This isn't about Rick at all. This is just unbelievable that the president of the United States is now dictating what occurs in private industry (albeit a publicly-traded company). I don't care that GM took gov't money, the fact that the gov't, let alone an incompentent one-term senator with absolutely no business experience, essentially fired the president of GM is scary.
If I was president, I would have fired Wagoner a long time ago. Why? Here's my list of reasons:
-After all these years, GM's quality is still inconsistent
-Past statements that higher fuel prices "won't matter" to truck sales... which shows a shocking lack of foresight.
-Canceling the EV1 rather than continuing to develop it and taking a lot of the cost out by moving it to a common chassis
-Not listening to hard core EV1 enthusiasts and instead of letting them have their cars, taking them back and crushing them
-Canceling/destroying diesel-electric and gasoline-electric prototypes (yes there were functional hybrid versions of the EV1... even a 4 door model)
-Handing off GM Ovonic (owner of key NiMH battery patents) to Chevron when they could have used that intellectual property to make money off of every CURRENT maker of hybrids using NiMH batteries and could have given themselves a competitive advantage and would have continued to give GM a bit of an advantage all the way to around 2015 when the patent runs out.
-Selling off GM Electromotive in 2003... and all the diesel-electric powertrain knowledge that went with it.
-NOT forging partnerships with battery makers such as Panasonic to facilitate REAL headway in battery research and profit.
-Focusing on spreading disinformation such as "hybrids don't make sense" when in fact Electromotive has been making diesel-electric powertrains for decades and when you run the numbers, it already made sense in large vehicle applications such as transit buses, rail road switcher engines and many other applications where there's a lot of stopping and starting. And that also extends to LiIon batteries... saying that they "Weren't mass produced" when in fact they were... Laptop computers anyone? All that needed to be modified was the packaging and figure out a way to get the cost down (which is where a battery maker like Panasonic comes into play)
-Doing NOTHING with research paid for by the US Government... specifically... those 80mpg cars developed during the Clinton Administration. What happened to that research and why couldn't they make use of it instead of having to start from scratch with the Volt?
This is all stuff that happened on Wagoner's watch.
When you're in charge and pulling in a 7 figure salary, you're getting paid for your foresight. Wagoner didn't have very good foresight... nor was he very good at leveraging GM's intellectual property.
Nobody should be surprised that his head is rolling now.
@petersterncan: Simply put, you don't get it and obviously didn't understsnd my post. Look at the big picture, not just at Waggoner. The president of the United States and/or the federal gov't has no place being involved in the firing of a private industy CEO or any other person. I don't care how incompetent Rick may have been, but this fucking idiot in the White House has no business, indeed, no authority, to call for the resignation of someone in a private company. Unreal.
Oh, and LOL to the "80mpg cars" developed under the Clinton administration. Gimme a break.
@Rock517...now mostly lurking: To extend your argument a bit, the US government has no business giving money (yes I know "making loan guarantees" to be accurate) to either Wall Street or the automakers. Since they are, continuing to do so without taking steps to ensure that the money isn't just being thrown down a hole would be highly irresponsible. Personally, I think AIG, GM, and all of the other "too big to fail" corporations should have been allowed to do just that. At least the people who caused this mess would be suffering right along with the rest of us, instead of hiring lawyers to make sure they get their precious bonuses.
Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was starred
Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was unstarred
One thing of note: They installed The Fritz as CEO.
Not sure that's a better thing. I've watched his progress from GM Europe president (where he did do well) to CFO to now, actually sat next to him during a dinner (wasn't impressed on personal level).
He doesn't impress me as someone who can turn GM around.
Here's a thought for everybody screaming "socialist" "communist" and "unfair".
When you go to the bank with hat in hand looking for a loan to keep your business afloat, does the bank not look at your organization and make certain "recommendations" (IE conditions) that you have to agree to before they will hand out the money? Of course they do, it would be seriously fucking irresponsible to do otherwise. Just because Congress (not Obama) blindly gave nearly a trillion dollars to the fucking idiots on wall street who for the most part got us into this mess, doesn't mean we should do the same for the auto industry. The US government is making loans here. For them not to attach conditions would be highly irresponsible. To blindly give money to the automakers just because they did to the financial industry would be compounding their original error (which error, I must point out, was made BEFORE Obama took office).
Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was starred
Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was unstarred
@Mike the Dog will work for a Preview Button!: I'm not sure exactly what your saying. I take it your against the bailout bonanza, and I feel the reason that some are shouting alarmist things is because they feel that the government needs to take a "hands off" approach to the private sector.
So, yes I agree with attaching conditions, but I don't think that we should have given them loans in the first place. If I could echo the German and Swedish Finance Ministers when they stated that they "Weren't interested in getting into the business of making cars."
@Schm-san writes haikus for yous!: What I'm saying is that the government shouldn't be handing out money with no strings attached. To anybody. If there are going to be bailout loans made, they should have strings attached. That response was mainly to the people saying "They just handed a trillion to Wall Street, they should just hand a trillion to Detroit". They should have placed some major conditions on Wall Street, and the because they failed to do so, we shouldn't be demonizing them for placing conditions on Detroit's bailout.
Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was starred
Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was unstarred
I think Obama's message to the unions, CEOs, and bondholders will be that the government is serious about getting this problem solved. No one is, or should be safe. Cooperate and possibly save your positions, be a part of the solution and not a part of the problem. The choice is yours. We're not f**king around!
I'd give you hand, but my punishment for saying that Bush was an idiot is the ongoing torment of slowly transforming my car into a rolling art-deco vehicle covered with flags, fireworks, and little pictures of Cheney holding a shotgun.
Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was starred
Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was unstarred
I'd like to point out that according to reports, Obama asked Wagoner to step down, as opposed to demanding it as some here are apparently assuming. Since he seems to have agreed, I guess we won't find out what would have happened had he declined to do so.
Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was starred
Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was unstarred
@Mike the Dog will work for a Preview Button!: Well, you know, sometimes "asking" doesn't mean that he actually politely requested it. "Asking" could just be a polite way of putting it in the press release.
But then again, I don't know what went on and I can't say any different.
@elwood: I wasn't there either, and can only draw conclusions from the information given. There are a lot of conclusions that can be drawn from the paucity of facts available at this point, so I prefer to remain cautiously optimistic.
Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was starred
Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was unstarred
If by asking you mean like "asking" the last tresspasser on my property to leave by hooking a log chain to his Subaru and dragging it off the property. Yup, just asked.
I would have loved to sit in on that conversation between Obama and Rick.
Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was starred
Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was unstarred
So even after GM is brought back to life, will it make anything to get excited about? New face here and there, big deal. Not looking at the human toll, failing then comming back as a smaller profitable company should still be an option. One or two Volt like cars and two or three well built Accord and Camry killers... might have been what they needed. IMHO
@tripl3fast: And you have been where for the past few years?
They are doing just fine on the product side these days. The problem now lies with the business side, and that, unfortunately, is a vastly more difficult problem to sort out, regardless of what option is chosen.
@mikedrawcar: We all engage in a little trolling from time to time.
To play the devil's advocate, however, he is absolutely correct from a sheer business standpoint. As much as it pains me to say it, as I was looking forward to the introduction of a real El Camino replacement, it just made zero sense from a business perspective in this turmoil.
03/30/09
03/30/09
If I was president, I would have fired Wagoner a long time ago. Why? Here's my list of reasons:
-After all these years, GM's quality is still inconsistent
-Past statements that higher fuel prices "won't matter" to truck sales... which shows a shocking lack of foresight.
-Canceling the EV1 rather than continuing to develop it and taking a lot of the cost out by moving it to a common chassis
-Not listening to hard core EV1 enthusiasts and instead of letting them have their cars, taking them back and crushing them
-Canceling/destroying diesel-electric and gasoline-electric prototypes (yes there were functional hybrid versions of the EV1... even a 4 door model)
-Handing off GM Ovonic (owner of key NiMH battery patents) to Chevron when they could have used that intellectual property to make money off of every CURRENT maker of hybrids using NiMH batteries and could have given themselves a competitive advantage and would have continued to give GM a bit of an advantage all the way to around 2015 when the patent runs out.
-Selling off GM Electromotive in 2003... and all the diesel-electric powertrain knowledge that went with it.
-NOT forging partnerships with battery makers such as Panasonic to facilitate REAL headway in battery research and profit.
-Focusing on spreading disinformation such as "hybrids don't make sense" when in fact Electromotive has been making diesel-electric powertrains for decades and when you run the numbers, it already made sense in large vehicle applications such as transit buses, rail road switcher engines and many other applications where there's a lot of stopping and starting. And that also extends to LiIon batteries... saying that they "Weren't mass produced" when in fact they were... Laptop computers anyone? All that needed to be modified was the packaging and figure out a way to get the cost down (which is where a battery maker like Panasonic comes into play)
-Doing NOTHING with research paid for by the US Government... specifically... those 80mpg cars developed during the Clinton Administration. What happened to that research and why couldn't they make use of it instead of having to start from scratch with the Volt?
This is all stuff that happened on Wagoner's watch.
When you're in charge and pulling in a 7 figure salary, you're getting paid for your foresight. Wagoner didn't have very good foresight... nor was he very good at leveraging GM's intellectual property.
Nobody should be surprised that his head is rolling now.
03/30/09
Oh, and LOL to the "80mpg cars" developed under the Clinton administration. Gimme a break.
03/30/09
03/30/09
Not sure that's a better thing. I've watched his progress from GM Europe president (where he did do well) to CFO to now, actually sat next to him during a dinner (wasn't impressed on personal level).
He doesn't impress me as someone who can turn GM around.
03/29/09
03/29/09
When you go to the bank with hat in hand looking for a loan to keep your business afloat, does the bank not look at your organization and make certain "recommendations" (IE conditions) that you have to agree to before they will hand out the money? Of course they do, it would be seriously fucking irresponsible to do otherwise. Just because Congress (not Obama) blindly gave nearly a trillion dollars to the fucking idiots on wall street who for the most part got us into this mess, doesn't mean we should do the same for the auto industry. The US government is making loans here. For them not to attach conditions would be highly irresponsible. To blindly give money to the automakers just because they did to the financial industry would be compounding their original error (which error, I must point out, was made BEFORE Obama took office).
03/29/09
03/30/09
So, yes I agree with attaching conditions, but I don't think that we should have given them loans in the first place. If I could echo the German and Swedish Finance Ministers when they stated that they "Weren't interested in getting into the business of making cars."
03/30/09
03/29/09
03/29/09
This is my interpretation as well, but we shall see tomorrow.
03/29/09
03/29/09
03/29/09
Wait, am I allowed to say that without sounding un-American?
03/29/09
03/29/09
Ya, you are. Just start drinking heavily. Works for me.
03/29/09
I'd give you hand, but my punishment for saying that Bush was an idiot is the ongoing torment of slowly transforming my car into a rolling art-deco vehicle covered with flags, fireworks, and little pictures of Cheney holding a shotgun.
America, f*ck yeah.
03/29/09
I have Black Label, Gold Label, and a little bit of Jameson left. I am willing to share.
03/29/09
03/29/09
03/29/09
/couldn't resist
03/29/09
Rick, Rick, you make me sick
You may have built some fly cars
but your still a dick.
You fly around in your big corporate jets
But you always loose, a bit like the Mets
Rick, rick, we've had such a good time
I just can't wait to make another crude rhyme
You, Fritz and Max Lutz,
your companies union still had you guys by the nutz.
It's been a long time waitin'
We all knew Barack was procrastinatin
Watch out for the golden parachute on the way down.
03/29/09
I think the genius is tying Lutz to nutz.
It works in so many ways.
03/29/09
03/29/09
03/29/09
But then again, I don't know what went on and I can't say any different.
03/29/09
03/29/09
03/29/09
03/29/09
If by asking you mean like "asking" the last tresspasser on my property to leave by hooking a log chain to his Subaru and dragging it off the property. Yup, just asked.
I would have loved to sit in on that conversation between Obama and Rick.
03/29/09
03/29/09
03/29/09
03/29/09
03/29/09
They are doing just fine on the product side these days. The problem now lies with the business side, and that, unfortunately, is a vastly more difficult problem to sort out, regardless of what option is chosen.
03/29/09
03/29/09
Just look out for them plagues we got coming.
It is NOT gonna be pretty.
03/29/09
03/29/09
03/29/09
To play the devil's advocate, however, he is absolutely correct from a sheer business standpoint. As much as it pains me to say it, as I was looking forward to the introduction of a real El Camino replacement, it just made zero sense from a business perspective in this turmoil.
03/29/09