+ Watch video

corky4president

detroitgal

detroitgal

It's sad really... it's like watching someone who goes into a denial period right after losing a spouse or child(or some Zeta-based RWD cars or some Ultra V8 engines perhaps?)... but the denial period is only temporary. Eventually reality hits home and the real grief starts.

Even I'm a little sad that the Ultra V8 won't see the light of day... which probably also means the Cadilac V12 won't either.

But it's not all bad... At least Cadilac has a V6 that puts out more power than the original Northstar - without any forced induction.

petersterncan

Paul_E_Wally

rodgercraig

However this does provide and excellent cautionary tale. In the early days, the ozone hole situation (which unlike global warming was something no one really predicted) attracted much the same reaction we now see to global warming from many of the same people. First it didn't exist, then it did, but was natural, then it was man made, but too expensive to do anything about. Fortunately, science and reason won relatively quickly, we banned CFCs, and are on the road to recovery. The situation is still bad, but it would have been FAR FAR worse had the denialists prevailed, or delayed action significantly.

You'd think this would provide an object lesson for early action and the fact that scientific data doesn't care about politics. Sigh.

dohcspit

POLAЯMISSESEVEЯYBODY

There's so MUCH UV light:
- I have the UV filter as a permanent attachment on my camera, even/especially at dusk.
- Even babies have to wear sunscreen. Anyone out in the sun, even if you just dash inside.
- Sunburning is considered highly dangerous, can/will lead to cancer.

These are facts, not fiction, Bob.

Oh, and Bob, your Ameri-centric attitude is deadly as well.

Kendra

To think that the most respected scientific organizations and peer reviewed journals are promoting some unfounded lefty conspiracy is just silly.

The fact is science overwhelmingly supports one side of this debate, to the point that you would have to search long and hard to find an actual climatologist who doesn't believe that anthropogenic global warming is both real, and a serious problem. Scientists in the field generally consider that part of the debate over.

dohcspit

Unregular

I hope this was not a "beginning of the end" for wit and class around here.

rlj676-new job, same problems

Comrade Teargaskov

bmoredlj

Admiral Ackbar

I'll take you up on this one. No, I absolutely do not see the bleak future you do. By your own testimony, you believe the technology exists to rectify a lot of current problems. Your dystopian prediction completely removes the contribution of free(ish) market supply and demand which, by its very nature, will bring those technologies to the fore when their time comes. When those technologies become more attractive (read profitable) than the status quo, the investment will follow, and ingenuity will save our poor asses.

When all else fails, you can count on human greed and compassion doing their things. Rough patches and clunky progress will occur, over and over and over, but the sky isn't falling. And it won't.

beercheck

bruxell

beercheck

beercheck

Actually, the point is the train has NOT left the station for him, or many others.

rlj676-new job, same problems

Bluegoose

It's about as useful as debating the 35mpg cafe standard... it's done... the law has passed... it's now only worth discussing what (as a company) you're going to do about it.

While he's at it, he might as well start a 'Safety doesn't sell' or a 'Fuel economy doesn't sell even with high gas prices' debate.

petersterncan

NBC/Universal is a trademark of Sheinhart Wig all rights reserved.

rlj676-new job, same problems

Worst. ad. ever.

bmoredlj

tanooki2003

[www.greenbiz.com]

mytdawg

Mysterious Utility Bento

And Toyota is not so above the fray that they won't sell you a giant gas hog if that's what you want. They may make a subjectively better little car (and I'm the proud owner of several GM shitboxes) but that doesn't make them a more ecologically responsible car company. They want to sell like everybody else, what they sell you is up to you not them.

mytdawg

Anyone who read your comments without looking for a "fight" should see your point, and the irony in the reactions of some people. Like I said, this thread has really brought out the assholes. Even worse than CAFE discussions, which is something I'm much more passionate about than global warming, which, like everything, should be eyed with some degree of skepticism if you have no agenda.

rlj676-new job, same problems

Mr4Runner

Thanks for proving my point. I didn't spew anyone else's line (as you seem to be). I'm not saying I don't buy into it, but I also don't believe all of the doomsayers predictions of its severity either. I didn't repeat anyones BS. You just assumed I was disagreeing and acted like an asshole, as many have done on this thread, which WAS MY POINT.

rlj676-new job, same problems

JoSCh

That's pretty rough buddy. I didn't insult your car or your girl. I purposely never even made a statement about the existence/non-existence global warming to avoid getting attacked here by either side. Assuming you are insulting me about any political/global warming beliefs, you jumped to any conclusions about those beliefs all on your own. Not cool, buddy.

JHJVJR

I then had to defend myself against incorrect conclusions that these people jumped to. I am sorry if that prolonged all this political crap, but I couldn't hold back from telling people their assumptions about my beliefs were all wrong. I never put any of my beliefs out there in this post willingly; I did so only after someone else misstated my beliefs.

JHJVJR

JHJVJR

JHJVJR

Pro or Con, there is allot of BS out there. I for one will try and find the science myself. All you lemmings can follow which ever leader you wish. That is what your ALL doing. Spewing someone elses line.

CEman

Thanks Mike.

I have refresehed myself and am feeling better now.

Just hard to keep control in the face of such total BS.

CEman

There is common ground, but in this country, there seems to be very little of it. This particular thread shows that.

UDMan

The vitriol spilling "green" crew here is really trying to win a "debate" the exact way I learned early you can't, name calling and attacking a person rather than providing evidence.

I'm personally not swayed that it's as big of an issue as the doomsayers believe, but isn't automotive's contribution to the problem relatively tiny?

rlj676-new job, same problems

SCROGGZILLA RAIDS AGAIN!!

Global Warming is the new Roman Catholicism; "Get yer indulgences here!"

thunder

Sadly, there will always be an element of Communistic folk that believe someone should be removed or killed for expressing their opinion, like our friend @suttree: here.

Voted McCaine? Real educated. Another 100 years of war is a great alternative to Global Warming....

danio3834

Instead of looking to pie in the sky solutions that may never materialize, why not use what we already have?

danio3834

I'm probably one of the oldest Jalopniks on here and I think you are absolutely right. I've been through this before and it was tiresome then and it is tiresome now. It is not about the environment, it is about controlling the means of production,i.e. energy. Our liberal institutions of higher learning control an enormous amount of scientific grant money. What a way to advance an agenda. I was in college in the '60s and fell for the left wing enviro-BS that absolutely convinced the media that the next ice age was inevitable. Unfortunately for the university, they taught geology, which made the enviro Nazis' claims look ridiculous to anyone who bothered to attend class occasionally and read their textbook. It's the same nitwits today that claim we're going to burn in hell unless we effectively allow governments to dictate energy policy. Yes, I want a clean environment, but the inconvenient untruths of a third rate politician with a long, documented history of hysterics isn't the way to achieve it.

smokeydog001

What the fuck happened in here, folks? It's like we're all trapped in an elevator and someone just farted, everyone seems goddamn pissed off and I'm confused as to who the hell I should be blaming.

Funnily enough that also sums up my feelings on climate change.

Madness (Possibly Sparta, maybe baggy trousers.)

Mike the Dog

Al Gore is a rich slumlord who cares more about self-promotion than anything else.

You guys don't like the Cobalt ? I rented one and was very impressed; OK, it's no enthusiast's car, but a great girl car. Great mileage and impressive pickup.

NewCarSmellCologne

If only that would happen to GM...

amblito

ecobore

Now, it's "Sure, Global Warming Exists but maybe it's normal. Or maybe we didn't cause it".

What will it be next year?

Flip flopping, not just for Democrats anymore.

At this point, I'd like to use an argument Conservatives frequently use.

"Maybe I am wrong and there is no God/Global Warming. But I'd rather live like there is and err on the side of caution".

The sad fact of the matter is that there are so many things we could do to improve the environment without reducing our quality of life that aren't going to happen (at least in our lifetimes) because some fat cat would get a 20 million dollar bonus instead of 30 million. We could invest in solar power generation research and increase the electrical "yield" (not sure what the right term is here...return?) from solar panels, invest in clean hydroelectric power, thereby reducing our dependence on coal and oil-produced energy. I think it's pretty safe to say that we are a ways from having cars that run well on something other than petroleum. So let's use what petroleum is left on cars but spend the $ on researching a reasonable replacement. We know we are going to have to get off oil, even if peak oil is a myth and we never run out. Does anyone not see a total economic meltdown when it costs $150 to fill up your Honda? You're closer than you think to a $150 tank of gas.

Imagine homes completely powered from solar. Imagine what that alone could do for the environment. Is anyone really opposed to cleaner air?

clinto

The whole reason the IPCC was established because people in the 70s and 80s predicted CO2 would cause significant warming. What we observe today matches those predictions pretty well.

@Heftyjo:
You are in error. Britains NERC has good responses to many of these long refuted talking points: [www.nerc.ac.uk]

This isn't about liberal or conservative. The data overwhelmingly supports the conclusions of the IPCC. There's a reason the major scientific organizations like the AAAS and national academies supports those conclusions. These are some of the most prestigious scientific organizations in world, not some partisan hack think tanks.

dohcspit

Can we get back to cars maybe?

CEman

What is that northwest passage thing that just opened up mr brain? You know, the one that never existed until last year. Ya that one.

Do any of you fucking morons read anything besides car and wrestling news?

CEman

CEman

He is spewing CRAP while building and selling CRAP!!

And @JHJVJR: is so full of CRAP it is flying out of his ass, I mean mouth. Well, how can you tell the two apart? They both have shit coming out of them.

No one said they were retard. @bozoerrebbe:

I am not an expert on global warming, which the SCIENTISTS SAY IS HAPPENING by the way. What seems to be in question is the cause. Not the event. Not that half the posting morons here have any idea of.
Do you idiots read anything but car stuff and the wrestling news?

CEman

PS: don't forget the earth is flat.

suttree

I applaud Lutz's candor and certainly agree with him that the global warming is hogwash.

People are screaming, "THE ICE CAPS ARE MELTING DAMMIT", when in fact they are the largest ever recorded right at the moment.

Others are saying, "...solar cycles don't account for climate change because the sun isn't changing that much really". When in fact the Sun is going through some of the most prolific Sun Spot activity ever recorded since the 1940's. The Sun has averaged more sun spots in the last 40 years out of the 1150 years of good sun spot record keeping. This is a mountain of data when set against the paltry amount of ice core, satellite, and super computer simulations run within the last few years. What is interesting is that right now the Sun should be ramping up for peak sun spot activity however, the Sun has remained rather quiet. In fact, I predict, as well as a number of accredited scientists who study Solar variation that the Earth will experience several years of colder than average temperatures due to reduced sun spot activity. Just look back to the early 1800's at the number of sun spots in relation to some of the coldest years ever experienced in modern times.

Heftyjo

suttree

suttree

suttree

danio3834

suttree

danio3834

Ive been waiting for someone in a high level position to finally get those words published in the media!

I admire Lutz for saying what no one else under scrutiny has the balls to.

danio3834

Turboner

Turboner

.: R32-PΩWER ™

.: R32-PΩWER ™

6. ????

7. Profit!

Dammit, posting to the wrong site again...

zaddikim

Here's hoping that GM can get back in the game, not lay off thousands of people, hopefully cap or roll back their executive salaries and expense accounts, and get the Chevy Volt to market on time (or before) and on budget.

skulldriveshaft

Henry "Frickin" Ford got up with the rest of the Big 3 in a press conference and said seatbelts would "Cripple" the US auto industry. Said the same thing when unleaded gas became the only option.

Good to know the same kind of a-holes are in charge. I was so excited about Mr. Lutz too. God help us. I'm waiting for my hydrogen conversion kit for the Skylark. Seems like I might have to buy it from BMW or Mercedes.

skylark64

Nevertheless, I don't mind erring on the side of caution. GM's crock of and advertising campaign happens to be profitable too, so of course they should keep it up.

79TA

JHJVJR

wheels OF satan!

htrodblder

If you want to learn what professionals in the field think, I suggest [ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu] or [www.realclimate.org]

@ihateauditions: Yelling and insults don't generally support your argument. Unless your argument was that you could make yourself look like a jerk on the internet. If that was it, you've succeeded admirably!

dohcspit

The Chevrolet Volt.
Now with 20% more Al than the competition.

POLAЯMISSESEVEЯYBODY

I LIKE CARS

mikedrawcar

The so called green consumers are just buying what "They" are selling, especially when it comes to cars.

I am suddenly motivated to buy a 71 Eldorado @bozoerrebbe:

hotrodmetal

On an unrelated note, I once talked about global warming with the owner of the company I work for. We were in an H2. That's really all I've got on the subject.

Maymar is convinced M.C. Escher engineered his car

beercheck

beercheck

JHJVJR

beercheck

Unregular

POLAЯMISSESEVEЯYBODY

JHJVJR

JHJVJR

POLAЯMISSESEVEЯYBODY

JHJVJR

smart42

Unregular

total crock of shit... NOT a denier?

this is the head of a major american car company?

TOTAL CROCK OF SHIT??? that's "on the fence"???

Unregular

JHJVJR

True / False

answer the question.

We all now know what the head of a major (failing) American company thinks... so you should be secure in your answer too. Total crock of shit or not? Man up.

Unregular

beercheck

JHJVJR

POLAЯMISSESEVEЯYBODY

JHJVJR

I'd rather have executives say what they think rather than PC pablum for public consumption. Regardless of how Lutz or any other GM employee thinks about global warming, the fact is that GM is spending many many millions of dollars on bringing alternatively powered vehicles to market - probably as much as any other private company in the world. Laugh at the hybrid Escalade, but if the US full size pickup fleet was all dual mode hybrids, it would save significantly more fuel than producing another Prius.

It's an inconvenient truth that American car companies are no less moral than any other car companies.

bozoerrebbe

True/False

At least he's honest. Do you think Toyota executives actually believe differently?

JHJVJR

beercheck

thunder

beercheck

Thank you...thank you very much. I couldn't have said it better.

Kelly

"Global Warming is a total crock of shit.'

True / False

Unregular

@JHJVJR: and i support burning the bodies of war supporters for power, doesn't mean it's the best solution.

Unregular

Unregular

POLAЯMISSESEVEЯYBODY

beercheck

Also, If you look at previous posts, I am a huge nuclear supporter precisely because I believe getting off oil is good for America.

JHJVJR

"You want Republican bashing? Here's republican bashing, you guys have had control of *all three branches* of government, and in the past 8 years managed to double the deficit while talking about how the Democrats are the ones who spend too much.

You want Bush bashing? That asshole thought we'd be in and out of Iraq in a few weeks. Now it's looking like it'll be more than a decade and a trillion dollars, yet assholes like you think "more of the same" is a recipe for success.

Nobody brought up politics until you, you partisan fuck. You want to vote for idiotic, unqualfied fucks, that's your business. You want to take criticism for their COMPLETE FAILURES personally, that's your business."

Further, addressing the end of the quote, look at some previous CAFE/global warming threads and there is plenty of partisan bullshit.

JHJVJR

beercheck

it's just so tired at this point. let me guess - "fundamentalist islamic terrorists are outside of my window"?

HERE'S THE NEWS!!! BURNING THROUGH BARRELS AND BARRELS OF FOREIGN OIL IS BAD FOR AMERICA!!!!

ITS BAD FOR OUR ENVIRONMENT, ITS BAD FOR OUR ECONOMY, ITS BAD FOR OUR SECURITY, ITS BAD FOR OUR FUTURE!!!!

(note the "OUR"s in there...)

BUYING "AMERICAN" BY BUYING AWFUL ENGINE TECHNOLOGY WITH SHITTY MPGs IS BAD FOR AMERICA!!!

ALLOWING OIL BARRONS TO RUN ROUGHSHOD OVER OUR GOVERNMENT - AND SHOUTING DOWN (haha!) ANYONE WHO CALLS THEM ON IT - IS BAD FOR AMERICA!!!

WHOS FUCKING SIDE ARE YOU ON!???

Unregular

JHJVJR

JHJVJR

I will always say that singling out GM for enviro-bashing is absurdly stupid.

JHJVJR

JHJVJR

beercheck

Unregular

[I may have my terms backwards.]

JHJVJR

.: R32-PΩWER ™

beercheck

The "green" movement is appealing to many because it validates a collectivist philosophy. If someone believes that individual choice should be limited for the greater good, environmentalism can be used to force this idea down people's throats by scaring them with an impending disaster. It is the perfect way to stifle America's natural libertarian tendencies.

Personally, I don't give a shit about global warming because we need to get off oil anyway before we run out. I advocate slapping up nuclear plants everywhere, some of which will produce liquid hydrogen for our cars. Emissions problem solved.

JHJVJR

POLAЯMISSESEVEЯYBODY

DIAF. HAND.

ihateauditions

beercheck

Global warming is not a political issue, it's a scientific one. The fact that you can't tell the difference indicates that you are, in fact, a science-hating Republican asshole, no matter what you may claim.

DIAF. HAND.

ihateauditions

Toyota has done this, and is working on positioning themselves to be the big dog with their experience in hybrids.

GM is too fucking stupid to do this, because of dumbasses like Lutz.

ihateauditions

I accept that the world will always be full of stupid people. Hell, half of the world's population is below average, and average ain't that great to begin with.

But cut us a break, if you're too dumb to understand the basic concept that massive changes in atmospheric makeup are likely to have unpredictable and possibly negative effects, then you should shut the fuck up. Failing an ability to do that, you should just fucking kill yourself.

DIAF. HAND.

ihateauditions

JHJVJR

JHJVJR

You want Bush bashing? That asshole thought we'd be in and out of Iraq in a few weeks. Now it's looking like it'll be more than a decade and a trillion dollars, yet assholes like you think "more of the same" is a recipe for success.

Nobody brought up politics until you, you partisan fuck. You want to vote for idiotic, unqualfied fucks, that's your business. You want to take criticism for their COMPLETE FAILURES personally, that's your business.

You want to claim that every fucking scientist in the world is in a big conspiracy and that changing the atmosphere drastically doesn't matter at all, that's your business.

Right up until you post a stupid fucking partisan bullshit post here.

I used to be a Republican, but I'm not anymore, because I'm too fucking smart to be in the same room as assholes like you.

DIAF. HAND.

ihateauditions

dfwguy

Scientific study demands that we eliminate as many variables as humanly possible, then run an experiment numerous times before presuming to draw conclusions. A computer model of what we think we know is not an acceptable alternative for actual experimentation.

I believe we need to be responsible for our environment, I do not currently accept, as fact, that man made global warming is destroying our planet.

.: R32-PΩWER ™

I guess I'll print the pearls of wisdom from Maximum and pin them on the wall, kinda like a get out of jail free card for doing anything we damn well please cause the climate geeks are just plain wrong, and car execs have the inside scoop.

smart42

Science isn't a democracy, but if you are not an expert in a given field, the view supported by a very strong consensus among experts is the safe bet.

There has been a concerted political effort downplay this consensus.

If you look at the number of contrary positions in peer reviewed literature it is very small, and the data supporting them is generally poor. The consensus view is well supported, which is why the likes of the AAAS and NAS back it. The statements by these organizations reflect their membership, who represent a diverse selection of the political spectrum.

I encourage people to look at positions supported by these organizations. The video I linked earlier also shows some interesting history (and features a professor in the history of science, not Al Gore)

@Mike the Dog: Check your sarcsmeter.

dohcspit

The world's supposed to end in 2012 anyway, right?

NovaloadMissesPolar

cegerer

spaceship

PaulE

'08 Dodge Challenger? American car? The Challenger will be made at Chrysler's Brampton, Onterio, Canada assembly plant.

you really want the American economy and American workers to benefit by your buying decisions? buy cars MADE in America. not cars made in foreign countries - but execs living in America and living off the "buy american" theme.

or demand that "American" car companies make their cars in America!

Unregular

Beluga

Mike the Dog

Unfortunately, you vote with your dollars. If you buy the product you want, it's imperative upon those who didn't get your business to figure out why and adapt. Competition breeds competitiveness. Survival of the fittest and all that.

I love American cars, and want to keep jobs in the US, but in the end, I'm going to buy the car that's best for me.

On the same token, I don't think any business is evil for selling what sells well. It's not their prerogative to enact socioeconomicgeopolitical justice. They sell goods in exchange for money. To do otherwise is foolish.

Mad_Science

FOUR MORE YEARS! FOUR MORE YEARS!

Unregular

Mike the Dog

Certain "Foreign" car companies have Execs in Japan and workers from America building the cars.

Which is better?

Unregular

Not all scientists are convinced that solar activity is not the cause of current climate change.

[ibdeditorial.com]

jbarrow

Mike the Dog

Unregular

P.S. At the 2008 NAAS, the GM fuel cell vehicle (a Trailblazer, I think) had a plaque with a spec. saying it would haul 750 lbs. Does anyone know what the Honda Clarity will carry? (their display did not say)

westfieldind

Unregular