Xdfreak

Saboth

And I don't want anyone to get the idea that I'm all for cops doing just whatever they want; I'm no fascist. Their enforcement idea here is probably only marginally legal, but will probably have an effect.

I'm merely refusing to see street racers with stolen bits in their cars as 'victims' in any way, shape or form.

lascauxcaveman

Turboner

@danio3834: I agree with everything you said, and applaud your passion against the man. But you've seen The Fast and the Furious, which means we can't hang anymore, bro ;)

@knute: "What? The land of the free? Whoever told you, THAT is your enemy..."

@dculberson: Good point. I choose to drive my wife's Casablanca White A6 2.7 Biturbo on long freeway trips through populated areas not because it's more comfortable and gets better mileage, but because I can go 80MPH and cops don' t even budge. I'm fucking INVISIBLE! My 95 AWD turbo Talon, I have to take out in the country to have fun with it, or I get pulled over doing speedlimit+5. Both cars are stock, pull hard and hit 125+ on the front straight at PIR, both handle well, yet one is "profiled" by cops and drivers alike. I get no respect in the Talon if I want to merge, change lanes, etc. Also, if my skin was a different color, the Audi woudln't fly so well, I don't think.

@lascauxcaveman: I'm against street racing, but it's so wasteful. Why crush it? Why not auction it off, minus the stolen parts? I don't agree with the principle behind drug seizure laws, upon which these are based. If someone gets raped in the perp's house or car, they don't take it! Enron wasn't crushed and thrown on the pile! There was an animal sex ring broken up in Enumclaw, WA, and they didn't take the farm! Where's the parity? (That last part is true and gross, their story was "blown" becaues a guy got killed by an Arabian Stallion, the horse was the top!)

Don't get me wrong, I like to have fun (@7/10ths or less) in my cars, safely, out of dense population areas. If I want anything more, I go to the track. Street Racing has evolved into a dangerous game of intense one-upsmanship. Those guys don't seem to know the limits anymore. They need to learn the consequences of putting others at risk, but this smacks of lopsided and unfair punishment, using dubious prosecution methods.

Turboner

squablow

89_5_o

Nightwing

Jeez...

Jonny Lieberman

zolielo

So if the original owner didn't want the parts back and assuming they didn't give the parts to the insurance company before crushing the cars then I certainly wouldn't want to see the police turn a blind eye to these stolen goods and just fine the kids. The cars used the stolen parts so feel free to do what you want with them. Even though the law enforcement could make money selling these cars there is a better message being sent to these kids when they see their precious "grown-up toys" destroyed.

So, I for one don't mind when law enforcement gets a little rough with criminals or people who break the law. Recent history has taught repeat offenders don't care about do process unless they're on trial. They don't care the 4th amendment is there to give people privacy in their homes, they break in anyway. They don't care a vehicle can be used as a weapon, they drive like nuts anyway. I've experienced that coming back
late at night on the highway.

I think the types of punishments mentioned in this article should be reserved for the more serious, repeat offenders. However, the cars with the stolen parts should definitely carry the more serious punishment. Can you really see local law enforcement taking the time and spending the resources to chop up these cars for the individual parts? If so are you willing to pay the extra $ in tax dollars and say along with these racers, "tough sh*t officer, that's what you have to do or just give me back my car?" There reaches a point where you have to stop looking at these cars as just someone's property and as an object or tool that is being used to cause harm to others; these are pieces of machinery used purposely in a dangerous fashion on public roads.

Nightwing

Seriously, there is a crazy cat lady in my neighborhood, you'd be surprised.

What about pollen? Shouldn't we be working on something to eliminate that? Get a clue and get off of my smoking back since I do it in a fashion that doesn't hurt anyone but myself.

pres_has something cool after his name too.

1. If you want to compare smoking to shitting your pants in public then that's your problem.

2. Cat dander is not a public health risk, and i have never ran into a cat owner whose response to someone who was allergic to cats was to stuff a cat in your face.

3. It isn't a "one-sided" definition of freedom. It's the definition of freedom used by the most "absolute liberty"-loving nutcases there are, save maybe outright anarchists.

Shapeshifter

Should he be fined? Should we all be taxed determined on how much we fart? Maybe a new tax should be initiated on Mexican food and any food containing beans, to attempt to get people to stop eating gassy foods, because it makes me sick.

It's fine that you have your one-sided view of freedom, and I'm sorry that you're allergic to my cigarette smoke, but honestly, would you insist that someone be fined if you were allergic to cats and a couple of 'em just got into a fight, throwing dander into the air?

I know it's not as common but, y'know, so is me blowing smoke in someone's face. It's also uncommon for me to smoke in a walk way when other people are there. It's rare that I light up on a public sidewalk.

skaz

@dculberson:
Amen, again.

I occasionally do bad stuff, when nobody is around to get hurt that is, but even if i got caught i would at most get a hefty fine and suchlike. They're not going to confiscate and crush my ride.

I don't fit the profile.

Regarding anti-smoking laws: i'm all in favor of them. Fucking jackasses who think its their right to dictate to me what my air quality is can go to hell. You're going to say "go somewhere where people don't smoke"? Where is that? In my house? That's the only place, without some sort of smoking ban--which you don't like. Why do i have to be confined to my house so you can enjoy your nicotine? If you're the one who wants to smoke why do i have to lose my freedom to enable that?

I'm allergic to cigarettes, so this is not some minor detail. It is important.

(Strangely, i don't like most drug laws. I think the whole "war on drugs" thing is a disaster, for instance. But jerks going around acting all entitled about essentially giving me allergic asphyxiation whenever they damn well please sets me off. As the old saying goes, your right to swing your fist ends at my nose. Except it's "your right to smoke your shit ends at my nose" instead.)

Incidentally, our airport security isn't. It is a useless system set up to make us feel safe without actually bothering to make us actually safe.

See, ie, the opinions of noted security experts on the matter.

Shapeshifter

You have a legitimate point - maybe. We don't know enough details in this case to really know. I'm thinking most SoCal cops have seen the movie "Fast And Furious" and would be inclined to impound the white guy just as hard. (Especially if he had a shaved head.) I'm guessing there are enough offenders out there that the cops are cherry-picking just the worst ones, or maybe, as you suggest, just the brown ones. That's not fair of course, but the idea is the public message this sends, not the actual punishment of the offender.

As someone who used to work for the airlines (sometimes in a security function) I'm gonna tell you that racial profiling happens all the time, though unofficially. Why? Because it works. That made me a bit a of a racist, and most cops are too, like it or not. And one of the reasons I got out of that racket is because I didn't really feel comfortable in a position where I had to think like a racist to get the job done. (Well, that and the recurring nightmares about murdering my co-workers).

Are some relatively innocent kids going to get their cars compacted? Hmmm, probably. (Mr. Hoang was only guilty of receiving stolen goods - Oh, and a little high-speed hooning on public streets.) Is the stolen tranny ever going to be returned to its rightful owner? Nope. Is the compacting of offenders cars a bit draconian? Yes. Am I beginning to sound like Donald Rumsfeld here? Oh mercy my, yes.

When a problem gets out of hand, as its seems to be where this story takes place, I say let the cops do their dirty job, and as visibly and publicly as possible, hopefully reducing the problem.

lascauxcaveman

On the children point, I didn't really have much of an argument. Baby seats are important but it's an individual's decision. If they let the kid die then they're on the hook for manslaughter, how about that?

I'm not talking about Tijuana, but even in Mexico city their big problem wasn't cars - it was industrial expansion, which is vital for national growth - and they got over it.

Do we need airport security? Absolutely. Do I believe in a neocon agenda? Of course, everyone has an agenda. Conspiracy? No. I don't believe there's a conspiracy - although your twisting of words talent must be at like.. 180 skill now.

I know freedom isn't absolute, I can't shoot anyone for the sake of it here and now without reprimand. But letting us turn into a nanny state/totalitarian nation in the name of safety is outrageous.

skaz

Really? I should go somewhere else? What about the freedom and liberty of anyone besides you? You do realize that a neighborhood committee IS a form of government. But that's okay with you? Yes? And that's exactly the level on which this started in the late 80s, forming the basis for anti-smoking legislation on the state level.

"What the fuck is wrong with you? Like people are just leaving babies on dashboards or that's how it once was? Come the fuck on - that's ludicrous. People care for the safety of children, that's just how it goes."

I'm not sure of your point. Yes, people sometimes don't take care of their children.

"Been to Mexico, at least right on the border? There's lots of problems there but not a single one of them is cars shooting soot out into the air and choking everyone, despite the fact that every car you see is 25+ years old and beaten to shit."

You sound like you're talking about Tijuanna possibly. I don't know about what kind of rush hour congestion they deal with. However, if you have been to Mexico city any time pre 1995, I think you'd get a better understanding of things. Same with most European cities and the crappy soot they used to have to scrape off of their buildings before emission standards.

"...Or are you just using hyperbolic scare tactics (just like neocons) to scare us into your perfectly free nanny society?"

Are you serious that you don't see the need for airport security? If you think that this is a huge "neocon" conspiracy, that's fine. Wear your tinfoil helmet. The government won't get into your head that way.

Like it or not, you do have to live among others and freedom is not an absolute. You can't drive a race a car with stolen parts and then cry foul when you get caught.

adidascrosscountry

Skydiver

Seriously, doesn't an Integra Type-R have like a 1 in 6 chance of being stolen every year?

TechnoDestructo

crewcutkid

2trips

JayP71

We live in the face of Danger all day long. Let's not ruin our lives over it.

This is another reason to run, so more people will now haul-ass from the cops. Likely causing more death and destruction.

If you don't believe that then just look at how effective any of the three strikes rules have been; people on their second strike won't stop for anyone because they KNOW it's jail time. Hence the amount of police chases.

Sadly, that is what it takes in America for us to learn our mistakes:
We implement laws that cripple our rights and don't even bat an eyelash until the day comes when we need those rights back but don't have them.

I could never, no matter what, allow this to happen to me.

I understand the bond between man and car.
I understand why they'd run to protect it.

Evander

Everyone has got a different definition of liberty. It is up to the majority to decide what the terms of the Social Contract will be.

I'm making my voice known, if the majority feels the same way I do, our point of view would then set the terms for the Social Contract and vice versa.

If one doesn't like it, its their right to bitch about it and try and change it.

danio3834

Spooger

Id rather the government not force me or anyone else to do what they feel is best.

I don't even smoke, and anti smoking laws piss me off.

Hey, i know we'll never go back to cat-less cars, but you still gotta love that smell... ;)

danio3834

skaz

You think freedom means "my skull not being bounced off of a windshield in a low-speed accident"? What the fuck is wrong with you? Like people are just leaving babies on dashboards or that's how it once was? Come the fuck on - that's ludicrous. People care for the safety of children, that's just how it goes.

You honestly think freedom is "Vehicles not emitting carcinogenic soot that burns our eyes, settles onto our rooftops and sidewalks," really? Been to Mexico, at least right on the border? There's lots of problems there but not a single one of them is cars shooting soot out into the air and choking everyone, despite the fact that every car you see is 25+ years old and beaten to shit.

"Not being blown up by fundamentalist nutjobs." You really think Danio mentioned that that was okay? Or are you just using hyperbolic scare tactics (just like neocons) to scare us into your perfectly free nanny society?

Not to be a dick, but your arguments are loaded with bullshit.

skaz

powerglide

Not getting emphasima, athsma, stinking or losing my voice in a restaurant due to someone's second-hand smoke.

As an infant, my skull not being bounced off of a windshield in a low-speed accident because of lazy parents unwilling to strap their children into car seats.

Vehicles not emitting carcinogenic soot that burns our eyes, settles onto our rooftops and sidewalks.

Not being blown-up by fundamentalist nutjobs.

If you're in favor of any of the above things, which evidently you are, you've got a dis-jointed idea of what "liberty" is. Familiarize yourself with the term "Social Contract."

adidascrosscountry

I don't street race, nor anything near it, but I can see that the definition is very open to interpretation. When you take a vague term like that, allow the police leeway to do the interpreting at the scene, and mix in a divided community and intolerant, brutal police force, I can see the opportunity for a lot of abuse.

"Street Racing" is not a black-and-white thing. These guys didn't have signs on their car (Bullrun anyone?) advertising that they were racing, did they? They didn't sign a document saying "I was street racing." They were caught in a traffic infraction, the cops decided it was street racing, and the judge decided they could crush their car.

My opinion is: If they had been white, engaged in the same activity, the outcome would have been different.

dculberson

I'm torn. Questionable ethics on the side of the courts/cops vs making ricers cry. Gnaaaaa.. Can. not. choose!

priznat

Sure, if youre engaging in an illegal activity and you get caught, you pay the consequences.

However what i posted above, what the attorney general of Canada said, that is scary. What he has planned is much, much worse.

danio3834

adidascrosscountry

Ahh yes, i remember what freedom used to be like.

Freedom smelled like cigarette smoke in a restaurant, and riding as a 2 year old in the front seat with no child seat. Or the smell of an exhaust with no catalytic converters.

Not ot mention all the other BS going on at airport security passports etc.

While some ppl are adamantly against those things listed above, i love them, because to me, it reminds me of liberty.

danio3834

But it's clearly not really about stolen parts, its about hitting street racers where it hurts. I don't shed any tears for these guys whining after they've been caught being naughty. He willingly put himself in the forefront of an enforcement issue the local cops are taking very seriously, so he should expect them to play rough.

If they pulled this guy over for a bad taillight or expired tabs, then sent him to the crusher, I'd have a little more sympathy.

@dculberson: They're not going to even look at the stolen tranny in your car, because you aren't going to impounded for street racing, are you?

lascauxcaveman

jword2001

It's like how they seize "drug" money by bringing a case against the money instead of the person who had the money, and since money doesn't have the right to due process, they can do whatever they want with it.

This used to be the land of the free. Remember that?

knute

HDC

jword2001

Believe me I love cars as much as the next guy but I have a few things to say about what I think is acceptable use of a vehicle on public roads. I think those that street race don't respect there cars and those that love there cars. If you really loved your car and had respect for it you would take it too the track to race it. And if you can afford to take any Honda or Integra to high power levels than I'm sure you can afford to pay to race it at an organized event.

TheAstronot

Comrade Teargaskov

This stuff pisses me off so bad. What if I bought a transmission from a legit seeming seller on eBay, installed it in my $30,000 car, and it turned out to be stolen? Then it would still be okay to crush my car?

Sadly, I think mine wouldn't be crushed: because I could afford a good lawyer. These guys probably can't, and the cops and judge know that. Jerks.

I don't like "street racing" but chances are these guys were guilty of speeding while a minority driving a souped-up car.

dculberson

danio3834

Yes youre right. Some buds who are also gearheads were discussing the very idea. Im not sure what the attorney general drives, but im sure its some luxury car with 300+hp. Is he going to start crushing Ferraris and AMG Benzes?

Probably not. Basically what he is saying is "We are going to profile you. If you fit the profile of Paul Walker in the Fast and the Furious, we will unlawfully take your car, crush it and laugh at you when you cry."

danio3834

Gavin082

@danio3834: Right. ANY car can be turned into a "weapon". I did my fair share of stupid stuff and got my first speeding tickets in my first car, a beat bone stock '88 Pontiac Grand Am with the old "Iron Duke" pushrod 4 cylinder.

evoCS is possibly NSFW

It involved a V6 Mustang and another unidentified car who were hooning around like idiots in afternoon rush hour traffic. The only reason anyone is likening the incided to street racing is cause they were 2 young guys.

danio3834

Likening speed shops that make street racers to illegal drug labs and bomb factories, Attorney General Michael Bryant is warning the cars could be seized before they even hit the roads.
Bryant threw down the gauntlet at street racers today in the wake of Monday's Highway 400 accident, allegedly caused by racing, in which truck driver David Virgoe was killed.
"Somebody who's putting together a … car for street racing might as well be putting together an illegal narcotic or putting together an explosive," the attorney general told reporters.
"What I would say to anybody who is engaging in the illegal act of street racing is, we don't need to wait until that car hits the road fully loaded," said Bryant.
The attorney general pointed out that Ottawa and Queen's Park have worked together to tighten up laws designed to curb street racing.
"We can seize that car if we have information from police and, just on the balance of probabilities, if we can establish that that car is being used for the unlawful purpose of street racing, we will seize it and you will never see it again," he said.
"We will crush your car. We will crush the parts. You will never see it again."
While Bryant declined to discuss details of Virgoe's death or the case of three men charged in connection with it, he noted that Ontario prosecutors are making use of new provisions in the Criminal Code for street-racing offences.

danio3834

Praise God that the only non-street legal automobile that I have put on the road as a licensed motor vehicle was a Jeep Wrangler and not a street racer.

Of course the local cops didn't even notice the mods as being something other than street legal because I kept the tires tucked under the fender flares.

cgarison

I agree with Jim K; part the cars out, sell them at an auction, give them to people who need a car, anything but what they did. I'm not a big fan of the fart can but I could swallow my pride for a 30 mpg beater.

pres_has something cool after his name too.

cgarison

He also threatens that if your car is found to be illegal in construction, they will crush it.

This stuff makes me sick.

danio3834

I think San Bernadino and Riverside counties owe the owners of those cars the

cgarison

ShaneO83

Adidac425

Damn, my fake ID was in there!

rg

The Hoang guy even claims that he bought the tranny, er, transmission from his dad's shop.

IppoJ

Just kidding. I hate the fact that these were crushed. Should have been parted to help pay restitution to the victims

Jim K

B

I hate seeing the Constitution stepped on this way, yet... there's six ricers off the streets.... but, man, that was a Supra on top of the pile!

Man, if they'd just throw in a little due-process, I think we've got us a deal! Of course, this totally erodes any remaining respect these kids had for authority, law and morality, so it'll probably lead them to doing more, worse stuff.

Just curious, if you put a giant plastic bag around those and drizzle them with caramel, could you sell 'em as rice cakes?

FЯeeMan is slowly cЯawling out of the new commenting system