<![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top - Jalopnik Comments]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top - Jalopnik Comments]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> I will rather be seen driving an old beat up gm truck or car than an ugly tiny can of sardines. Even though i accept asian cars are taking over and may be more realible, nothing takes away the proudness and the feeling of driving a true american pride vehicle.
Last fact,,,,asian cars are butt ugly!!!

chevyfever

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> I don't see the point for GM fans or hardcore domestic automobile purchasers to celebrate anything yet. Especially if these two company's end up playing hot potato with the rankings of #1 spot and #2 spot.

Now if Ford or Chrysler closes in on Toyota while GM is still in the #1 spot then that is something worth taking notice of because it means Toyota isn't attracting the same amount of new buyers as we've seen in the last year or more and the domestics may be making a comeback.

Until there is more data to make a determination I'm sticking with my hypothesis of there only being x amount of automobile purchasers out there each month and Toyota MAY be nearing the ceiling of attracting new customers, at least for the time being. Now, with the quality improvements made recently by GM, and Ford, some buyers MAY eventually be persuaded back to the domestic side. (This is all speculation obviously).

Nightwing

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> @grzydj:

Before or after they launch a vehicle?

i was not kidding when I said Toyota knew about problems with their trans. Sort of ridiculous to launch a car with known problems.

"Lentz said he was not surprised that the Camry V6 was on the list as it had a transmission flaw that Toyota was aware of.
"We knew in the very beginning we had a transmission issue with that vehicle," he said. The problem caused the transmission to get stuck in second gear or pass through second gear roughly. However, Lentz doesn't feel the flaw will impact Toyota's reputation for quality. "I don't think it's going to have a long-term impact on the overall view of Toyota as a reliable product," Lentz said."

bob9

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> I'm old enough to remember when Made in Japan meant cheap, then meant really well made, and now means a roll of the dice. Also old enough to remember when any union job parking lot, construction or otherwise, only had American vehicles parked in it at the risk of the most severe ostracism. Now it's interesting that Toyotas are made in the US and US cars are farmed out and piecemeal. The global economy really has complicated all the equations--but I'm still glad that GM seems to have stepped up. The last time I called FoMoCo HQ and asked for "Quality Control" they gave me the legal department!

NovaloadMissesPolar

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> @JayP71: Alas, it seems my efforts to curtail yet another identical round of commentary have failed.

Although, in all fairness my favorite car is a motorcycle captures my thoughts on the topic perfectly.

Mad_Science

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> I'm just astonished that people keep bringing up the "transportation appliance" thing, like most of GM's product lineup is really any different. Except for the Corvette and upcoming Camaro, you've got a lot of uninteresting cars all the way around. And honestly, the vast majority of consumers don't care, or even if they do care they'll still go for the better overall value.

And while GM may have sold more cars over the past few months, does this indicate an overall change in GM's market performance, or is it a statistical anomaly and Toyota will regain the number one spot shortly?

elwood

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> @Mad_Science: Oh sure, take the fun out of it for everybody...:)

JayP71

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> GM's biggest hurdle to overcome in North America is not Toyota, but itself. Did anyone buying a new GM last month really care that they weren't number one? Which leads to the problem, why buy a new GM when the resale value of one just a year old is a sad reflection of their product perception?
@niterunner: They have better improved on the reliability as well as looks. I know people who will not drive their first gen. CTS' long distances for fear of being left stranded, but for the very reason I mentioned above, they won't trade the catastrophic failures for catastrophic resale loss.

Automanic

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> Let's be more objective about this:

Toyota has a reputation for building quality products, but GM is obviously coming back stronger than ever. CR-followers have taken note that Toyota isn't the untouchable standard that some people imagine it to be. That's influencing a small relative increase in GM sales, but it's not the biggest factor.

Indisputably the biggest factor in vehicle sales is styling, since the automobile is a fashion industry. The styling department is where Toyota, not to mention Cerberus & Ford & Honda, has fallen on its sword. GM in the last few years have introduced several styling hits. Going small to large:
- The Solstice is almost as good as the best-in-class Miata -- better according to many. Toyota has no response.
- Corolla sales are flat as Toyota's aging design is trumped handily by Honda's Fit. American automakers seem not to want to play in the subcompact market in the USA, but they're powerful players in Asia and Europe.
- Toyota introduces the new Camry, and legions of appliance fans shake their heads in disgust -- now it's ugly and bland at the same time. In contrast, the Saturn Aura and the upcoming Chevy Malibu are receiving significant praise from everyone who's evaluated 'em.
- On the sports car front, GM is not only capturing the nostalgia crowd with a retro muscle car while also releasing a real cutting-edge sportscar, the Corvette ZR-1 Blue Devil. Toyota, in contrast, is fiddling with a future Lexus release which, by all accounts, will be a fine vehicle, if not a hot seller. It simply can't appeal to the mass market (remember, we're talking auto fashion here).
- Trucks - Toyota is playing a good game, but GM again can easily claim superiority. American automakers know that ceding this market would signal the beginning of the end. That's not going to happen anytime soon.

Hurrah for both GM and Toyota. GM needed a challenge, and it has one. But right now, if one were to look for a high-quality, decent but unassuming vehicle, GM is the first place to shop in the USA, followed by Honda. Toyota simply doesn't have a significantly better value proposition right now, and life is too short to drive an ugly bland car.

my favorite car is a motorcycle

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> On my commute home yesterday i saw 6 new CTS' prowling the streets of LA. If GM can continue to make progress like this staying #1 won't be very hard. That Caddy is an awesome looking car. Nothing made by Toyota comes close to having such inspiring designs (I say this as a driver of a Toyota product).

niterunner

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> @TurboBrick:

Nothing at all in fact.

grzydj

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> @TurboBrick: God knows there are days that I regret that my car (a 850 Turbo with a 17psi chip) isn't RWD. I somehow managed to go through front tires in 10K miles and I didn't even have any tail-out hoonage to show for it. BMW needs to buy Volvo already and build the next S40 on the 1-series platform!

Eric Lai

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> Quality issues can be have a pretty wide range, if you think about it - anything from a failing tailgate to a failing transmission. My parents bought a Camry and a Accord V6 in the first couple years of their runs (1998), and although Honda and Toyota have been great about doing goodwill repairs, both have suffered major mechanical failures. The Toyota had the I4 and a bad sludge problem, even with documented oil changes every 3-5K. The Accord's torque converter went out after about 105K. The Toyota was fixed free and the Accord for just a couple hundred dollars, but this goes to show that the whole aura of quality associated with Japanese makes isn't infallible.

GM makes some of the best transmission in the business (used in the S80 and 5-series and even the Ferrari 400i) and the 3800 V6 and LS/Vortec V8s are incredibly well designed and stout engines, even if the technology goes back to a time when Toyotas weren't even sold here. Meanwhile ... it's evident that Toyota rushed their new Camry/ES V6 6-speed auto to market and some are failing with under 1,000 miles on the odo.

Chevy will have Camrys in the dealer alongside the new Malibu. Combine Toyota's slipping quality and what's hopefully an all-out effort from the new Malibu, and GM might just have something here.

Eric Lai

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> Ugh, another Toyota vs. GM "debate". "My mom owned a Cavalier/Corlla that ran 300miles blah blah..." It's like arguing a Kennmore is better than a Maytag; who gives shit.

Benson2175

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> @grzydj: What's wrong with long platform lives? Volvo spent thirty years polishing their RWD brick and since then they haven't even come close to the reliability of that design.

TurboBrick

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> By the way Toyotaboy, didnt Toyota just settle a class action lawsuit on engine sludging in 1.2 million, yes million cars. I thought it interesting how it so quietly slipped under the radar. We cxan debate GM vs Toyota all day. The fact is had GM kept their eye on the ball ten years ago like they are doing now, Toyota sales would barely pass Honda.

htrodblder

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> @Mad_Science: @bob9: hee hee hee! go get 'em, tigers!
but seriously, I have never liked Toyota. Why can't a car be reliable AND interesting? Now that the reliable part has been jettisoned in pursuit of world domination, what's left? The driving enjoyment of a Corolla? The pride of ownership of an Avalon?

abgwin

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> @bob9:

They sure did, but Toyota still captured 44% of the recommended vehicles. Toyota has admitted that they're having quality control issues. It's not like Toyota to rest on their laurels and just let their sterling reputation slip away, they'll fix their reliability issues.

grzydj

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> @toyotaboy:

Yes, as is Toyota's choice to market nearly all of their cars worldwide under the Toyota brand? Big deal, that has no impact on this.

I'm pretty sure to the contrary if GM could kill some of their brands it would improve product and increase sales. Unfortunately franchise laws prevent this from being feasible.

Also, out of curiosity, are you of age to drive? I ask because of a few things: strange love for appliance vehicles indicating never been behind the wheel, "boy" in the name, and "I'd drive" indicating maybe you can't yet? If this is the case you may change your mind on jumping on the Toyota bandwagon once behind the wheel of one of these geezer mobiles.

rlj676-new job, same problems

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> @toyotaboy:

Didn't CR just screw the butthole closed on quality at Toyota? Didn't I read that tailgates are failing on a truck already plagued with problems?

Didn't I read that Toyota knew about the trans problems and still launched the car.

GO TOYOTA!

bob9

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> @lascauxcaveman: ...or how so many Toyotas are made in the US and so many GM products are made in Canada and Mexico that the term "domestic" should, in fact go in quotes.

...or how Toyota doesn't have the UAW and healthcare problems (not sure exactly how it fits into sales at the moment)

...or how Toyotas are transportation appliances, while GM products are more interesting.

...or how GM's making a real quality and desirability comeback, but too many people are behaving like sheep and going back to Toyota.

...or how GM needs to move beyond evil trucks and SUVs and be more green, like Toyota.

...or a series of stories about how "my brother's 92 olds was the biggest piece of crap ever. Sold it for a Corolla and never looked back" (or the reverse).

...pretty much covers the go-to topics, right?

Mad_Science

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> @ranwhenparked:

Buick's reliability ratings can be attributed to the fact that their platforms have been around since the Regan administration. I sure hope that they would be reliable by now.

grzydj

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> This would probably be a really good place to insert a rant about how all Prius drivers are smug, hypocritical bastards, and how Hummers are actually better for the environment, wouldn't it?

lascauxcaveman

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> @toyotaboy:

Drop Fiat from the GM column, they sold their shares years ago. Ditto Suzuki.

As for Toyota over GM, I'm a stickler for value and quality, so these days, I'd take the GM product. 10 years ago, it would have been Toyota, but these days, the Buick's commitment to fit and finish is almost pathological. The Lucerne and LaCrosse are far better made than the Avalon and Camry, and don't hold their value as well, so they're a fantastic value on the 1-2 year old second hand market.

ranwhenparked

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> Big whoop. How much coin does GM have in the bank?

grzydj

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> It's a bit early for any conclusions.
We should measure car sales on a daily basis and see who sells more on one day and who sells more the next day and so on...

sos10

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> The government of Rolithica will stop at nothing to protect their position.

Mothra will be coming to get the girls any day now.

TinaChow

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> Ooh, GM beat toyota by 60k vehicles. Not a hard task considering GM owns:
-Buick
-Cadillac
-Chevrolet
-Daewoo
-Fiat)
-GMC
-Holden
-Hummer
-Opel
-Pontiac
-Saab
-Saturn
-Suzuki
-Vauxhall

Toyota owns:
-Daihatsu
-Fuji Heavy Industries
-Isuzu
-Lexus
-Scion
-Toyota

This is a minor setback until they clear up the problems with their V-8's in the trucks and camry's.

Enjoy the spotlight this quarter GM, it won't last. I like how american cars can have 50 problems from the factory and people still buy them, yet toyota can have one design flaw and people are up in arms. I'd still drive a toyota over any american car.

toyotaboy

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> America, FUCK YEAH!
Coming again, to save the mother fucking day yeah,
America, FUCK YEAH!
Freedom is the only way yeah,
Terrorist your game is through cause now you have to answer too,
America, FUCK YEAH!
So lick my butt, and suck on my balls,
America, FUCK YEAH!
What you going to do when we come for you now,
it's the dream that we all share; it's the hope for tomorrow

FUCK YEAH!

McDonalds, FUCK YEAH!
Wal-Mart, FUCK YEAH!
The Gap, FUCK YEAH!
Baseball, FUCK YEAH!
NFL, FUCK, YEAH!
Rock and roll, FUCK YEAH!
The Internet, FUCK YEAH!
Slavery, FUCK YEAH!

FUCK YEAH!

Starbucks, FUCK YEAH!
Disney world, FUCK YEAH!
Porno, FUCK YEAH!
Valium, FUCK YEAH!
Reeboks, FUCK YEAH!
Fake Tits, FUCK YEAH!
Sushi, FUCK YEAH!
Taco Bell, FUCK YEAH!
Rodeos, FUCK YEAH!
Bed bath and beyond (Fuck yeah, Fuck yeah)

Liberty, FUCK YEAH!
White Slips, FUCK YEAH!
The Alamo, FUCK YEAH!
Band-aids, FUCK YEAH!
Las Vegas, FUCK YEAH!
Christmas, FUCK YEAH!
Immigrants, FUCK YEAH!
Popeye, FUCK YEAH!
Democrats, FUCK YEAH!
Republicans (republicans)
(fuck yeah, fuck yeah)
Sportsmanship
Books

TheGuinnessTooth

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> OH please, Toyota- like Wal*Mart- is poised for a resounding thud when it trips off it's pedistal of lithium ion batteries.

Trevor

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> @brownie: Er, "...bring me my American flag..."

brownie

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> You cant help but wonder where that number would be if Toyota actully built a nice looking truck.

htrodblder

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> Quick! Someone bring my me American flag so I can wank.

brownie

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> "Mothra." Ha.

Andrewpetty

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> Once again Toyota shows their superiority over GM by proving they can lose grip on the number one car maker braging rights faster than GM could ever imagine.

POLAЯMISSESEVEЯYBODY

]]> <![CDATA[Toyota #2: GM Back on Top]]> w00t!

bob9

]]>