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F22 Raptor Gets Fragged By T-38 Training Jet

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Sigsworth
04/22/09

In reply to F22 Raptor Gets Fragged By T-38 Training Jet
Just to be clear, I don't mean the Jalopnik article. I'm just ranting based on imagined biases. I can't view the video so I have no idea what it says.
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beercheck
04/22/09

@Sigsworth: I was gonna say...

I appreciate your point, but this situation didn't justify arguing it. There was no "reporter" here. The video is simply an alleged T-38's gunnery footage. There was no "imagined bias" other than our (the readers') own.

Plus, you keep spelling "T-38" wrong..
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Plecostomus [Tyrrell]
04/22/09

In reply to F22 Raptor Gets Fragged By T-38 Training Jet
COOL STORY, BRO.
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beercheck
04/22/09

In reply to F22 Raptor Gets Fragged By T-38 Training Jet
Just posting this photo because I love this photo. And it kindasorta relates.

Swiss F-5 fighter taxiing through a village between runway and cavern bunker at the reserve airfield Turtmann:

Source: [defense-and-freedom.blogspot.com]
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beercheck
04/22/09

@beercheck: Hrm..

[3.bp.blogspot.com]
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don_mynack
04/22/09

In reply to F22 Raptor Gets Fragged By T-38 Training Jet
The F-22 is a ridiculous boondoggle, redesigned so many times that it's now almost bomber sized. As such, it has the requisite lack of maneuverability - it's hardly surprising that the nimble T-38 could take one down. Considering the only "combat" tests the F-22's have undergone have pretty much been rigged not to showcase these vulnerabilities (in order to keep the budget numbers up) - perhaps with a new administration we can finally kill this money pit. I'm not exactly hopeful, however.
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beercheck
04/22/09

@don_mynack: Well, that's certainly one way of looking at it.
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beercheck
04/22/09

In reply to F22 Raptor Gets Fragged By T-38 Training Jet
I have it on good authority that the T-38 pilot went below hard-deck.
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Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet
04/22/09

In reply to F22 Raptor Gets Fragged By T-38 Training Jet
All your fighter are belong to us.
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engineerd
04/22/09

In reply to F22 Raptor Gets Fragged By T-38 Training Jet
You have a couple things going on here. The F22 is not designed for air combat. It is designed to have superior weapons and electronics so that a kill can be made before the pilot even sees the other plane. This strategy is obviously better than letting another plane to get into a position where they have the potential to kill you. As such, the F22 pilots may not be the most well-trained when it comes to air-to-air combat.

Along with that, the T-38 pilot is probably really good. If he was a trainer for Red Flag, then he is probably one of the best air-to-air combat pilots in the US Air Force.

I wonder if they handicapped the F22 at all...like not allow him any simulated long-range weapons?
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IamZardoz
04/22/09

In reply to F22 Raptor Gets Fragged By T-38 Training Jet
Lets see, an F-22 costs 150 million plus and and the latest F-16 goes for around 27 million each. Is an F-22 worth 5 or more F-16's? I doubt it.
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beercheck
04/22/09

@IamZardoz: An interesting read:

[www.theatlantic.com]
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leavethegun-takethecannoli
04/22/09

In reply to F22 Raptor Gets Fragged By T-38 Training Jet
Hey, are you guys going to cover the story on Leona Helmsley leaving a fortune to her dogs?

I heard she has been in a car, so it probably qualifies for coverage much in the same way that these fighter pilots have also been in a car.

j/k Pretty cool story.
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Almostbanned
04/22/09

In reply to F22 Raptor Gets Fragged By T-38 Training Jet
Yeah, its not entirely surprising that an extremely skilled pilot in at T-38 was able to occasinally get the better of the F-22 during close-in combat. The T-38 is very nimble and has good thrust-to-weight... it was really designed for that kind of a fight. Also, its been demonstrated over and over again that pilot training and skill are the overriding success factors in combat, well beyond the equipment.

I'd be more curious to know what the rules of engagement for this exercise were, and then see it played out over several engagements and with several pilots... nothing is invincible, so its bound to happen.

The thing is, realistically this is a situation the F22 shouldn't ever find itself in. It wasn't designed necessarily as a stand-alone weapon, but rather as an integrated platform that can get on station quickly and kill from a distance... and power its way out of any fight that it didn't have a clear advantage in. In reality, this would have been over before it started.

Also... why is this on Jalopnik?
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Mobius
04/22/09

@Almostbanned [jezebel took away my star]: It's on Jalopnik because the Planelopnik servers are up and running yet. Botnet, you see.
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Mobius
04/22/09

@Mobius_1: *aren't* Damn spelling mistakes.
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Ash78, cube farmer
04/22/09

@Almostbanned [jezebel took away my star]: Yep, in a real-life scenario, it would go something like this:

T-38 pilot: "Gee, sure is a nice day for some flying. Incoming ordnance? That can't be right, I'm the only one arouBLAM!

F-22 pilot: "Threat neutralized, returning to base"
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Plecostomus [Tyrrell]
04/22/09

@Almostbanned [jezebel took away my star]: You, apparently, are not familiar with our planeopnik features.
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Mad_Science
04/22/09

@Ash78: Coffee ejection, thanks to you.

I had a moment like that when offroading out by Plaster City, east of San Diego. This is where the Blue Angels are based out of.

We're cruising along in the dirt in a convoy of Jeeps, and start to hear a jet. It took maybe 12 seconds for the thing to go from one horizon to the other. If we were a target, we'd have been lucky to scramble for cover beyond the blast crater that the Jeeps were about to become.
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Michael J Backus
04/22/09

In reply to F22 Raptor Gets Fragged By T-38 Training Jet
"The F-22 is the world's most advanced fighter"

"The Eurofighter is the world's most advanced fighter"

"The MiG-29 is the world's most advanced fighter"

This must be why we have wars. It's like drag racing for pinks for the military.
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Number_Six
04/22/09

@Michael J Backus: The F-22 is the world's most advanced fighter.

The Eurofighter is the world's best compromise.

The Mig-29 is the world's toughest fighter.
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SumTingWong Hates Prius Write-ups.
04/22/09

@Number_six: Agreed. The Mig is a great, hulking, sky-pig. A nimble and lethal sky-pig, sure.. But it'll land and take off in places that would test your average SUV.
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FЯeeMan
04/22/09

@SumTingWong Hates Prius Write-ups.: Dude, most people's front yards would be a test for the average SUV.
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Ash78, cube farmer
04/22/09

In reply to F22 Raptor Gets Fragged By T-38 Training Jet
Speaking of the T-38/F-5, maybe the F-22 should have slammed on the brakes and let the other guy fly right by.
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Jeb_Hoge
04/22/09

In reply to F22 Raptor Gets Fragged By T-38 Training Jet
I said this over at Gizmodo, but I'll say it again here. I'm reminded of the kid in the Civic who claims he "killed" a Mustang GT at a stoplight, but the Mustang driver probably didn't even know the Civic was racing.
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beercheck
04/22/09

@Jeb_Hoge: Please wipe down before coming in here. Don't want any residual Giz getting in our shag.
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cgarison
04/22/09

In reply to F22 Raptor Gets Fragged By T-38 Training Jet
The embedded video was killed quicker than a T38 taking out an F22 Raptor.
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Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face.
04/22/09

@cgarison: Click on the video pane after it tells you "Embedding disabled" It'll take you to the vid on the hosting site.
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Mobius
04/22/09

In reply to F22 Raptor Gets Fragged By T-38 Training Jet
I downed a bunch of F-22s.

I Tom Clancy's HAWX, that is...
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Plecostomus [Tyrrell]
04/22/09

@Mobius_1: Same.
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