Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers - Jalopnik Comments

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

Thomamo — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 23:30:25 EDT

This list is flawed - and for one very simple reason. Stirling Moss, the man at the top, not only did not win a single WDC, he also never really managed to beat lowly 6th placed Juan Manuel Fangio (5 time world champion, whose wins to races entered is an almost unassailable 46%)when they were both team mates at Mercedes in 1955.
Yes Moss won the British GP that year, but Moss admitted that Fango could have won the race, but the great man, easily the greatest sporting gentleman the sport has known, allowed Moss to achieve his cherished dream of winning his home grand prix.
Going by the author's logic he should have placed Rubens Barrichello ahead of Michael Schumacher!

Thomamo

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

2CVDJ — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 08:58:08 EDT

@davewin:

Well the man at the head of the list didn't win one title either. Its all objective of course and based on his opinion.

2CVDJ

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

MajorKong — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 20:56:12 EDT

@Armand4:
So then, neither Senna nor Prost is a "real champion"? And they crashed into each other how many times?

MajorKong

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

Crash Chloride — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 17:41:31 EDT

Nice to see Gilles Villeneuve listed, would be nice to see him listed higher. The man had balls to match his skill.

Crash Chloride

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

ppiddy — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 15:56:00 EDT

Hmm, post didn't show. Hopefully this isn't a dupe:

Fangio:

Moss:
Clark:
Prost:
Senna:
Schumacher:

All beautiful, but how can you begin to compare the 1st to the last?!?

ppiddy

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

ppiddy — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 15:49:32 EDT

Not only did Clark, Moss, Ascari, Fangio et al drive more dangerous cars, but you also have to give them a little bit of credit for the reliability of their cars. Unlike a Schumacher, who was limited primarily by his own skill, those old guys came from an era where cars broke down VERY VERY frequently and often spectacularly. Luck had a lot more to do with things back then, as opposed to psychotic physical training and perfectly engineering cars. It's ridiculous to compare them on the same list...it's like trying to compare WRC drivers to F1 drivers.

No doubt, Schumacher is insanely talented, but you know, it's not the same today. Watching video of the pre-computerized F1 races is such a trip. The cars were just so much more alive. Observe:
Clark:

Moss:
Fangio:

Those can't be compared to:
Schumacher:

Senna:

Going from the Fangio video to the Schumacher one is a total mindf-k.

ppiddy

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

Sydscraper — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 15:15:48 EDT

What do people expect from a writer for the Guardian? An Englishman first, a Scot second, and the next two drivers were with both McLaren and Williams. Does the book come with a Union Jack? And how does he rate drivers like Bernd Rosemeyer, who raced over seventy years ago? This list makes the author sound like a hack and a quack.

Sydscraper

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

davewin — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 13:20:32 EDT

@2CVDJ After Hamilton wins a title he might deserve to be ranked ahead of drivers with what, 5 titles between them?

I used to like Alan Henry's work. This list is changing all that. I'd say more but the other comments have said it all.

davewin

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

the good dr zero — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:17:09 EDT

@2CVDJ: I agree. There is no way that Hamilton is 61 drivers better than Ralf!

the good dr zero

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

2CVDJ — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 09:18:33 EDT

Hamiliton above

31. Nigel Mansell
32. Fernando Alonso
33. Rudolf Caracciola
36. Alan Jones
37. James Hunt
40. Mike Hawthorn
41. Giuseppe Farina
45. François Cevert
46. Gerhard Berger
70. Derek Warwick
71. Dick Seaman
73. Peter Collins

After 1 season? He's good but come on!

2CVDJ

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

v250gto — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 03:27:37 EDT

Mika Häkkinen rightly deserves his place

the heavy crash in austrailia that almost cost him his life

one of only a few men to regularly threaten Schumacher

what some argue is the greatest pass in formula one history

the best qualifier since Aryton Senna

and probably most importantly, more sportsmanlike than Schumacher could ever hope to be

v250gto

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

3304HL — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 23:37:06 EDT

@smokeydog001: have to agree; typical british drivel.

Hell Moss couldn't beat Fangio when they were both drving the same Mercedes.

He was a bloody good driver, but not a patch on "the great Juan"

3304HL

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

Halib — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 22:56:57 EDT

A list like this is always subjective - but where is Andrea de Cesaris?
Neither Damon Hill nor Eddie Irvine would be in a top 100 list that wasn't totally UK biased never mind Moss at number 1.

Halib

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

Armand Bengle — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:56:54 EDT

@DSwig: Yeah, I suppose I phrased the "fair play" part wrong-- "nationalism" is probably a better description. And no, I haven't been to the Monterey Historics. But I kind of admire that his nationalism led him to drive relatively slow British cars, and that he could still pull off a win every now and then. This stands in contrast to #71, Dick Seaman (heh heh) who went to Mercedes in the '30s. By all accounts Seaman was a patriotic Englishman as well as a talented driver, but the most famous photo of him shows him giving a stiff-arm Nazi salute after winning at the Nurburgring.

Armand Bengle

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

DoctorNine makes tires squeal in terror — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:33:52 EDT

@middlejester: Well we obviously have enough passion here. I'm gonna get a copy to read, just so I can see how's and why's. If I agreed with everything in it, there would be no need to read it.

DoctorNine makes tires squeal in terror

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

DSwig — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:33:26 EDT

@Armand4:

Armand, I disagree. I don't think anyone is suggesting that Sir Stirling was anything less than a spectacular shoe in his day (prior to his '62 Goodwood accident). His Mille Miglia '55 performance was the stuff of legend (side note: he was high), as were his successes at the Nurburgring and other endurance events. He proved his skill in a vast variety of racing machines (Doug Nye wrote a great book about this, I forget the title)

As for his "British sense of fair play", well, I think you're phrased this wrong. He definitely had a sense of British nationalism, often choosing to compete in relatively uncompetitive British cars. But fair play? Have you ever been to the Monterey Historics?

On a lighter note...

"Who do you think you are? Stirling Moss?"

DSwig

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

middlejester — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 18:29:42 EDT

Everyone is clearly upset here... let's all calm down and focus on the task at hand: a good #71 Dick Seaman joke.

middlejester

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

Stuntdriver — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 18:26:39 EDT

@DSwig:
fangio doesn{t qualify as a "driver"...
because he was a "driving god"...

this ranking is an insult!!!!

my personal top 3:

1)Fangio
2)Senna
3)Stirling Moss

Stuntdriver

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

Armand Bengle — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 17:57:34 EDT

@smokeydog001: In an interview with Classic Motorsports magazine, Brian Redman said that the drivers of the immediate prewar era were the toughest men ever to take the wheel in anger. He may be right--anyone with the balls to drive a 500HP Auto-Union with skinny tires and swing-axles has my respect.

Oh, and Michael Schumacher loses points for being a douchebag. Real champions don't win races by running their opponents off the track.

Armand Bengle

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

Armand Bengle — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 17:53:13 EDT

I think it's worth mentioning that Sir Stirling's peculiarly British sense of fair play meant that he usually drove for low-budget privateer teams like Rob Walker Racing; his only big-money rides were the all-conquering Mercedes-Benzes of the '50s. This is a guy who took a Formula 2 Cooper with a Coventry Climax engine (down half a liter on the competition) and won an F1 race in it... and since the Cooper lacked center-lock wheels, meaning tire changes were prohibitively time consuming, he did it on one set of tires. I agree that this list might be a little skewed (who the hell put Ralf Schumacher on the list, let alone ahead of Wolfgang Von Trips?), but to complain about Moss never winning a championship is to completely overlook his talents.

Armand Bengle

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

freds4hb — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 17:45:02 EDT

This is so ridiculous. As an F1 fan (stop throwing beer cans!) I can't believe that this could be treated as anything other than fodder to get people to read this book. If you take away Schumacher's "contract" passes (and Ralph is there WHY?!) He maybe wins 1 less world championship, and 5 less races, so umm that still gives him 86 wins, and 6 world championships, no one even comes close except Fangio (who by the way is stupidly 6th!)

The dearly departed are difficult to list, many of them like Cevert, and Nuvolari were clearly fast, and tragically taken, yet, neither completed what many would consider a lengthy stay in F1 to say the least.

Additionally, many drivers are listed high whereas they don't have a world championship (I'm a little Jody Scheckter biased, maybe its cause my name is different by a letter,, but he still won a championship).

I'm sure the pictures are nice,, but there's no way I'm getting the book!

freds4hb

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

smokeydog001 — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 17:34:00 EDT

Sterling Moss was my boyhood hero, but he was no Fangio or Nuvolari!

smokeydog001

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

JantheMan — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 17:11:32 EDT

@CafeRacer1200: No of course not. F1 is the best thing their is and I am a old F1 clip junkie...loved the the turbo era...and I am a big fan of the late Ronnie Peterson.

JantheMan

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

DustyButt — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 16:44:56 EDT

Nigel Mansell is 31st and Mika Häkkinen is 10th.

Hmm...

I say, this list has NO credibility.

DustyButt

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

tony-e30 — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 16:34:21 EDT

Ralf and Jenson? WTF?

tony-e30

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

crazygutgut — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 16:32:27 EDT

Dont let the accent fool you, Sir Stirling Moss is so bad ass his name should be a verb.

crazygutgut

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

brandegee — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 16:32:09 EDT

@HansStuckJr: Switching Rosemeyer with Schumacher highlights the absurdity of this list. Rosemeyer drove a widowmaker. Schumacher did not. Would either have performed as well in their different eras? Perhaps, but who can say?

Still it's fun to make lists/read lists/trash lists.

brandegee

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

goatrope — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 16:23:51 EDT

How old is this Alan Henry joker? It looks like he was a fan in the mid 1960's, so he put his favorites from his era at the top. In his mind, the new kids (like Schumacher, Hakkinen - no difference between those two) aren't that good and the old guys (Ascari, Fangio) weren't all that great.

His analysis isn't supported by the facts.

goatrope

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

stuntpuppy — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 16:09:00 EDT

So, you guys don't like the list?

stuntpuppy

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

6street — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 16:00:08 EDT

worst list of anything, ever!

6street

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

TR3-A — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:56:32 EDT

Lists like this serve only one purpose: To invite comments on websites like this.

TR3-A

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

sliderule — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:37:39 EDT

@desmo: i agree mostly with desmo. Hamilton does not belong yet, especially considering Alonso has won two (2) world championships. I enjoyed watching JV and agree with him being on the list. He was the only one who had to beat MS and his loser team mate Eddie Irvine-who coincidentally is on the list(?). That alone is a load of bs. The only other driver that has beat MS is Alonso

sliderule

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

eam3 — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:30:18 EDT

7x champion Michael Schumacher is on the list behind Mikka Häkkinen? And if Ralf Schumacher can make the list, then why not Takuma Sato since it seems the author was just pulling names out of a hat anyway? And chokemeister Hamilton above proven 2x champion Alonso? Well done Sparky!

eam3

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

desmo — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:16:15 EDT

Clearly the worst list of its kind. Hamilton has no right being there above so many great drivers. One season does not make you the best, he shouldnt even be on the list until a few seasons in F1. Further, this list should be titled "the top F1 drivers as rated by a biased, old man who obviously hasnt watched F1 since the 70s, and only started watching again because of Hamilton". Niki Lauda at 20????????? The guy pretty much died and was back in the seat 3 weeks later to fight for a championship. This makes me believe he clearly has an aversion to ferrari drivers, and the fact that jaques villenueve is on the list is pathetic (and im Canadian to boot). This list is a "my fav" lost more then anything. MS should be at least top 3, as no one in ANY sport had acheived that domination or consistancy ever before. I guess i could go on forever about this list, but truly among the worst ever comprised...

desmo

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

thatguy01 — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:10:23 EDT

@CafeRacer1200: Sir Stirling was off his feet from surgery, but he's generally mobile.

thatguy01

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

DoctorNine makes tires squeal in terror — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:08:26 EDT

Don't know if it goes on the coffee table, but i sure enough am gonna read it.

DoctorNine makes tires squeal in terror

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

CafeRacer1200 — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:07:13 EDT

@JantheMan:
Addendum:
By your logic, the fact that I survived club racing motorcycles makes me a better racer than Senna? Not a chance in Hell.

CafeRacer1200

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

FLB — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:07:03 EDT

@beercheck: IIRC, that picture was taken at Goodwood two years ago. Sir Stirling had just received a hip replacement.

As for the list, one racing board I frequent absolutely demolished it although you'll find many people who agree with the top four or five. Dennis Jenkinson, a man who attended more than 600 Grand Prix in his lifetime as Motorsport's racing correspondant (and knew what the hell he talked about), rated Clark on top followed by Senna, Moss, Ascari and Gilles Villeneuve.

FLB

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

LionZoo — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:05:14 EDT

Chris Amon was a good talent, but having someone who never won a grand prix in 13th ahead of multiple world champions is just criminal.

The absurdity of this list forced me to register and comment. I was happy being a jalopnik lurker (jalurker?), but this list just took me at gunpoint and told me I must comment. Of course now it wants me to go to an ATM...

LionZoo

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

DSwig — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:04:36 EDT

Chris Amon is 13th. Any coincidence there?

I simply fail to understand how someone who never won a championship could be #1. Nuvolari is turning in his grave, for sure.

And the book isn't even titled correctly. According to the list (with many prewar drivers included), it should be "The Top 100 Greatest Grand Prix Drivers of All Time". "Formula One" refers to 1950 and beyond. Get the facts straight!

DSwig

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

TrojanBMW — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:03:29 EDT

That Alan Henry guy is not British is he? Moss #1, you've got to be kidding me! The guy never won the championship. Anyone else remember when he crashed the Aston Martin at Laguna Seca Historics?

Hakkinen above Schumacher is just plain stupid.

TrojanBMW

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

CafeRacer1200 — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:59:16 EDT

@JantheMan:

Holy crap, man! You can't be serious! When you look at the non-existent safety consideration, the deplorable track conditions and the primitive equipment these men drove with, it's not that SOME of them died, it's more a case of why didn't they all? There are LOTS of drivers now, including Schumacher, Hakkinen, etc. that would not have survived similar accidents in the 50's and 60's. Men like Rosemeyer and Peter Collins were brave to a level that modern drivers can't fathom. I'm just boggled at your logic.

CafeRacer1200

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

thatguy01 — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:55:46 EDT

Martin Brundle?

Johnny Servoz-Gavin?

The publisher must have switched the top 100 list with "Famous F1 Drivers and Some Other Random Guys" by mistake.

thatguy01

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

DSwig — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:54:26 EDT

Fangio in 6th, below Ascari?!? Schumacher 11th? 12 World Championships between them and they can't even crack the top 5? What a joke. As the first commenter suggested, this list must be in no particular order.

To put Moss first is just silly. A legendary great he was, but the best F1 driver of all time? I don't think so.

DSwig

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

JantheMan — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:52:06 EDT

Anyone who died of racing is not good....obviously...count them out

JantheMan

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

voodoojoo — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:51:04 EDT

@beercheck: That link nearly spurred me on to reread all of Davey's old work for the, what is it, fifth time now? Maybe I'll just reread Bumbeck for the fourth time instead.

voodoojoo

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

racerx — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:48:30 EDT

How is Fangio not first, if not in the top 3?!

racerx

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

Maxichamp — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:44:48 EDT

I can see how these lists are controversial, but this guy who compiled it is on crack. Button and Truli have no business being on this list.

Maxichamp

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

CafeRacer1200 — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:42:42 EDT

@vwminispeedster:
These guys were immortal when I was a little kid. They were my dad's and my uncle's heroes. Now, they're old men with old men's issues. Sigh.

CafeRacer1200

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

graverobber- My Yugo Nova! — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:35:10 EDT

I'd put Lauda ahead of Brabham, but what I find very sad about this list is how many great drivers died at the wheel. I guess that could be further testament to Moss leading this list as both a great and prudent driver.

graverobber- My Yugo Nova!

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

vwminispeedster is actively searching for a $500 Citroen — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:33:30 EDT

@CafeRacer1200: i was wondering the same thing. i was surprised to see phil hill having parkinsons. it was a treat seeing him drive (very quickly) in an old Ferrari F1 car at Laguna Seca a couple years back.

vwminispeedster is actively searching for a $500 Citroen

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

HansStuckJr — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:30:32 EDT

Ralf Schumacher?!?!!? Ahahahaha. He shouldn't even be allowed to buy the book, let alone be on the list. And I would switch Rosemeyer and M. Schumacher. The point about him dictating race strategy and teammates is fair, but 7 championships is 7 championships.

HansStuckJr

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

beercheck — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:29:26 EDT

That Stirling link to Davey's work.....I'm okay, just got something in my eye...

beercheck

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

CafeRacer1200 — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:24:47 EDT

BTW. Is Sir Stirling in a wheelchair? Have I missed something lately?

CafeRacer1200

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

Isetta — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:24:01 EDT

This was an era where you could actually see the drivers work. Although Stirling made it look easy; it wasn't.

Isetta

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

Rustang — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:23:53 EDT

Ridiculous, top to bottom.

A driver who never won a championship, the first? Fangio, sixth? Schumacher, eleventh? Choke artist, only one season under his belt, Hamilton, above two-time champion Alonso?

Laughable.

Rustang

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

The Name's Ash78, Housewares — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:23:25 EDT

@Andrewpetty: Why else would Mika Hakkinen be above Michael Schumacher?

Because the team ordered Hakkinen to win?

The Name's Ash78, Housewares

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

beercheck — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:22:45 EDT

Cheever got robbed.

beercheck

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

Corvette_Thunder — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:22:05 EDT

I love Jenson Button but...

No way in hell he's better than Bruce Mclaren, Alboreto, Irvine, Piers Courage and Brian Redman.

Corvette_Thunder

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

beercheck — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:21:25 EDT

Yay Moss.

Didn't we do something like this recently?

beercheck

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

CafeRacer1200 — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:21:19 EDT

Hmmmm, move Fangio above Prost and move Hakkinen down to about 50 or so and call it done.

CafeRacer1200

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

Mysterious Utility Bento — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:21:15 EDT

What about the list of top 100 whiney F1 drivers who write protest letters to Bernie on Flowered Stationary and then get a hot rock massage to calm down???????

Mysterious Utility Bento

Stirling Moss Number One In List Of Top 100 F1 Drivers

Andrewpetty — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:19:37 EDT

Is this list in no particular order? It must be. Why else would Mika Hakkinen be above Michael Schumacher?

Andrewpetty