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DC Metro Red Line Train Crash Leaves Nine Dead, 75 Injured
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Yellin' 'Bout Oil in WDC

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MushyHeirloom
06/23/09

In reply to DC Metro Red Line Train Crash Leaves Nine Dead, 75 Injured
The question is, is the lower fatality rate worth more than the ability to attempt to avoid an accident?

Tough question.
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Novaload
06/23/09

In reply to DC Metro Red Line Train Crash Leaves Nine Dead, 75 Injured
Supposedly a "fail safe" system that had failed before, but the drivers then noticed they were running up on another train and manually braking--even though the system said "all clear."

Last I heard, they did not know if the brakes failed, but there was no indication the driver used them.
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413wedge
06/23/09

In reply to DC Metro Red Line Train Crash Leaves Nine Dead, 75 Injured
Low-bid design rail cars with NO apparent margin of safety.
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Novaload
06/23/09

@413wedge: They're French!
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sos10
06/23/09

In reply to DC Metro Red Line Train Crash Leaves Nine Dead, 75 Injured
As always, the most dangerous carriages are the first and last one. Why don't they make trains without them?
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Novaload
06/23/09

@sos10: Brilliant! I support that idea 100%! No, wait! Make that 200%!
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Elhigh
06/23/09

@sos10: Or you can cut the risk in half and make the last car of the front train the first car of the following train.

To eliminate first and last cars entirely, we're going to need a lot more cars, and a track layout that's set up as a loop.

I like this idea.
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ursa
06/23/09

In reply to DC Metro Red Line Train Crash Leaves Nine Dead, 75 Injured
This will likely end up like the Toronto subway crash years back. The back up system will have failed for some small reason (wear and tear), the operator will have been distracted and folks are killed.

I took transit every day for a decade - I always felt safer on the GO instead of in a car. Too many idiots on the roads.

These trains looks like San Francisco BART units - who makes them? and how fast do they go?
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Captain Liverspots
06/23/09

@ursa:

They've got several different series of cars, made by 2 or 3 different companies. The out-of-control car was apparently one of the original series of trains from when the system opened in '76, made by Rohr, I think. I know they've been rehabbed several times and were supposed to be phased out soon. The train that got hit was something newer.
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mechimike
06/23/09

@Kapitän Lebertransplantation: You are correct, the hit and split train was a Rohr car, made in the mid-late 70's. The car that got hit was (I heard) a 5000 series CAF car, built in the 1990's.
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Elhigh
06/23/09

@ursa: As I recall, the first cars when the Metro opened back in the late 70s were French. Don't remember who made them exactly - I was ten.

Top speed is a guess, but seeing how the Orange line heading west to Vienna can pace and even pass traffic on I-66, I'd say it's somewhere north of 70mph. This crash notwithstanding, getting beyond 40mph in rush hour traffic is worth mass transit's other hassles.
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Dr. H. F. Danger
06/23/09

In reply to DC Metro Red Line Train Crash Leaves Nine Dead, 75 Injured
I have the feeling that this was because the train operator was texting or using the phone. At first I thought this was another Boston train wreck, which would have been number three(four maybe) wreck due to texting.
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engineerd
06/23/09

In reply to DC Metro Red Line Train Crash Leaves Nine Dead, 75 Injured
My condolences to the families of those who were killed, and hopes and prayers for those who were injured that they may have a speedy recovery.

Betting on who will be the first to propose ridiculous legislation on train safety is open. Current odds:

Dodd: Even

Frank: 1-3

McCain: 1-13

Baucus: 1-4

Feingold: Even

Boxer: Even
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Flathead Smith
06/23/09

@engineerd hates hydrogen leaks:You forgot about Senator Chucky Schumer. I'm sure he's knocking folks down right now to get in front of a camera, any camera. He's always wanting to legislate something out of existence.
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engineerd
06/23/09

@Flathead Smith: Good call. Others to consider: Jim Bunning, Tom Coburn, Dick Durbin, Carl Levin, and Harry Reid. That's just on the Senate side. You have 435 demagogues frothing at the mouth on the other side.
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maximum-sienna
06/23/09

@engineerd hates hydrogen leaks: Way to jump on my bandwagon.
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engineerd
06/23/09

@maximum-sienna: Hahahaha...I hadn't read yours when I wrote this. Great minds think alike!
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B1663R
06/23/09

In reply to DC Metro Red Line Train Crash Leaves Nine Dead, 75 Injured
I'm trying to figure out how that could have been prevented. off the top of my head, the construction of the train coaches could be beefed up. but maybe that fancy active sonar that is in some of the newer cars would have helped.

i hope the investigation provides some positive insight as to how to make the rails safer for the populous.

till then, I'm still gonna drive.
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pauljones
06/23/09

@B1663R: There is no sonar in cars. Radar? Yes. Sonar? No.
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monsterajr
06/23/09

@B1663R: I'm not sure if the Metro system uses stop arms at all signal locations like NYCT does, but Metro does/can work in an automated mode without motorman interface. Reports are saying that they are looking into whether it was in that mode or "manual" ie: motorman.
I take the LIRR and Subway everyday and generally feel and know I'm safer there, than on the area roads.
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mechimike
06/23/09

@B1663R: I used to work on these cars. The cars that crashed into the other set were older cars, I believe some of the original cars WMATA purchased over 30 years ago. The construction of those cars was such that the floors separate from the body on severe impace. Its a design flaw, and one that's since been corrected.

Also, I've personally been in trains going 60 mph in manual mode. These trains, however, were in auto mode when they crashed, which means there was a failure of the trackside monitoring devices coupled with an operator who was either distracted or impaired in such a way so as to prevent her from hitting the emergency brake.
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Jo Schmo
06/23/09

@pauljones: Give me one ping. One ping only.
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pauljones
06/23/09

@Jo $chmo:

According to repeated statements from Congress, President Barack Obama, Supreme Court Justice scalia, the CEO of Metro, and some guy named Joe, nothing of what you are about to see...ever happened

"Conn, sonar! I'm picking up another train! Could be a passenger train out of downtown!"

"Where is he, Jonesy?"

"In our baffles, sir! Coming up fast!"

"Very well, Jonesy."

"Conn, sonar! Target is going Crazy Ivan!"

"Which way, Jonesy?"

"Which way do you think, jackass!"

"XO, launch countermeasures!"

"Aye sir, dead bums and hookers away!"

"Conn, sonar! The dead bums aren't working, sir! The target hasn't slowed enough! I think he's got us, sir!"

"DAMMIT! RIG TRAIN FOR IMPACT!"

24 hours later, in the Metro control room

"Where is the wreck?"

"Someplace deep in the underground, sir."

"All this way to hide a train in a tunnel...."

"Welcome to the New World, sir."
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B1663R
06/23/09

@pauljones: ha, ha, ha. so i messed up...

you know, pobody is nerfect ok?

big meanies, i'm taking my ball and going home...
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Leeeeena the Jalopchick
06/23/09

@monsterajr: What about when the LIRR kept derailing in December? That wasn't exactly confidence-inspiring for me.
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PetroSapien
06/23/09

In reply to DC Metro Red Line Train Crash Leaves Nine Dead, 75 Injured
First, let me express my condolences for those who's lives were impacted by this either directly, or their families.
However, in looking over the photos, I also realized that we, too often, overlook the efforts of the men and women who serve as EMTs or in Fire/Rescue. To them, I wish to send my utmost respect, and sincerest thanks.
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Elhigh
06/23/09

@PetroSapien: No capes, just funny hats, thick heavy coats, and axes.
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Rock517
06/23/09

In reply to DC Metro Red Line Train Crash Leaves Nine Dead, 75 Injured
Trainopnik. Yet another reason I'll never use public mass transit.
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Bertone77
06/23/09

@Rock517: You are far more likely to get in a car accident or get struck by lightning walking down the street than to be involved in a train wreck. I wish they had more mass transit to save me from all the jack-offs that drive on my highways.
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Rock517
06/23/09

@OMG! Bertone-77!: I'd rather take my chances behind the wheel of my car, with a seatbelt, air bags, etc., than ride on a pissy smelling train or bus. Luckily, I don't even think we have mass transit trains in MI, aside from the "People Mover" in Detroit. But who wants to go to Detroit?
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spuy767
06/23/09

@Rock517: In Atlanta, everywhere there's a Marta station, a slum pops up around it. That's why I steer clear of mass transit save for when it is REALLY convenient, i.e. MARTA runs right into KATL.
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Flathead Smith
06/23/09

@spuy767:What does MARTA really stand for?
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mechimike
06/23/09

@spuy767: MARTA has a rather crude, unofficial acronym expansion that concerns moving people of a certain ethnic group rapidly through Atlanta. Its also fairly accurate.
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Flathead Smith
06/23/09

@OMG! Bertone-77!: Well I've been riding in my car all my life and hadn't got killed yet.
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Unregular
06/23/09

@spuy767: in Boston, wherever there's a T station the area around it gets completely gentrified and the slum gets pushed further out.

@Rock517: the "another" reason was how safe, comparatively, it is?

you seem to contantly explain your comments with follow-up comments... you notice that?
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Bertone77
06/23/09

@Flathead Smith: Well by that measure everybody on this blog must be the best and most safest drivers in the world because we are all alive to type and comment on Jalopnik!
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pauljones
06/23/09

@OMG! Bertone-77!: Actually, I'm a tormented, disembodied soul residing in the Gawker servers.
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Charles_Barrett - Now with Variable-Valve Timing
06/23/09

@pauljones:

"Actually, I'm a tormented, disembodied soul residing in the Gawker servers."

The ghost of Nibbles past...
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Elhigh
06/23/09

@Rock517: "Pissy smelling?" Oh, my goodness. Now you've gone and done it.

My friend, the DC Metro is far and away one of the very nicest subways I've ever been on. It's not Boston's T, it's nothing like the NY subway, and it hits levels of quality and cleanliness the El can only aspire to.

I'll tell you, the DC Metrorail is a clean, pleasant place to spend time. There's no vandalism, next to no graffiti. I heard a rumor and years of riding the Metro over the last 30 years (when the hell did I get old?) so far seems to bear it out: if the vandalism can't be repaired, if the graffiti can't be cleaned off, the part gets replaced.

I took my kids for a ride on the T in Boston a few years ago. My younger son, just eight years old at the time, looked around at the subway cars and said, "It ain't no Metro."

I chided him for his bad grammar, then congratulated him for his perception.
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Elhigh
06/23/09

@Unregular: In DC the nicest neighborhoods are to be found around the Metro stops. A Metro stop within walking distance is worth another $10,000 on a house price, easy.
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e30m3
06/23/09

@Flathead Smith: Moving Africans Rapidly Through Atlanta (not trying to sound like a racist), but seriously it means Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority. and it sucks unless you want to go down to the Ga dome or back to Tech other than that the first description is accurate.
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Leeeeena the Jalopchick
06/23/09

@e30m3: I would call them MARTArds and piss everyone off equally.
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EndlessMike
06/23/09

In reply to DC Metro Red Line Train Crash Leaves Nine Dead, 75 Injured
As someone who rides the Metro every day, this is a really scary thing, but being only the fourth incident in 25 years alleviates that a bit, at least.
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My X-type is too a real Jaguar
06/23/09

@EndlessMike: The sad reality is, this week will be the safest week ever to ride the metro.
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Dhillaz 2.0
06/23/09

@My X-type is too a real Jaguar: Sorry, I don't understand your logic...
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pauljones
06/23/09

@Dhillaz drives a Chevrolet Taco: It's quite simple, really.

After having just suffered from a large accident that caused the death of nine people and serious bodily harm to seventy-five others, and then being humiliated not only on national television, but also on the internet, they are going to find the problem, find it fast, and fix it fast. They are spooked right now, and they will be putting a lot of extra effort into making sure that that doesn't happen again.
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My X-type is too a real Jaguar
06/23/09

In reply to DC Metro Red Line Train Crash Leaves Nine Dead, 75 Injured
From the news I heard investigators are looking at computer error. Automakers, all transportation builders and drivers/engineers/pilots need to take notice. A computer is not a replacement for good judgment.
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B1663R
06/23/09

@My X-type is too a real Jaguar: i think that they may find that if the human operator didn't touch or over ride the controls then this would not have happened.

a computer is only as good as the guy who programmed it.
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sos10
06/23/09

@My X-type is too a real Jaguar: Recently, texting has been proven to be a replacement.
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HenriPro
06/23/09

In reply to DC Metro Red Line Train Crash Leaves Nine Dead, 75 Injured
What a horrible way to start the morning. Just imagining it;

Waking up early, glancing up at the clock, wanting to stay in bed but its a Tuesday. Gets up and grab on some breakfast and rush to the train to get to the offices before 5:30. there are roumers going around the office that theres going to be yet another around of layoffs, so have to get there early finally get on the train think it will be a chance to get some work done. then BAAAMMMMMM!!!

out of nowhere its all over.
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snep
06/23/09

@HenriPro: Teh crash actually happened around 5pm
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B1663R
06/23/09

@snep: give the guy a break, he works the night shift...
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Scandinavian Flick
06/23/09

@snep: That's, in a way, even worse. The last thing those 9 people ever did... was work...

...on a Monday...
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Dhillaz 2.0
06/23/09

In reply to DC Metro Red Line Train Crash Leaves Nine Dead, 75 Injured
My condolences to the families of those involved.

I think the fact this makes news is a testament to how safe travelling by rail is: almost 9 people are killed every day on Britain's roads.
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spuy767
06/23/09

@Dhillaz drives a Chevrolet Taco: Rail is safe, so are cars. It's people that are the problem. At any rate, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if someone was playing with her cell phone.
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mechimike
06/23/09

@spuy767: We'll never know, the operator was dead.
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