Maybe if US made a good looking wagon like this this one! we don't want am el-Camino or another lame ass SSR looking vehicle

remitter

Well Australians will be the winners in the end.
I wish we could share it with ya.

Skippy

DownUnder

a2jaz

NO WE DON'T FUCKING COOK SHRIMP ON THE BARBIE!!!
... FUCKEN HOGEN

LandofMinos, Don't you fucking look at me!

LandofMinos, Don't you fucking look at me!

mr.chophoppers

Marketing is easy. Comedy is hard.

Ben Wade

Toyota: no wagons
Honda: no wagons
GM: no wagons
Ford: no wagons
Chrysler: no wagons

In the US, wagons are a niche vehicle for niche manufacturers like Subaru, Audi, and Volvo. BMW and [new-school] Mercedes wagon sales are too small to even count here.

JHJVJR

GM could take a small risk here and bring the Commodore Wagon over, and potentially get into the wagon craze early when rising fuel prices and social trends reduce the demand for SUV's.

TRAMS_AM

Armand Bengle

EuropaBambaataa

I worked out the username scheme for gm.com and then Googled some reasonable permutations.

Good luck.

stu-rock

What address?

Mad_Science

I say give it a try.

stu-rock

lascauxcaveman

I'm tempted to email him a less vitriolic version of my comments here. Hell, I work as a systems-level engineer anyway, maybe he'll give me a job working on it.

Mad_Science

Don't give up on the idea of a sleek wagon from GM. We'll do it on a brand that we can sell around the world. "Watch this space". It will be geared primarily for Europe, but we will also offer it here.

stu-rock

DoctorNine makes tires squeal in terror

CEman

I'm impressed that he took the time to answer my e-mail. Still disappointed about the news, though.

stu-rock

e30 guy

amanz

I agree with you 100% on that, but the Holden wasn't un-wagon enough to have an image like the Magnum. Hence why I totally get cancelling US importation.

JHJVJR

I replaced my truck with a Magnum. My wife can drive it and it will tow a motorcycle trailer (which is all I needed the truck for). When we saw the G8 wagon, we thought it would be the Magnum replacement when that day came.

There is still a need/desire for cars with some storage space and minor towing capacity.

I keep reading here that the Magnum shed it's "wagon" stigma with a good looking design... so do that with other wagons. By this logic, SUV's should have died out after the Aztec ruined SUV styling in the minds of buyers.

TheTooth

What bothers me, is how much federalization would have to be done to this on top of the G8 sedan? And, wasn't GM planning on the Zeta platform to be a little more global this time around? I'm used to this by now (we didn't get the Monaro-based GTO in Canada, which still stings), but it's disappointing.

Maymar is convinced M.C. Escher engineered his car

Tomsk the red-nosed reindeer

There's no denying that wagons and CUVs cannibalize each other's sales. With every passing generation CUVs/SUVs get more car-like, and are slowly becoming wagons.

I think wagons would sell just fine, as if you take the basic chassis under most CUVs and put it in a car that's 12" shorter, you'll get way better mileage and handling.

You'll win on the rational buy (3-5mpg is big enough to drive a decision), and you can win on the emotional buy, much like the Magnum did with a hi-po V8.

Mad_Science

JHJVJR

"Re: sales:
Bullshit. I live in the car capital of the motherf*cking world (LA) and I see wagons everywhere. Old Volvos and MBs, tons of Subarus, tons of Magnums, and quite a few new MBs."

I also see tons of Magnums everywhere, but the Magnum styling overcomes the wagon stigma. I also see tons of old wagons driven by the older crowd, of all brands (seems mostly Mercedes and Buick). I don't see many new Mercedes wagons though. My understanding is that the E-class wagons sell next to nil nowadays, and the R-class is even admitted by Mercedes to be a disaster.

JHJVJR

I like: Dodge Magnum, Ford Verve concept, Volvo C30

I hate: Audi A3, all Mercedes wagons, Mercedes R-Class, all BMW wagons, Honda Fit, Chevrolet Aveo Hatch, Nissan Versa Hatch, Toyota Yaris Hatch, Subaru Wagons/hatches

JHJVJR

@rlj676: Exactly. I'm 25, I'm a young, affluent buyer whose brand loyalty is up for grabs. People come to me for car advice.

...And I own two station wagons: An '06 WRX and a 67 Ford Country Sedan (that I use in place of a pickup - it's got more room). To me, wagons are cool, minivans blah and SUVs (crossovers in particular) are trash. I would've bought a Magnum, but they don't come in a stick.

My WRX was going to be replaced by a G8 wagon in about 2010. That was seriously my plan. Now? Dunno, but I might intentionally avoid GM over this.

Re: sales:
Bullshit. I live in the car capital of the motherf*cking world (LA) and I see wagons everywhere. Old Volvos and MBs, tons of Subarus, tons of Magnums, and quite a few new MBs.

Mad_Science

phocques

JHJVJR

I live in just about the bluest state around, and there are very few wagons and hatches. Also, I'm 26, all my friends drive subcompacts, and none of them drive wagons or hatches. There actually used to be more hatches when the little, low three door Civic hatches were still being made because some people were racing them. All of the people going on about tons of wagons and hatches in their region of the country, are way overblowing the difference. In Detroit, wagons/hatches might be 1% of the market. Maybe in the areas these posters are talking about, they are 10% of the market, due to acceptance in the latte hipster market. There still aren't that any of them.

I'd like to see how many wagons Mercedes and BMW sell total, nationwide. I bet it isn't that many. And remember, the majority Americans live in "blue" areas.

JHJVJR

JHJVJR

Then again, Detroit bases it's strategy on Red State tastes. As stated earlier, wagons and hatches flourish in Blue State America.

SCROGGZILLA RAIDS AGAIN!!

I don't have a family, and I'm not afraid anyone will think "family car" when they see my car. Anyways, when did it become so incredibly unpopular to have a family?

Just bite the bullet, crash test the damn thing and bring me one with a 6 speed in it. Leave the Holden emblems in the wayback, I'll be re-installing them when it gets here.

squablow

JHJVJR

JHJVJR

Mad_Science

I'm a Seattle transplant from SoCal, and the wagons are as abundant as C class benzes were down there...

AND I';m blown away by the number of S4 and RS4s I see around here too, including avants...

Seriously as it's been mentioned they could convert a few, treat them like the first year GTO, limited numbers etc. and I'm sure would sell them just fine.. and if not, shit they made the GTO mistake for what 3 years??

om Bronx de Mowgli

IamZardoz

Hatches have a negative "too broke to afford a real car" connotation in the US. Some cars have been able to shake this with unique styling, like the MINI. The Audi A3 has shaken it to some degree, but only among the latte hipster crowd. Honda has been able to sell 50,000 fits over 12 months of availability, but that number is nowhere near the number of subcompact sedans sold by most manufacturers. Even the very mediocre Chevrolet Aveo outsells it due to being available as a sedan. The Fit has gained a following among those looking to be somewhat countercultural and thrifty, or pro-enviro. But most hatches to most Americans still mean "broke driver".

JHJVJR

lascauxcaveman

It must a be a regional (Seattle area) thing, but I see them (and Mercedes wagons, and Audi wagons and Saab 9-5 wagons and even Magnums) every day.

And Subaru wagons? Twenty or thirty a day, not counting my wife's Legacy wagon.

So Bob sayin' "It won't sell" means "It'll compete too much with our more profitable crossovers."

lascauxcaveman

Maybe not in Detroit, but I see all of the above (and Subaru, Volvo, etc wagons) all the time around here. "Around here" being the Seattle/Redmond, WA area. I don't want to exaggerate and say they're as common as the sedans, but they are by no means rare.

turbodan

TPSreports

I've never driven a Chrysler LX car. The weekend after this upcoming one (not this weekend—Packers are in the NFC championship!), I'm going to find one and test drive it.

I have to say, I'm still sour about this news from Lutz 12 hours after reading it. It's the most disappointing car news I've heard in a long time.

stu-rock

Octane Magazine did a story about an Aston Martin DBS shooting brake, which apparently turned out hugely expensive. Of course any work on an Aston would be. Still a good looking car. I can't find a picture from the article but this is the car.

[autonovita.blogosfere.it]

j6r

FrozenRoo

lascauxcaveman

Unless you are one of those people who don't believe in conspiracy theories, this makes perfect sense.
And if you ARE one of those people, then remember: we know who you are. And we know where you live.

Save the waggins!

biminitwst

Now, to justify such a deed with the spousal unit...

You know, others mentioned CAFE standards as an issue in this, but couldn't they rework the wagons to qualify as "trucks" in their product lineup? That's what Chrysler did with the PT Cruiser, and look how well that scam worked.

thunder

Not that I want more trucks on the road. No sir.

hwyengr

boognish

Don't expect Maximum to hang around for the post-coital cigarette.

-chet

If the image of the wagon were its only problem, how do you explain the rise and fall of the minivan?

hapless

htrodblder

Paul Y. can't think of a better, shorter handle

The Name's Ash78, Housewares

quayzar

Personally, I am very disappointed by this move. I really was set to buy a G8 wagon. I'm either going to depend on my mechanical skills to keep my 13-year old wagon going or I'll pick something out from the dregs of the Magnum production.

stu-rock

@iantm: Someone actually believed those ads?

TurboBrick

j6r

There, I feel better already.

Pinkerton

Triborough

The wagon is cool. Though, the typical Pontiac buyer wouldn't appreciate a wagon that didn't have ridiculous amounts of body cladding on it. (most pontiac owners I know have some kind of delusion that they are driving the "american bmw" - common with grand am drivers, but worse in the case of sunfire owners)

iantm

DoctorNine makes tires squeal in terror

JantheMan

Wagons will eventually come full circle, crossovers and increasing gas prices are step 1.

rlj676-new job, same problems

SuperRad427

NovaloadMissesPolar

People accepted the coffee table for its high clearence and comfortable way of not to use energy by moving to a sitting position. Smarter version with chairs that strongly reminded the visitor of an ordinary barstool but was called coffee table chair started to emerge. The user could now slide sideways and sort of semi-sit on this new chair and the popularity. What the evil forces now did was to get the ordinary human beeing to unwilingly adjust itself without knowing to this high tables and slide-sit movement to reduce energy. The easiest market was of course the United States that has suffered hard under the influence of President R. McDonald. The product was named SUV shortened for Slugging Unitedstatesofamericans Veins and was greeted by the unknowing crowd. The only proof that is left to the unblided one is the coincidence of the coffee bean Arabica, the slide-sit move, the high coffee table and the SUV (you can see this most on the slide sit move and the some what higher rear dorr with has the height of a coffee table). To mock its victims the creators called it....the CAFE....

all true...must be, can't be circumstances

JantheMan

badco/LoJ

htrodblder

UDMan

JantheMan

I think I would fall into that wagon niche once I start a family...having a Holden-based LSX V8 wagon is much more appealing to me than driving a soulless SUV.

SRekauqh

DoctorNine makes tires squeal in terror

One big reason for this is that Trucks achieve a lower rating, and they need all the help from those smaller CUV's and Wagons. Most of the European Wagons are still classified as cars for CAFE purposes, but the Asian manufacturers learned early not to buck the trend. Sad day all around.

UDMan

And it goes something like this….

Terrance: Shut your fucking face wagon fucka
You're a cock sucking ass licking wagon fucka
You're a wagon fucka, yes its true
Nobody fucks wagons quite like you

Phillip: Shut your fucking face wagon fucka
You're the one that fucked our wagon, wagon fucka
You dont eat or sleep or mow the lawn,
You just fuck the wagons all day long

(farting noises) Beeerverbeeber Beeber
Terrance: Hmm!
(farting noises) Beeeverbevurp Veeeeeepurr
(laughing)
(farting noises) Beevurper Beevurp
Mountie: What's going on here?
(farting noises) vurrrrrrr
People: OOOoooooooooooooh

Wagon fucker, wagon fucker, wagon fucker, wagon fucker, wagon fucker

T & P: Shut your fucking face wagon uncle fucka (Terrance: wagon fucka)

Terrance: You're a boner biting bastard wagon fucka
Phillip: You're a wagon fucka I must say
Terrance: Well you fucked our wagon needs today
Everyone: (laughing)
People: Wagon fucka... thats
Everyone: W-A-G-O-N fuck you wagon Fuckaaaaaa tonight...

Phillip: Suck my balls!

POLAЯMISSESEVEЯYBODY

You never count your beans
When you're showin' at the Cobo
There's still time enough for product change
Thank you, GM f*cks

The Name's Ash78, Housewares

JHJVJR

As for the BMW, Mercedes, and Audi Wagons, I live in New Jersey and I probably see only a few a year total of these. They are also probably the only wagons I see at all, except some old people driving really old Buick Roadmasters, etc. And of the tiny number of people that buy these, none of them are going to cross-shop Pontiac.

JHJVJR

I think ash78 hit it on the head. Why sell wagons when crossovers are the hot new sellers?

JohnnyWagon

Parramore64

Iron-Balls McGinty

Word. I hope they read this loud and clear--I'd rather spend an extra (potential) $1k in annual maintenance on a Jetta Wagon than buy one of their sedans or crossovers, which will probably depreciate at least an extra $1k anyway.

The Name's Ash78, Housewares

EHS

I'll tell you what's even less "fashionable" than wagons: 76 year old Swiss gasbags trying to talk about what's "fashionable."

Oh, and he's wrong. Increasing fuel economy by ONE mpg across the GM model line will increase the sticker price by "one MILLion dollars" per car (puts pinky to lips).

bmoredlj

boognish

The argument for protecting sales of crossdresser utility vehicles though is valid. Does this mean we can start waiting for Aztek Mark II in the future?

TurboBrick

htrodblder

dolo54

Perhaps if companies put a tenth of the money spent on crossovers and suvs towards making a worthy sportwagon and promoting the benefits of them over crossovers and suvs then they might just sell a few more.

It's sad when I can only look at a 2004-2005 S4 Avant as the only reasonable sportwagon option to replace my current car.

I don't really understand why GM thinks us 'mericans will accept an -amino, er..uh, I mean ute, but will not accept a sportwagon.

Miscellanea, now on the main floor!

Paul Y. can't think of a better, shorter handle

Screw GM. Wagons only aren't fashionable if the manufacturer actually calls it a "wagon." Call it a "crossover" (whatever the hell that actually means), and people will line up around the block to buy it because they're idiots.

The day someone actually convinces me that a wagon is different from a "crossover," will be the day my life has lost all meaning.

I secretly want a BMW or Mercedes wagon, however. Audi wagons aren't that odd, and Volvo and Subaru make a good chunk of their business off them. It's not that people won't buy them, it's that only smart people will, which pretty much rules out Pontiac customers.

Paul Y. can't think of a better, shorter handle

WarShrike

As for BMW, Audi, and Mercedes wagons - I actually see them quite often. Of course, I live in a moderately liberal urban area. I see more Audi A6 and BMW 5 series wagons than I do Escalades. Back by where my parents live - it's the other way around.

iantm

Comrade Teargaskov

wyatt_1st

Reading between the lines, I'm sure they also see this as a cannibalistic threat to their precious crossovers.

The Name's Ash78, Housewares

wyatt_1st