix craigslist and found several deals.

An '87 in "ver good condition, little interior work needed, needs brain." - $1000

Another '87 sans engine or trans: $500

For a false sense of security, a one-owner '89 with 50k original miles: $8900

They really are pretty cars, and considering the ease of putting any american small block drivetrain in, how bad could it be? Just remove all the wiring and start from scratch. Headlights, ignition...what else is there? To stay under $500 you're going to need to have a free or dirt cheap engine on hand...

carless

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

mr.chophoppers — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 13:39:05 EDT

Racing luxury cars is always always always cool.

mr.chophoppers

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

Turboner — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 13:27:29 EDT

After having lots and lots of fun helping a coworker with maintenance on her '88 XJ6, I can only imagine how little sleep I would get before grid with the "Jaggernaut."

BTW anyone need a Haynes manual for an 88-94 XJ6? Drop me a PM. Oh, wait, this isn't a message board.

Murilee, can we get a Jalopnik Forum/msg board up stat?

Turboner

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

crankcase — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 12:06:53 EDT

The Jag, no question. A V-12 and the Prince of darkness, beats a buggy that looks even more dangerous than the Hyabusa kart from a few weeks ago.
Now If we were talking serious carnage..............

crankcase

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

Murilee Martin — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:53:14 EDT

@sneaky_j: I think a V12 at each end of the dune buggy would give you a nice safe AWD setup.

Murilee Martin

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

sneaky_j — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:51:24 EDT

With 2 engines available and the aforementioned welder, you could have a V-24 dune buggy (with Lucas electronics). Awesome.

sneaky_j

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

BigJames80 — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:50:45 EDT

The backwoods redneck in me says dune buggy, but I don't think that an Olds Tornado driveline is hellish enough. My vote must go to the Jag. My heart says buy both and have a British headache, and a V12-powered chariot of death. Field both at a LeMons event and live forever in the annals of hoonage. Mmmmmm....V12 dune buggy.

BigJames80

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

Incredible — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:43:46 EDT

Aaaarrrggggg....I tied it. Oh well, my love for Jags is as deep as my love for V12's.

Incredible

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

Schweppes — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 06:10:50 EDT

I'm impressed by how close these are. Jag's complexity is enough to make it my choice.

Schweppes

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

CptSevere — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 01:57:17 EDT

Gotta go with the dune buggy. The Jag is an electronic nightmare, but a Cad 472 is stone simple. It would be just the sickest thing yet. Put wheelie bars on the back and a front bumper made out of 90 pound railroad track and it may be drivable. barely.

CptSevere

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

Murilee Martin — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:51:22 EDT

@Evil-Jeremy: I'm pretty sure nitrous is allowed at LeMons, as long as you can squeeze your system cost within the $500 budget.

Murilee Martin

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

Evil-Jeremy — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:33:17 EDT

The XJ-S is secretly one of my favourite Jaguars.

A dune buggy? Too common, too pointless and too high a center of gravity to even consider bringing it on a racetrack.

You could make that XJ-S pretty damn fast too. LeMons prohibits going the Top Gear nitrous route, but strip all the interior out, change the exhaust and intake and give her a tune and you're looking at a winner.

I would have that XJ-S and try to make it a daily driver though. It wouldn't be reliable, but it would be cool and I'd be happy and feel (quite unjustifiably) classy cruising around in it. It would be a good fun car to have if I lived in an area with reliable public transit. LeMons is sweet, but they have a strange way of destroying your car so you sort of want to enter something ugly. Something like a fox-body lincoln, something that you kind of hate so you don't mind mixing it up a bit, and if it gets crushed, it gets crushed.

Evil-Jeremy

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

thunder — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 23:07:03 EDT

I cannot believe these two are tied up right now; my first thought was that this had to be the most lopsided pairing yet. A Jag against a craptastic dune buggy (that's never seen a dune in its pathetic life)?

God save the Queen!

thunder

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

something_unique_and_descriptive — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:02:50 EDT

@SundaySunday: Can we get a COTD part deux?

something_unique_and_descriptive

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

milo_carrera — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:33:45 EDT

I am drawn to the batshit lunacy of the dune buggy, but consider myself more dignified than that. So obviously, I voted Jag, with the intention of welding the two V12's together end to end and moving the driver seat back a tad. Batshit...but with dignity.

milo_carrera

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

evil2win — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:03:21 EDT

The dune buggy. Weld up a roll cage, strap yourself in and you've bought a one-way ticket to a carnival of fiery plastic death.. the insanity needle is in the red. The Jag would most likely leave you stranded whereas the buggy would rocket you to hell in fiery ball of metal plastic and rubber! both cars may end up with a DNF but only one could leave an indelible stain in the process.

evil2win

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

Stuntdriver — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:14:09 EDT

if you choose the jag.. your life will be a constant headache...but at least you will have a good looking sort of working v12 car...

at the other hand.. you can fix easly this fine example of a "redneckmobile", choosing a wide variety of engines...

with the jag you will look like an oldfashioned gentleman...and some day maybe in 20 years you will have a clasic...with the buggy... you will look like one of the banana splits... it will be fun but you will look ridiculous...

so my choice is the "Shaguar"..

Stuntdriver

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

discontinuuity — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:48:20 EDT

The Jag "needs engine overhaul," meaning that the heads have been taken off. I'm sure it's no problem that a little tuneup couldn't fix.

I really want to see that Buggy race. All you need is a giant NASCAR-spec roll cage in the passenger compartment, and maybe a nomex race suit. But only if you're a coward.

discontinuuity

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

smalleyxb122 — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:26:19 EDT

If that Jag was closer, I'd buy it. I just can't pass up a V12 for $500. That's how I ended up with my '87.

($500 not running, but it fired right up when I plugged back in the fuel pump)

smalleyxb122

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

Village_Idiot — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:24:55 EDT

Blighty Rules!

Village_Idiot

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

SnowBot — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:24:09 EDT

good lord, i'd pay to see someone try and drive a vw dune bugger with a 500 cid monstrosity belching flames as it tries to launch the whole assembly skyward, as one piece or several... truly a Jalop staff car if there ever was one..

SnowBot

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

Murilee Martin — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:58:22 EDT

@Spasticteapot: It was amazing how the normally bulletproof Quadrajet kept having problems on the zebra-striped SBC-powered Jag at Thunderhill. Is there a Joe Lucas Reliability Distortion Field under the bonnet?

Murilee Martin

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

Spasticteapot — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:53:42 EDT

There are two main problems with the buggy.
1. It's so incredibly hoon-tastically stupid that it'll never be allowed to race. And even if it was, you'd kill yourself anyway.

2. The car could be completed by 95% of all 3rd-year high-school automotive shop students.

On the other hand, the Jaguar would be a glorious car to drive, and the XJ- series has already made appearances at various other LeMons races, where, despite the removal of all things Lucas and a carbureted American V8, they often fail in a spectacular fashion anyway.

Spasticteapot

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

JoeWoodsprite — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:33:42 EDT

The dune buggy will kill you. I just don't think that is a very good light at the end of the tunnel.

The Jag on the other hand would be the perfect racer. Dump the EFI for a carb. Sand cast your own intake manifold. Go with an aftermarket ignition system (those are easy to find for a V12). Boom, no more electrical gremlins.

JoeWoodsprite

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

BoydCaballo — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:33:06 EDT

Wait a minute... Murilee, are you gipping me out of one of them there fancy dress shirts you make, or am I (gasp) simply thinking like you? I sent this Jag over with a couple other doozies last night as I persued the 'list for cars to dream of/have nightmares about. If you're going to hit me later with the goods cuz you have a full match for me, then sorry. If not, then I will chant a curse on you that involves Phoenix P.M. rush hour traffic in July, loaded cattle trucks, a 1983 Buick Regal with no a/c, no muffler, 15 broken vacuum connections, and a turbo with bad seals.

BoydCaballo

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

SundaySunday — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:24:44 EDT

You'd be a legend of the Lemons with that dune buggy all right. With any luck, the teams would come back to pour a Dos Equis on your gravesite on the anniversary of the race.

SundaySunday

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

Kelly — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:21:55 EDT

Jaguar, no brainer.

First, four worthless, one blurry, one overexposed pictures showing nothing but interior pain.

Second, it's in Surprise, AZ. As in surprise, it's a complete disaster!

Kelly

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

BMWCARL — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:08:34 EDT

how much aluminum is in a 91 jag? at .65/lb, it might be worth it just for the scrap

BMWCARL

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

Schm is not intrested in buying Hummer either. . . — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:02:21 EDT

*now

NEED EDIT BUTTON!!!!

Schm is not intrested in buying Hummer either. . .

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

Schm is not intrested in buying Hummer either. . . — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:01:44 EDT

Teh Jag, I mean, come on! No contest.

Not, we just need to find some Tata badging aroung here somewheres. . . .

Schm is not intrested in buying Hummer either. . .

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

Smells_Homeless — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:01:10 EDT

Have to go with the Jag on this one. With the buggy, all you have to do is carry around a bag of Hershey bars to feed that stuttering freak.

Smells_Homeless

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

Sth002000 — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:58:23 EDT

Two V12s? That is like 24 total Vs right?

Sth002000

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

Armand Bengle — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:45:34 EDT

I was going to go with the Jag XJ-S because, well, it's an XJ-S. It's got Lucas electrics and all the stuff that makes people fear old British cars, but it lacks one of the things that make old British cars fun: Something like an MG Midget or Triumph Spitfire can be held together with baling wire and happy thoughts, but an XJ-S is going to require an entire garage to keep it going.

But then I saw a dune buggy with a Toronado drivetrain. Good lord, that may be the most Jaloptastic car ever built. The very thought terrifies me. It might have balanced handling, though, in the sense that the massive oversteer inherent in such a vehicle can be counteracted by hitting the gas, thus lifting the front wheels off the ground. Go into the turn with the rear wheels sliding, hit the apex when the car is approximately neutral, and then power out with the front wheels barely touching the pavement. You'll either be very fast or very dead.

Armand Bengle

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

NovaloadMissesPolar — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:44:12 EDT

Also, I want to nominate "awe, fear and pity" inspired in spectators as a new designation for certain vehicles. Like the ones here.

OH, it's a Jag AFP edition.

Of course it could be FAP but that's old. And PAF is awful if you've ever been near an HR dept.

NovaloadMissesPolar

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

Andrewpetty — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:42:35 EDT

LeMons entries have to be certified for sale in the US at the time of manufacture. I'm not sure the Dune buggy qualifies just because there are some beetle parts in there somewhere.

Andrewpetty

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

NovaloadMissesPolar — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:42:21 EDT

Want to be a dignified legend? Jag, of course.

The King of Hoons? The buggy. (High end lap top for $450? He really is nuts.)

Failure is painful. But if the failure is spectacular enough, the pain lasts but a moment. The fame lives on forever!

NovaloadMissesPolar

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

RoyLFuchs — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:38:41 EDT

you would not even need a adapter.jags came with gm turbohydromatic autoboxs

RoyLFuchs

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

something_unique_and_descriptive — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:35:41 EDT

Since the idea is to be able to enter LeMons I'm going to have to go with the Jag. I have my doubts about whether the buggy would be allowed to enter. It's definitely more insane but I'm guessing there would be "safety concerns" from their insurance company.

something_unique_and_descriptive

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

graverobber- It says Loud Pipes Save Lives — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:34:41 EDT

Jag. Effing Nightmare. Nuf said.

Perfect car for LeMons if you want to tow it to the pits, fill the trunk with ice and serve beers out of it.

The dune buggy is a freak show, but with so few moving parts how much could you screw it up?

graverobber- It says Loud Pipes Save Lives

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

RoyLFuchs — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:32:32 EDT

how about hooking/chaining/jw transdapter the jag v12 to the oldsbuggys transaxle.

how dartlopnik would that be?

RoyLFuchs

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

P161911 — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:29:09 EDT

Two cars, both just begging for a big ol V-8 to be put in them. Had to go with the dune buggy for the pure insanity. I think this is the same one that was for sale a while back with the engine. Looks like someone bought it for the engine.

P161911

PCH, Legends of LeMons Edition: V12 Jaguar or V8 Dune Buggy?

Steel_ETC — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:24:14 EDT

Jaguar all the way. The '91 model year had the murderous combination of Lucas secondary electrics but a Marelli dual-distributor-synchronized system that was famous for malfunctioning and dumping unburnt fuel in the exhaust when one of its symmetrical modules failed. I wouldn't be surprised if that V12 is sold as 'extra crispy'.

Steel_ETC