Something definitely fishy here. I might have to actually read the article at some point. But, it just doesn't add up that a governmental body in the US would choose to cut expenses rather than increase taxes/fees.
NYS has mandatory yearly inspections. But, at least when I lived there, if you *knew* a mechanic, for an extra handfull of dollars they'd overlook that nonfunctioning horn or that "possibly" welded-up subframe. Like any government program you care to name, it was as corrupt as the day was long, and about as ineffectual. Living in SC now, and I really don't see any more crap on the roads down here than we had up north. Possibly even less, without snow and the accompanying road salt and rust.
@mechimike: I've lived in NY and DC and I don't think there's a comparison - DC's system was a nightmare, and you had to go to a city-run inspection station, not just any old mechanic to get basic inspection. Imagine the worst, busiest DMV that you have ever visited, and then imagine that you had to drive up to it and remain in your car until you got to see anyone. Then imagine that if you failed for some stupid little bureaucratic reason, you got a ticket slapped on your car saying that it wasn't fit to be on the roads and the only thing you could do was pull it across the street to one of the overpriced auto repair shops that just happened to be there. That was DC's system, and it was the worst I'd ever seen. Good riddance!
@Scandinavian Flick: The worst stuff on the road here is registered in Mexico. California doesn't need safety inspections because they punish the poor through arbitrary smog inspections instead.
@CJinSD: What I feel would be better here is to ditch the visual smog crap and add on safety inspections instead. Who gives a flying fuck if your cat's serial number matches what is required if it is pooping roses? I got a car to pass the sniffer with flying colors with a gutted cat. Visual has nothing to do with actual emissions. Like you said, it just punishes the poor, and requires them to put more money into superfluous repairs that don't affect what comes out of the tailpipe. Thus, they cannot afford to fix their metal on metal brakes, or their bald tires...
/rant
Sorry, I have a serious beef with CA smog laws... I could go on and on, but I am sure you know the deal...
@Scandinavian Flick: Could you imagine how many fart can emblazoned, riding on chopped springs crapbuckets would get pulled off the road in CA if we had them!
@Scandinavian Flick: New York's safety inspection system isn't overly rigorous, but covers stuff like brakes, ball joints, tie rods, lights, wipers, etc. It's a hassle, but it probably keeps a lot of really scary vehicles off the road.
...on the other hand, going into my last inspection, I went to a chain place that rhymes with "Schmonro", because they were open on a Saturday. I knew I was going to need brakes, and they did indeed barely pass, but they tried to sell me $350 pads (yes, just pads, and convinced me that calipers are $700 and would need to be replaced if I let my brakes go longer; I wasn't even down to the wear indicators) for my xB with stock brakes. I went home, priced some parts, and got pads and rotors for about $100, and did it myself the next week, and it only took an hour of my own time.
In the linked USA Today article, a woman from downstate NY claims that a shop took her sticker and told her that her car failed, so they'd have to repair it so they can leave. That's illegal-- if you fail inspection, you're charged $11, and are free to leave to get repairs done when- and where ever you want. In theory, you're required to get re-inspected within the month on your sticker, but you're in little danger of being ticketed unless you're a year or more overdue (they're color-coded), or really pissed off a cop who pulled you over for something else decided to ding you for that too.
@Paul Y. can't get in the club; gotta parking lot pimp: That is the reason I am split on the issue... It would not be a problem for automotively savvy people like us, but for the commoners, it opens up a lot of room for unscrupulous shops to take advantage of people...
@Scandinavian Flick: We wouldn't have a problem if people put more thought into buying (and subsequently owning) a car than they do into buying, say, a phone or a dog.
Whenever I get a car inspected (I live in NY) I peel off the sticker before taking it in. When I was failed because negative camber made my tires bald down to the steel belt they said I had to get it fixed there because I had no inspection sticker. I told them I had the inspection sticker on me so I just left and they did not charge me $11.
What I like about NY is that your fender can be rusted off and there can be huge holes in your side rails, but they will still pass you. In Penna a quarter sized hole or bigger and you fail.
@87CapriceEstate: Yeah, that's true-- PA is ridiculous. Everyone here complains, but it can be much more of a hassle.
Fun fact: you do not need a windshield, but you do need wipers to pass inspection in NY. As such, I have not worked out how a street-driven Atom would get by here.
@Paul Y. can't get in the club; gotta parking lot pimp: As an ex-Toyota dealer service employee, that price quote on Scion brakes was too high. The whole thing should've been $400-500 give or take depending on labor rate and taxes in your state.
Supposedly a "fail safe" system that had failed before, but the drivers then noticed they were running up on another train and manually braking--even though the system said "all clear."
Last I heard, they did not know if the brakes failed, but there was no indication the driver used them.
This will likely end up like the Toronto subway crash years back. The back up system will have failed for some small reason (wear and tear), the operator will have been distracted and folks are killed.
I took transit every day for a decade - I always felt safer on the GO instead of in a car. Too many idiots on the roads.
These trains looks like San Francisco BART units - who makes them? and how fast do they go?
They've got several different series of cars, made by 2 or 3 different companies. The out-of-control car was apparently one of the original series of trains from when the system opened in '76, made by Rohr, I think. I know they've been rehabbed several times and were supposed to be phased out soon. The train that got hit was something newer.
@Kapitän Lebertransplantation: You are correct, the hit and split train was a Rohr car, made in the mid-late 70's. The car that got hit was (I heard) a 5000 series CAF car, built in the 1990's.
@ursa: As I recall, the first cars when the Metro opened back in the late 70s were French. Don't remember who made them exactly - I was ten.
Top speed is a guess, but seeing how the Orange line heading west to Vienna can pace and even pass traffic on I-66, I'd say it's somewhere north of 70mph. This crash notwithstanding, getting beyond 40mph in rush hour traffic is worth mass transit's other hassles.
I have the feeling that this was because the train operator was texting or using the phone. At first I thought this was another Boston train wreck, which would have been number three(four maybe) wreck due to texting.
@engineerd hates hydrogen leaks:You forgot about Senator Chucky Schumer. I'm sure he's knocking folks down right now to get in front of a camera, any camera. He's always wanting to legislate something out of existence.
@Flathead Smith: Good call. Others to consider: Jim Bunning, Tom Coburn, Dick Durbin, Carl Levin, and Harry Reid. That's just on the Senate side. You have 435 demagogues frothing at the mouth on the other side.
I'm trying to figure out how that could have been prevented. off the top of my head, the construction of the train coaches could be beefed up. but maybe that fancy active sonar that is in some of the newer cars would have helped.
i hope the investigation provides some positive insight as to how to make the rails safer for the populous.
@B1663R: I'm not sure if the Metro system uses stop arms at all signal locations like NYCT does, but Metro does/can work in an automated mode without motorman interface. Reports are saying that they are looking into whether it was in that mode or "manual" ie: motorman. I take the LIRR and Subway everyday and generally feel and know I'm safer there, than on the area roads.
@B1663R: I used to work on these cars. The cars that crashed into the other set were older cars, I believe some of the original cars WMATA purchased over 30 years ago. The construction of those cars was such that the floors separate from the body on severe impace. Its a design flaw, and one that's since been corrected.
Also, I've personally been in trains going 60 mph in manual mode. These trains, however, were in auto mode when they crashed, which means there was a failure of the trackside monitoring devices coupled with an operator who was either distracted or impaired in such a way so as to prevent her from hitting the emergency brake.
According to repeated statements from Congress, President Barack Obama, Supreme Court Justice scalia, the CEO of Metro, and some guy named Joe, nothing of what you are about to see...ever happened
"Conn, sonar! I'm picking up another train! Could be a passenger train out of downtown!"
"Where is he, Jonesy?"
"In our baffles, sir! Coming up fast!"
"Very well, Jonesy."
"Conn, sonar! Target is going Crazy Ivan!"
"Which way, Jonesy?"
"Which way do you think, jackass!"
"XO, launch countermeasures!"
"Aye sir, dead bums and hookers away!"
"Conn, sonar! The dead bums aren't working, sir! The target hasn't slowed enough! I think he's got us, sir!"
First, let me express my condolences for those who's lives were impacted by this either directly, or their families. However, in looking over the photos, I also realized that we, too often, overlook the efforts of the men and women who serve as EMTs or in Fire/Rescue. To them, I wish to send my utmost respect, and sincerest thanks.
12/10/09
Was that an Animal House reference, Matt? If so, nicely played!
12/10/09
For now, I'm confounded.
12/10/09
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12/10/09
Oh well; brakes are for quitters.
12/10/09
12/10/09
12/10/09
/rant
Sorry, I have a serious beef with CA smog laws... I could go on and on, but I am sure you know the deal...
12/10/09
12/10/09
...on the other hand, going into my last inspection, I went to a chain place that rhymes with "Schmonro", because they were open on a Saturday. I knew I was going to need brakes, and they did indeed barely pass, but they tried to sell me $350 pads (yes, just pads, and convinced me that calipers are $700 and would need to be replaced if I let my brakes go longer; I wasn't even down to the wear indicators) for my xB with stock brakes. I went home, priced some parts, and got pads and rotors for about $100, and did it myself the next week, and it only took an hour of my own time.
In the linked USA Today article, a woman from downstate NY claims that a shop took her sticker and told her that her car failed, so they'd have to repair it so they can leave. That's illegal-- if you fail inspection, you're charged $11, and are free to leave to get repairs done when- and where ever you want. In theory, you're required to get re-inspected within the month on your sticker, but you're in little danger of being ticketed unless you're a year or more overdue (they're color-coded), or really pissed off a cop who pulled you over for something else decided to ding you for that too.
12/10/09
12/10/09
12/10/09
What I like about NY is that your fender can be rusted off and there can be huge holes in your side rails, but they will still pass you. In Penna a quarter sized hole or bigger and you fail.
12/10/09
Fun fact: you do not need a windshield, but you do need wipers to pass inspection in NY. As such, I have not worked out how a street-driven Atom would get by here.
12/10/09
12/10/09
12/10/09
I'm a sensationalist. Both are true.
06/23/09
Tough question.
06/23/09
Last I heard, they did not know if the brakes failed, but there was no indication the driver used them.
06/23/09
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06/23/09
To eliminate first and last cars entirely, we're going to need a lot more cars, and a track layout that's set up as a loop.
I like this idea.
06/23/09
I took transit every day for a decade - I always felt safer on the GO instead of in a car. Too many idiots on the roads.
These trains looks like San Francisco BART units - who makes them? and how fast do they go?
06/23/09
They've got several different series of cars, made by 2 or 3 different companies. The out-of-control car was apparently one of the original series of trains from when the system opened in '76, made by Rohr, I think. I know they've been rehabbed several times and were supposed to be phased out soon. The train that got hit was something newer.
06/23/09
06/23/09
Top speed is a guess, but seeing how the Orange line heading west to Vienna can pace and even pass traffic on I-66, I'd say it's somewhere north of 70mph. This crash notwithstanding, getting beyond 40mph in rush hour traffic is worth mass transit's other hassles.
06/23/09
06/23/09
Betting on who will be the first to propose ridiculous legislation on train safety is open. Current odds:
Dodd: Even
Frank: 1-3
McCain: 1-13
Baucus: 1-4
Feingold: Even
Boxer: Even
06/23/09
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06/23/09
i hope the investigation provides some positive insight as to how to make the rails safer for the populous.
till then, I'm still gonna drive.
06/23/09
06/23/09
I take the LIRR and Subway everyday and generally feel and know I'm safer there, than on the area roads.
06/23/09
Also, I've personally been in trains going 60 mph in manual mode. These trains, however, were in auto mode when they crashed, which means there was a failure of the trackside monitoring devices coupled with an operator who was either distracted or impaired in such a way so as to prevent her from hitting the emergency brake.
06/23/09
06/23/09
According to repeated statements from Congress, President Barack Obama, Supreme Court Justice scalia, the CEO of Metro, and some guy named Joe, nothing of what you are about to see...ever happened
"Conn, sonar! I'm picking up another train! Could be a passenger train out of downtown!"
"Where is he, Jonesy?"
"In our baffles, sir! Coming up fast!"
"Very well, Jonesy."
"Conn, sonar! Target is going Crazy Ivan!"
"Which way, Jonesy?"
"Which way do you think, jackass!"
"XO, launch countermeasures!"
"Aye sir, dead bums and hookers away!"
"Conn, sonar! The dead bums aren't working, sir! The target hasn't slowed enough! I think he's got us, sir!"
"DAMMIT! RIG TRAIN FOR IMPACT!"
24 hours later, in the Metro control room
"Where is the wreck?"
"Someplace deep in the underground, sir."
"All this way to hide a train in a tunnel...."
"Welcome to the New World, sir."
06/23/09
you know, pobody is nerfect ok?
big meanies, i'm taking my ball and going home...
06/23/09
06/23/09
However, in looking over the photos, I also realized that we, too often, overlook the efforts of the men and women who serve as EMTs or in Fire/Rescue. To them, I wish to send my utmost respect, and sincerest thanks.
06/23/09