Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power? - Jalopnik Comments

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

wheels OF satan! — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 02:08:40 EST

@GreenVanMan:
the russians won..
the limeys just stood around watching...

wheels OF satan!

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

GreenVanMan — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 00:26:38 EST

Are we sure the British won World War II? just sayin'

GreenVanMan

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

skulldriveshaft — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 22:51:22 EST

@UDMAN: Lotus 2 Eleven anyone?

skulldriveshaft

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

mikedrawcar — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 22:39:22 EST

@UDMAN: yes, it is still owned by Proton. Although I had thought they'd given it up a few years back after hearing junior Suharto had some financial/legal problems. Must've been wax building in my ears. Or eyes.
@Euromobile: thank you for expanding. I think we have a mutual understanding.

mikedrawcar

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

Fat-American-Stig — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 21:31:20 EST

More Clarkson schadenfreude.

Fat-American-Stig

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

UDMan — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 21:12:18 EST

@Schm: Correct me, but the last I know is that Lotus is owned by the Malaysian Car Maker Proton. And they are slowly killing it.

UDMan

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

CARBONFIBER — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:25:34 EST

@CARBONFIBER:

* Separate Article Aston-Martin LMP1

[www.racecar-engineering.com]

CARBONFIBER

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

CARBONFIBER — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:23:57 EST

Aston-Martin LMP1

* Separate Article

[www.racecar-engineering.com]

CARBONFIBER

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

CARBONFIBER — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:20:09 EST

@velocecrat:

Hey Velocecrat, avoid the square brackets [ ] & the Hyper Link will work. Try again here:

[www.racecar-engineering.com]

CARBONFIBER

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

CARBONFIBER — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:16:36 EST

@iVision:

Aston Benz?
Mercedes Martin?
Austin Powers?

I gotta agree with most of you guys. Not sure if so much the Astons are 'Under Powered', or Over Weight?

Given the alternatives, I guess partnering with Daimler beats going with Cherry or Beiqi Foton?

However check out Benz's JD Power reliability index lately & you'll start scratching your head. They had to send all their best engineers to Detroit to sort out Dodge & Chrylser, they fell behind back home. The E-Class has been Plagued by electronic & quality control issues, etc.

I spoke with a young guy with a DB9. Asked him how he liked it? The seats were killing him! He said they were painfull. This was a young kid too under 30! Imagine older gents with real back problems?! That on an expensive Luxury car.

CARBONFIBER

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

Armand Bengle — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:09:53 EST

Aston needs to bring back the DOHC straight-six, preferably with polished aluminum cam covers. I know it'd be futile to ask for a trio of 2-inch SU carbs, but I can dream, right? A big six is just so... British. I think Astons should have Aston engines. I can forgive the double-Duratec V12, because it was only used by A-M, and at least the Jag V8 in the new Vantage has been reworked a bit. But I'd really like to see an Aston Martin with its own motor. Now that I think of it, though, the DB2 used a Lagonda motor designed by none other than Sir Walter Owen Bentley. Hey, at least it was still an all-British car.

Armand Bengle

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

velocecrat — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 18:38:47 EST

Agreed: if Le Mans can be won with an aspro V12 or a turbo six, then the world doesn't need a turbo V12. It needs proliferation of same even less.

Anyway, it looks like Aston's race-version plans continue. [www.racecar-engineering.com] wonder for how long.

velocecrat

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

janus12 — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 18:06:41 EST

As long as they don't use forced induction I'm fine with this. Besides the last V8 vantages of the 90s, Aston's have always been naturally aspirated and I think they should stay that way. The idea of a twin turbo V12 siting in an aston is just....well stupid. I mean sure it'll get you lots of power, but it seems like a cop out to me. And I mean, sure the V12s they have now are two V6s from a shit box that have been welded together, and the V8 is a Jag V8, but Aston has done some stuff of their own. I would hope that Mercedes would just supply the basic engine and Aston would tune it how they want, without using turbos just to make a ton of power. If they just take a 600 + horsepower twin turbo V12 from Merc and shove it in a DB9 I'll be disappointed.

janus12

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

Euromobile — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:03:26 EST

@UDMAN: I hate to say it, but you're pretty much right. At least some of the 'British' brands that are left still build cars that are British in character. More importantly, they're still built here, even if some of the parts are sourced from elsewhere.

The US car industry could go the same way, but at the end of the day, your government will protect your economy and your industries. Ours didn't; they joined the EU instead.

Euromobile

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

Schm, lord of Torques! — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 15:12:09 EST

Don@UDMAN: Dont forget about Lotus.

Schm, lord of Torques!

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

UDMan — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:54:45 EST

@Euromobile: I'm late to this party, but I have to say the following: The British Car industry is Dead, has been dead for at least a decade, and will always be dead.

Tell me, what is British about Rolls Royce lately; or how about Bentley; Aston Martin was owned by Ford, but now have to stand on their own; TVR has gone by the wayside; Land Rover (and Jaguar) will be Indian soon (How ironic that an old British Crown Colony will own a British Crown Jewel); However, you have a few cottage car makers that contribute less than a few vehicles into the world (Morgan, & Bristol to name a couple), so that is the extent of the British Car industry.

This is not necessarily a criticism, it is just a blueprint that the American Car Industry will be in less than a Decade. If we follow what happened to Britain, and then compare it to our own auto industry, we seem to be following the same path to extinction.

UDMan

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

Armand Bengle — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:50:52 EST

@Euromobile: Remember the legend that England will fall when the ravens leave the Tower of London? Now they clip their wings so they can't fly away, and they just hang out spreading disease to tourists. In theory, since the ravens can never leave the Tower, England will never fall. I think that Morgan is the automotive incarnation of these ravens, and that once they stop building 4/4s on five-inch-wide wire wheels with aluminum-over-hardwood bodies the Krauts are going to completely take over.

Armand Bengle

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

Euromobile — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 09:35:44 EST

@savethevipers: I'm perfectly aware of the various "intricate processes and dealings", but I object to platform-sharing, re-skinning and badge-engineering of Mercs to create Astons.

I'm always a bit concerned when a foreign car manufacturer buys out a British one, but in the case of Ford, I wasn't too bothered. Ford have had a pseudo-independant British arm since years, so they know the score when it comes to building a 'British' car. Unfortunately a lot of key decisions on Jag, Land Rover (which mercifully they've managed not to completely mess up, although they're now going to hock it to the Indians), and Aston were made by the top execs in Dearborn and look where that got them.

As for the Rolls-Royce Phantom, I know that the basic frame and engine are built in Germany. It would be nice if they were still made in the UK, but at least they are both unique to the Phantom. In addition, the design team behind the car was apparently led by a Brit (not that it matters much) and the final assembly is done in the UK, almost entirely by hand, with craftsmen employed in many of the processes.

To expand on the design aspect, foreign designers have penned cars for firms since years. For example, all the best Peugeots were designed by Pininfarina and all the best Triumphs were designed by Michelotti.

@Armand4: Exactly. Maybe you're right though; maybe the British car is dead and we should just stop worrying about it.

@dwp: Yes, I knew that the Aston V12 was essentially two Duratec V6s. That's a decent enough engine though and it's been good enough for Noble for quite some time now.

Euromobile

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

FLB — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 08:24:58 EST

What is David Richards's middle name? Does it begin with an A? If it turns out he has a majority in a fund that controls 7% of Daimler, it might explain why Prodrive was going to use McLarens in F1, might it not?

Never read the sports pages nor the specialist press if you want to understand what's really going on in F1...

FLB

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

maxman927 — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 06:50:47 EST

@Schm:

we need asto to be it's own, i mean, merc quality hasn't been up to par lately and people spending that kind of money wont buy them if they aren't good.

maxman927

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

GreenVanMan — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 05:21:55 EST

@smokyburnout: i would be proud to park this in my driveway, with a hugemassive diesel V8.

GreenVanMan

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

smokyburnout — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 01:33:43 EST

@Armand4: we really arent looking good on the low-production sports car side of things... Saleen, Panoz and Shelby all rely on Ford to some degree, though they could probably go on without them...
Mosler doesn't really build cars, do they?
if Tesla doesnt completely fail with the Roadster, they could concievably outlast the Big 3, but to do so they'd probably have to expand their lineup with more mainstream, non-sports car things like the Whitestar...

smokyburnout

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

BlackIce_GTS — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 00:54:30 EST

@Mark Arnold: [www.trident-vehicles.co.uk]
Diesel V8 British sport/GT thing. Bristols are less ugly though.

BlackIce_GTS

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

Mark Arnold — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 23:55:43 EST

@smokyburnout: nice Aston Smartin

Mark Arnold

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

Number_Six — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 23:52:51 EST

@dwp: Yes, yes, yes. And it has worked well so far (other than the Jag motor in the V8 Vantage being a teeny bit embarrassed by the insane outputs of certain competitors).

Number_Six

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

dwp — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 23:35:12 EST

everyone realizes that the V12s in Astons are basically two Duratec V6s (which first made it to market in the not quite loved Ford Contour/Mondeo back in the day) which have been built in Germany for several years on a special niche line set up for them on Cologne, right ?

the V8s are a development of the Jag AJ-V8, tho I think it's more a situation where they share the architecture (bore spacing, etc) rather than any parts being interchangeable.

and that Aston has been run by a German (Ulrich Bez) for a number of years now, so is "German" engineered already ?

I'm not so sure that running AMG motors or sharing platforms makes all that much sense for Aston, they don't really need more power than they have now and if the wave of the future is lighter, smarter supercars (as Ferrari is pointing towards) then I dunno that MB has that sort of platform in mind given that the SL is sorta a pig weight-wise. but stranger things have happened.

dwp

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

Armand Bengle — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 23:30:54 EST

@smokyburnout: Yeah, pretty much. And we don't have little cottage-industry-type companies to carry the torch, either... Britain still has Morgan. If/when the big 3 implode, like British Leyland/Rover except bigger and messier, we won't have little handmade sportscars to keep our spirits up. Honestly, what will we do without Mustangs, Corvettes and stuff?

I suppose this whole thing brings up the question of national character in cars-- what makes an MG, Jag or Aston Martin British? Is America about muscle cars, or are muscle cars about America? Do Chinese cars just suck because Communism doesn't work, or is there another reason? Maybe we could make a QOTD out of that.

Armand Bengle

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

Number_Six — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 23:30:48 EST

This just seems wrong. I can't explain why. It's kind of like when I see Merlin-engined Me109s at airshows.

@BlackIce_GTS: Honestly, no. I have never even seen a Bristol in person but love the idea of them being out there.

Number_Six

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

mikedrawcar — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 23:14:59 EST

@smokyburnout: it would be harder to flip, this time

mikedrawcar

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

mikedrawcar — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 23:14:33 EST

@sos10: unfortunately, i don't have a name, but according to my source, who worked in the BMW studio at the time, it was done by a German. There's a good possibility that there were some Brits on the team as well, which justifies my point even more- just b/c somebody buys someone, doesn't mean they completely clean house (unless it's D-B buying Chrysler, but they were just being dicks) I'll get back to you on it.

mikedrawcar

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

smokyburnout — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 23:09:12 EST

@Armand4: see, that kind of conversation scares me (both here and on Top Gear) because the British motor industry seems to be what the American one will be like in a decade or two if certain companies I won't name (Chrysler and Ford) don't get their acts together...

smokyburnout

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

Armand Bengle — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 22:18:24 EST

@Euromobile: You've hit the nail on the head. I'm a grumpy old bastard too, and I don't want a damn German Aston. Besides the emotionally charged heritage issue, will Mercedes do something to stop Astons from competing head-on with SLs and CLs? I'm never going to be able to afford a DB9, and I don't plan on putting up with any bitching from anyone who can, but I think it would be tragic to see these cars lose any more of their "Britishness."

Although Morgans now use BMW engines, so perhaps Britihness is dead anyway. Hey, Mark, Bristol can go back to using Bimmer motors, like after the war when they used the 328's pushrod six! I'm sure they'd still be willing to build you a Cummins-engined Blenheim if you like... for a price.

Armand Bengle

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

FuzzyPlushroom — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 21:20:00 EST

Well, if Ford didn't kill 'em, Daimler-Benz sure won't.

FuzzyPlushroom

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

voodoojoo — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 21:14:23 EST

@Mark Arnold: That's hilarious. it makes me wonder though, what would be the best/worst/most hilarious automobile to put a Cummins diesel in. Maybe you could put it in an old Mercedes saloon for the bad pun factor (get it die-SEL? Like you hate the car? Anybody? Anybody? Beuler?) Anywho, bastarizations of cars with diesel seems very Jalop-appropriate.

voodoojoo

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

iVision — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 20:57:36 EST

I wish Jaguar got a lending hand too. Their power is lacking compared to other competitors.

iVision

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

smokyburnout — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 20:04:58 EST

@savethevipers:
Q: Now James, we've had some serious budget cuts, so please try not to wreck this one...

of course, something like that could help Aston survive in a 35 MPG world (or whatever the new Euro standards are...).

smokyburnout

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

sos10 — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 20:00:13 EST

@savethevipers: euh, it is owned by a german company, but I think it is designed by the brit Ian Cameron?

sos10

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

mikedrawcar — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 19:26:19 EST

@Euromobile: were you this concerned about heritage when Ford bought them? or when they bought Jaguar?
from what i've seen, heritage is more of a principle which is kept by endowing the spirit of the brand. It doesn't matter who owns it, as proven by the fact that Toyota trucks are made/designed in America, but are still "foreign", or Chrysler was owned by D-Benz, but still made a quintessential american muscle car. There are far more intricate dealings and processes that occur to get many of your favorite "heritage-rich" brands to market, that you might deem blasphemous if you actually knew about them. But you don't, so it doesn't matter. The Phantom was designed by a German- but does it still look/sound/feel like a big british car? yep.
So as long as the spirit of the brand is kept, and not switched to something else (Aston making Smart cars), it should be fine, if not better.

mikedrawcar

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

piththeelder — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 19:21:43 EST

Didn't Fisker already make an Aston out of a SLK? I think an AMG V12 will be better than two duratec's stuck together.

piththeelder

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

Euromobile — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 18:32:15 EST

@13thfloorelevator: Nothing, actually. I quite like them. A Bentley just shouldn't look like one that's let itself go.

I like your sleeper 75 idea...

Euromobile

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

13thfloorelevator — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 18:21:21 EST

@Euromobile: What's wrong with a Rover 75? Onea those Mustang V8 MG ones with all the chav-tastic trim replaced with proper grandad Rover trim would be sleeper-tastic! Especially with about 1000hp of tune-up parts on that big ole pushrod...

13thfloorelevator

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

wheels OF satan! — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 17:52:16 EST

packing?
fudge?
fudgepacking?
huh?

wheels OF satan!

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

Schm, lord of Torques! — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 17:24:43 EST

@maxman927: What exactaly? Do tell.

Schm, lord of Torques!

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

maxman927 — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 17:22:43 EST

no. this cannot happen.

maxman927

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

sos10 — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 16:56:27 EST

I see no problem here.. as long as they keep the AM identity as strong as it is now, I'm all for it. THink of AM without any foreign parts.. it simply wont exist.

sos10

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

Euromobile — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 16:38:33 EST

Cock. *VolksBentleys.

Euromobile

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

Euromobile — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 16:38:10 EST

@blazer: Fair comment, but they've made them look like VolkBentleys.

Euromobile

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

Schm, lord of Torques! — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 16:10:38 EST

@bmoredlj: Probally the same. Despite Mercedes/AMG quality shortcommings in other areas, their engines have always been pretty spot on. And i mean, Aston has never been exactly the pinnacle of reliability.

As this goes, well, AMs just got a hell of a lot quicker. This shouldent change much about Astons over all, i would be redicousuly supprised if MB bought Aston (which they wont). Platform sharing wouldent be that bad, i think, but is rather unlikely. Once you get up into super car territory, the underpinnings dosent really that much matter anymore.

Schm, lord of Torques!

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

blazer — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 15:56:37 EST

@Euromobile: only the gt and the flying spur are VW's, the RL and the others r still bentley's

blazer

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

Diospiro — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 15:46:08 EST

Finally good news, opening an Astin Martin with a Ford Fiesta key I assure you is not one of the best expperience I've tried. German allways did good cars
let's give them a try!

Diospiro

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

deadd0g — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 15:41:49 EST

Mercedes over ford... this is a no brainer. Ford should've called it quits when they were ahead (right after the last Model T rolled off the production line)

deadd0g

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

Euromobile — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 15:16:34 EST

DO NOT WANT!

I know I'm going to sound like one of those beardy bastards in a Val Doonican sweater and a brown store coat when I say this, but doesn't anyone care about heritage anymore? Especially when it comes to a prestigious brand with such a strong identity.

@goatrope: Deal? More like corporate buyout. Bentleys are now nothing more than Volkswagens for footballers; it also doesn't help that the Continental Flying Spur looks like a fat Rover 75.

Why can't cars be unique anymore? Ooooo, if anyone wants me I'll be in the angry dome!

Euromobile

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

goatrope — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 14:40:39 EST

The Bentley/VW deal worked out rather well, didn't it? Whatever it takes to keep Aston from going the way of TVR is fine by me.

goatrope

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

wonkydonky — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 14:14:35 EST

A well-selected German engine shouldn't be that bad. -Look what BMW's V12 did for McLaren.

wonkydonky

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

GDUB — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 13:55:46 EST

@DoctorNine: rebadged DB9 could have been a Mercury Cougar. sweet.

GDUB

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

bmoredlj — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 13:54:38 EST

Does this mean a bump, drop, or no change in reliability/quality?

bmoredlj

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

DoctorNine makes tires squeal in terror — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 13:47:34 EST

I still say Ford fucked up. They should have rebadged a DB9 for the US market when they had the chance, and they wouldn't be in the pickle they are in now. As far as Aston Martin going Merc, what other choices do they have? At least Daimler can produce quality product. I agree that the English and German design approaches have historically been light years apart, but that is changing. As they say in philosophy:

ALL THAT RISES MUST CONVERGE.

DoctorNine makes tires squeal in terror

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

Unevolved — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 13:39:53 EST

Do you think Mopar will keep making just the engines just like GMPerformance still makes old discontinued engines?

Unevolved

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

Mark Arnold — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 12:53:26 EST

@BlackIce_GTS: Yeah, but how many cars does Bristol actually make? You'd think they could just stock up and get like a decade's worth of V10s now.

Though I've gotta say, if I were ordering a Bristol, I'd ask if they could build it with a Cummins Diesel.

Mark Arnold

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

Unevolved — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 12:52:01 EST

@mwood10: I'm with you.

I don't care where they come from as long as they keep producing the same jaw-dropping results. I mean, it's not like they're brandsharing with Kia. Name one among us who despises the sound of a big-bore AMG V8. It's like a strange cross-breeding of Elisha Cuthbert and Jessica Alba. Nothing bad can come of this.

Unevolved

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

mwood10 — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 12:38:19 EST

As long as they still produce the best looking cars with the best sounding engines, I'll still love them. To be honest, they could probably do with a touch of German engineering...

mwood10

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

BlackIce_GTS — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 12:34:08 EST

I like it. AM65 Vantage. whee!
It seems like sort of a minor partnership, like Chrysler and Bristol*. The could do worse. And have.

*Will Chryslerbus keep selling V10s to Bristol after the Viper stops production? Am I the first person in the world to wonder about this?

BlackIce_GTS

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

Labcoatguy — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 12:28:35 EST

I dunno, the design philosophies of the DBs and the SLs are not that far apart, so with some cutaneous fudging, they could pull it off. It's not like they'll ever do an "Aston DB by Mercedes". If parts-sharing with AMG is good enough for Pagani, it's almost good enough for Aston.

Labcoatguy

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

skaz — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 12:21:24 EST

I don't mind the engine swappage, or the interior changes.. but platform sharing? With the Germans?

Jeezee creezee.

skaz

Future Aston Martins Packing Mercedes Power?

Comrade Teargaskov — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 12:16:14 EST

More bad news. Blasphemy, blasphemy, blasphemy.

Comrade Teargaskov