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Detroit, 12:57 PM
Fri Dec 11
28 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of Mobius Mobius
    08/19/09

    In reply to Is There A Future For American Motoring?
    This article has the most insightful, passionate, elaborate, articulate, charismatic, soul-stirring commenting anywhere on the internet.
     Reply
    Mobius was starred Mobius was unstarred
    Image of GV_Goat GV_Goat
    08/19/09

    In reply to Is There A Future For American Motoring?
    Exactly. American car culture will evolve, not die. This is evidenced by the many non-American, economically disadvantaged countries around the world that still manage to turn limited resources into their own unique form of automotive idolatry.

    I mean, if a civic can run a 7 sec quarter, anything's possible. Right? Right.
     Reply
    Mobius says welcome back! promoted this comment GV_Goat was starred GV_Goat was unstarred
    Image of Mobius Mobius
    08/19/09

    @GV_Goat: And a van can drift like your AE86s, anything's possible!
     Reply
    Mobius was starred Mobius was unstarred
    Image of ThreeLitre ThreeLitre
    08/19/09

    In reply to Is There A Future For American Motoring?
    Bottom line about car culture is this: people are ingenious. They will find a way.

    Tuning a drivetrain will require certainly more knowledge of electric components than it does today, but car CULTURE doesn't change just because the cars do.

    People love speed, shiny things, feeling a sense of accomplishment, making things their own, and sharing it with others. So unless cars become made entirely of wood, a blanket speed limit of 25 is laid down across the country, and people aren't allowed to associate in groups of more than 3 people (bring on the Soviet-America jokes), the car culture isn't going anywhere bad. Just different.
     Reply
    ThreeLitre was starred ThreeLitre was unstarred
    Image of GasGuzzler GasGuzzler
    08/19/09

    In reply to Is There A Future For American Motoring?
    I very much doubt the spirit of motoring will die, at least anytime soon. I know I'll be collecting, modifying, and wrenching until the day I die or the day my back no longer allows me to perform such tasks. Being in my early 20s, that day is a long way off.

    However, I do believe that the "spirit" will evolve. For my age, I suppose I'm one of the more "old school" car guys, I'll take something older, modify it, drive it around with crummy looking paint knowing it runs 12s and pollutes to high heaven and be damn proud that my socket wrench has touched nearly every bolt and fastener on it. I am the minority today. I have friends to lazy to change their own oil, fuel filter, air filter, or anything else. I practially run a shop out of my garage performing menial maintenance tasks for a few of my buddies and I stop and ask, "can you really not handle rotating your tires yourself?"

    With all the greenwashings and bogus politics today, many near classics are seeing the crusher. The car forum I frequent has already seen a number of threads with regard to "clunkering" what for many, would be a perfectly good performance vehicle to modify. This is our perfect storm - joblessness, inflation, debt - all aligning to make the cost of entry prohibitive, and coupled with the social climate, the act of modifying - a sin. However, I retain the hope and belief that we will press on, sinning as it may be. The only reprieve from our "sins" coming when the we shut down for a fill up, or tear it down for that next modification.

    Live on my brethren, live in.
     Reply
    Mobius mourns his fallen comrades promoted this comment GasGuzzler was starred GasGuzzler was unstarred
    Image of DLBlast DLBlast
    08/19/09

    In reply to Is There A Future For American Motoring?
    I'm 17 and my friends and I are the weird ones who change our own oil.

    Mavericks.

    /facepalm
     Reply
    jbownsabmw- Koopas Beware promoted this comment DLBlast was starred DLBlast was unstarred
    Image of jbownsabmw- Koopas Beware jbownsabmw- Koopas Beware
    08/19/09

    @DLBlast: I consider myself a car guy, and I've only changed my own oil once. We have family friends who owned a shop, and he only charged me $4 over what it cost me to do it myself, and that $4 was worth the savings in hassle.

    I think the idea here is that America is all about individualism, and that Americans will always feel a connection to their cars, using them as an instrument to express their individuality.

    I do applaud you for changing your own oil, but it is possible to see that as a means to save money, not as an expression of your love for cars.
     Reply
    jbownsabmw- Koopas Beware was starred jbownsabmw- Koopas Beware was unstarred
    Image of Tanshanomi Tanshanomi
    08/19/09

    In reply to Is There A Future For American Motoring?
    "One must be of one's time" - Honoré Daumier

    Are hobbyist cars of the future going to look like a fastback mustang with chrome Cragar SS's? Nope. The thing is, that's okay. Each generation gets to define itself for itself. The next generation doesn't care what we think.

    In the '20s, guys were tweaking Model Ts into "speedsters." Right now, older-middle-age guys with potbellies who grew up listening to "Pet Sounds" think there's nothing better than muscle cars. In 25 years, their grandkids may be cobbling up battery packs and soldering homebrew circuit control boards to hotrod old jalopy Priuses.

    Does that sound like as much fun to us old guys? Of course not. But you can stick it, old man. They won't be building them for you, anyway.
     Reply
    Tanshanomi was starred Tanshanomi was unstarred
    Image of GV_Goat GV_Goat
    08/19/09

    @Tanshanomi: Well said.

    (But the muscle cars are better, right?)
     Reply
    Tanshanomi promoted this comment GV_Goat was starred GV_Goat was unstarred
    Image of WilliamG. WilliamG.
    08/19/09

    In reply to Is There A Future For American Motoring?
    American motoring will survive the way it was birthed, not as a scene with representative trade shows and corporate interests trying to make a lifestyle out of it, but more organically, at a grassroots level. Because someone, somewhere, will always look at their car and think "what if", and they'll do something to make it faster/louder/more comfortable/flashier and someone else will see it and appreciate it and then take that same idea and push it to the next level. It doesn't matter if it's a Model A or a shoebox Chevy or a Civic hatchback or a Lotus with an electric motor shoved under the rear hatch. Yes, Virginia, there is a spirit called car and it lives in many of us. Even many who don't visit this site.
     Reply
    Uncle Bo wants the banned back together promoted this comment WilliamG. was starred WilliamG. was unstarred
    Image of Tanshanomi Tanshanomi
    08/19/09

    @WilliamG.: Heart click. And I don't give them out often.
     Reply
    Tanshanomi was starred Tanshanomi was unstarred
    Image of WilliamG. WilliamG.
    08/19/09

    @Tanshanomi: Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
     Reply
    WilliamG. was starred WilliamG. was unstarred
    Image of Jeb_Hoge Jeb_Hoge
    08/19/09

    In reply to Is There A Future For American Motoring?
    Car culture in the US will never die. Hell, a guy rolled up to our neighborhood pool in a 1931 Chevrolet coupe last night. I know a guy in town rebuilding a 1968 (I think...maybe '67) Mustang fastback. A kid down the street has a moderately tricked out '98 Subie Legacy, and further down the street, someone's hiding an old SHO. As long as we remember that Car Culture isn't about any one class, category, or mindset of cars, then it'll live forever.
     Reply
    Jeb_Hoge was starred Jeb_Hoge was unstarred
    Image of Franzouse Franzouse
    08/19/09

    In reply to Is There A Future For American Motoring?
    What made American motoring so awesome were: its mass appeal, the freedom it gave people to innovate, go retro or just go crazy, and the fact that any average joe could participate.
    That era might be going away for cars, but I think the distinctly american traits of that phenomenon: individuality, ingenuity and passion, aren't going anywhere.
     Reply
    Franzouse was starred Franzouse was unstarred
    Image of Novaload Novaload
    08/19/09

    @Franzouse: Agree. But there is a future for American motoring because cars are not just cars. They are not just "things" -- not the beloved ones, anyway.
     Reply
    Novaload was starred Novaload was unstarred
    Image of Franzouse Franzouse
    08/19/09

    @Novaload Wants the Jez 9 Back: yes, anyone who thinks cars are just things will likely not be my friend.
     Reply
    Franzouse was starred Franzouse was unstarred
    Image of wojo wojo
    08/18/09

    In reply to Is There A Future For American Motoring?
    I doubt very much that that the spirit of motoring is dying, consider the hotrods made from Model T's and Model A's, and the chop top cars from the forties; most were fairly average cars when stock, but when modified became something truly amazing. this can and probably will happen in the future in a new, unique way- consider a chopped and lowered Ford Fusion- all it takes is a little imagination and perspiration.

    As for the future of motoring in general, the primary question is how willing we are as a nation to trade freedom and excitement for safety and responsibility. All we can hope for is that we've learned from our mistakes and can avoid repeating them. Let the pessimists complain and the old timers reminisce; the rest of us will look onward to the future and whatever it has in store.

    I don't believe that anything could quite replace the joy and liberation of the open road, and I hope nothing ever does.
     Reply
    Ray Wert approved this comment wojo was starred wojo was unstarred
    Image of evoCS-Hench-Minion to the stars evoCS-Hench-Minion to the stars
    08/19/09

    @wojo90: You have a nice comment there. I hope my reply here promotes it. I think a chopped and hotrodded Fusion could be rad.
     Reply
    evoCS-Hench-Minion to the stars promoted this comment evoCS-Hench-Minion to the stars was starred evoCS-Hench-Minion to the stars was unstarred
    Image of wojo wojo
    08/19/09

    @evoCS-Hench-Minion to the stars: Thank you! My friend has one and I'm trying to get him to do something cool with it.
     Reply
    wojo was starred wojo was unstarred
    Image of Mobius Mobius
    08/18/09

    In reply to Badvertising Of The Woodward Dream Cruise
    Dodges and Peeps.

    Match made in heaven.

    /apologies to Dodge owners
     Reply
    Mobius was starred Mobius was unstarred
    Image of Mobius Mobius
    08/18/09

    In reply to Badvertising Of The Woodward Dream Cruise
    Why does the anti-abortion van look so much like the "Free Candy Inside" van?
     Reply
    Mobius was starred Mobius was unstarred
    Image of Mobius Mobius
    08/18/09

    In reply to Is There A Future For American Motoring?
    When I was still tiny, I was enchanted and excited by the pictures of (IIRC) a Testarossa on my wall, and spent hours upon hours with my little toy cars (hitting them into each other, hehe). Then, in primary school, I loved IT class, for both an innate and unexplained enjoyment of technology and also the big red F50 on every desktop.

    Maybe it's something set deep into most male and some female psyches that madly enamours us with those in the world that are meticulous engineered, precision crafted, and astonishingly physics defying. So much so, and so mysteriously so, the science of making cars (and technology) becomes an art. An art to be savoured, to be gawped at, to be showed off to admiration and adulation.

    An art to be loved. I love cars. They are so much more than boxes on wheels that I use to get from A-to-B. They are alive, they are among us, they complete us.
     Reply
    Mobius was starred Mobius was unstarred
    Image of that ain't the way to have fun, son that ain't the way to have fun, son
    08/18/09

    In reply to Is There A Future For American Motoring?
    This is 1973, part 2, that's all.

    Just like how grunge 'music' totally fubar'd radio, it'll go away, eventually, much like malaise bumpers and 120 HP 400 C.I.D. V-8 engines did.

    If you ever think cars are gone, go listen to Red Barchetta by Rush.

    Personally, I'd like to save a very low-mile, loaded (i.e. sunroof but no fake convertible crapola) 1993-1996 LT-1 powered Fleetwood. If gasoline goes away, I'll just have to Mad Max it for juice, that's all.
     Reply
    that ain't the way to have fun, son was starred that ain't the way to have fun, son was unstarred
    Image of Mad_Science Mad_Science
    08/18/09

    In reply to Is There A Future For American Motoring?
    Classic Cars are like Classic Rock.

    The inertia of the definition of "Classic" meaning the 60s and early 70s is only just starting to corrode.

    But we see it now; we see it here.

    We are the gearheads of the present and future, just as the nostalgites were the gearheads of the past.

    What do we drive? What do we lust after? We hang onto our aging GTIs, Volvo Bricks, Impala SSs, and our XJ Cherokees. We unwisely pick up Jaguar XJRs, lured by the siren song of a stonking V8.

    The motoring public forgets how much chaff was discarded to yield the GT390s, 440 Challengers and Chevelle SSs that have survived.

    Memories of 1-barrel six cylinders, 2-speed autos and 14x5.5" bias plies fade while an armada of Camries (or Armadas, for that matter) stares us in the face every day.

    Rest assured, 40 years from now the Camries will be forgotten, but the Supras, the EVOs and the CTS-Vs will be causing gearheads to avert their gaze long enough to walk into a post just the same.

    And maybe then, after walking through parking lots of electric self-driving commuter-bubbles will we have this discussion again.
     Reply
    Mad_Science was starred Mad_Science was unstarred
    Image of ferric oxide ferric oxide
    08/19/09

    @Mad_Science: I think the biggest problem with something like a Supra or an EVO as a 'classic' will be parts.

    You don't need too much to keep yesterday's GT's going. They're very simple animals until you get into numbers correct restorations. Here's a holley carb, heres a junkyard full of small block V8's, here's a tub of bondo.

    In 30 years when you need one of 12 electronic control units in that Supra replaced, you are going to need a freaking time machine.
     Reply
    Mad_Science promoted this comment ferric oxide was starred ferric oxide was unstarred
    Image of Mad_Science Mad_Science
    08/19/09

    @ferric oxide: Ah, funny you should say that.

    I have an easier time getting parts for my modern cars than I do for my '67 Ford Country Sedan.

    I had to read a book on carburetors to figure out how that mechanical clusterfnck on top of the engine actually works. EFI has long made perfect sense to me.

    Circuit boards are cheap and easy to replace. Carburetor parts require precision casting and machining: increasingly expensive processes compared to electronics.

    To be honest, I'm willing to bet electronic engine controllers will be easier to come by than carb parts 30 years from now.
     Reply
    Mad_Science was starred Mad_Science was unstarred
    Image of evoCS-Hench-Minion to the stars evoCS-Hench-Minion to the stars
    08/19/09

    @Mad_Science: I was about to chime in on this topic in an eerily similar fashion. Thank goodness for page refresh.
    At the very least, folks like AEM, Hondata, MoTec, and the like will be able to supply engine ECU's for a lot of our beloved rides. Body controllers are another thing, but I'm sure someone out there will fill the need.
    Hmmm, now that I think about it...
     Reply
    evoCS-Hench-Minion to the stars was starred evoCS-Hench-Minion to the stars was unstarred
    Image of ferric oxide ferric oxide
    08/19/09

    @evoCS-Hench-Minion to the stars: Perhaps the control unit was a poor example then. And you're right, there are plenty of aftermarket ECUs for both of those cars. The fact remains that there are lots of custom parts in there.

    You might be hard pressed to find jets for your holley 750 in 30 years, but you really won't need to, you just need to find something equivalent. I can't buy a new stromberg carb for my 45 year old dodge, but I can get an edelbrock.

    At any rate I certainly hope you're right because I'm not giving up my twin turbo without a fight.
     Reply
    evoCS-Hench-Minion to the stars promoted this comment ferric oxide was starred ferric oxide was unstarred
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