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Detroit, 6:45 PM
Sun Dec 6
14 posts in the last 24 hours

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  • posts about #thermoelectricgenerators more →

    BMW Partners With NASA On New Thermoelectric Exhaust System

    Researchers Continue Attempts To Turn Car Exhaust Into Power
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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of 6061-Tsix 6061-Tsix
    03/11/09

    In reply to BMW Partners With NASA On New Thermoelectric Exhaust System
    So when do we start talking about Stirling engines?
     Reply
    6061-Tsix was starred 6061-Tsix was unstarred
    Image of Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face.
    03/11/09

    @6061-Tsix: I dunno, when they become efficient and reliable enough to be more than a novelty?
     Reply
    Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was starred Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was unstarred
    Image of jduffy13 jduffy13
    03/11/09

    In reply to BMW Partners With NASA On New Thermoelectric Exhaust System
    Clever.


    And for all the money that's dumped into NASA shouldn't there be some kind of return for the real world, somewhere?

     Reply
    jduffy13 was starred jduffy13 was unstarred
    Image of AmishJohn AmishJohn
    03/11/09

    @jduffy13: Aww, the bitter little troll too busy to do 30 seconds of research?
     Reply
    AmishJohn was starred AmishJohn was unstarred
    Image of mdensch mdensch
    03/11/09

    In reply to BMW Partners With NASA On New Thermoelectric Exhaust System
    Yourhero:


    You must be new here. The people who post here are among the most brilliant people on the planet.


    Why don't ya keep yer comments to yerself until you get to know this site a little better.

     Reply
    mdensch was starred mdensch was unstarred
    Image of Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face.
    03/11/09

    @mdensch: Who the fuck are you to criticize someone for being a noob? You can't even find the damned "Reply" button!
     Reply
    Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was starred Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was unstarred
    Image of JC Whitless JC Whitless
    03/11/09

    @Mike the Dog:
     Reply
    JC Whitless was starred JC Whitless was unstarred
    Image of YourHero YourHero
    03/11/09

    In reply to BMW Partners With NASA On New Thermoelectric Exhaust System
    it's funny how half the people commenting on this think they can outsmart nasa scientists and bmw engineers without any research at all.


    just like every other invention, this will start off big and bulky and will gradually become smaller, lighter, and more efficient.

     Reply
    YourHero was starred YourHero was unstarred
    Image of damnelantra™ damnelantra™
    03/11/09

    @YourHero: like every modern car!
     Reply
    damnelantra™ was starred damnelantra™ was unstarred
    Image of LTDScott LTDScott
    03/11/09

    In reply to BMW Partners With NASA On New Thermoelectric Exhaust System
    Let's just hope Chrysler won't be employing this technology on the Challenger.
     Reply
    LTDScott was starred LTDScott was unstarred
    Image of engineerd engineerd
    03/11/09

    In reply to BMW Partners With NASA On New Thermoelectric Exhaust System
    Here's an alternative. Steam power FTW!


    [www.greencarcongress.com]

     Reply
    engineerd was starred engineerd was unstarred
    Image of gtzzoom gtzzoom
    03/11/09

    In reply to BMW Partners With NASA On New Thermoelectric Exhaust System
    Engineerd....that was the old VW beetle redirecting exhaust heat back into the cabin. I had one and the heat smelled like exhaust..so I never used it. As for the NASA system....geez, how much 'greener' can we get, other than using a darn bicycle
     Reply
    gtzzoom was starred gtzzoom was unstarred
    Image of SirNotAppearing SirNotAppearing
    03/11/09

    @gtzzoom: None. None more green.
     Reply
    SirNotAppearing was starred SirNotAppearing was unstarred
    Image of engineerd engineerd
    03/11/09

    @gtzzoom: Oh yeah. I thought there was a technology demonstrator in the '90s where they were trying to recapture exhaust heat for something. Oh well.


    @SirNotAppearing: I thought this idea would be a 3 on a scale of 11.

     Reply
    engineerd was starred engineerd was unstarred
    Image of Adam Spano Adam Spano
    03/11/09

    In reply to BMW Partners With NASA On New Thermoelectric Exhaust System
    Bonus point to Wojdyla for the Clockwork Orange referance!


    They could use a system like this to power a small electric compressor for your air-conditioning or stereo system and lift some of the weight off the alternator and pulley system, freeing up some horsepower robbing engine-drag...?

     Reply
    Adam Spano was starred Adam Spano was unstarred
    Image of area_educator area_educator
    03/11/09

    @Adam Spano:
    Bonus point to Wojdyla for the Clockwork Orange referance!


    Now, I very much want a shirt with a picture of teh droogs in lab coats and goggles, maybe some lab equipment, captioned "A bit of the ol' ultrascience"

     Reply
    area_educator was starred area_educator was unstarred
    Image of AmishJohn AmishJohn
    03/11/09

    @area_educator: I'd rather see a YouTube vid of them kicking Bob the Builder tight in the Nardellis to the tune of "Singin' in the Rain".
     Reply
    AmishJohn was starred AmishJohn was unstarred
    Image of engineerd engineerd
    03/11/09

    In reply to BMW Partners With NASA On New Thermoelectric Exhaust System
    Wasn't someone else using waste exhaust heat for climate control? I vaguely remember reading something about it. I'm sure it only made it as far as a technology demonstrator.


    I know from my work on facilities that energy recovery from exhaust/waste heat can be a pretty pricey system for the benefit. We've built a couple test facilities in Germany and both clients wanted us to put air-to-air heat exchangers to recover waste heat from the exhaust and purge systems. We pointed out to them that we could do that, but the exhaust system has very little heat in the grand scheme of things and the purge system is rarely used. The payback on the design/construction costs of these systems was more than the 2-year industry norm and closer to 30 years. Not really worth it.


    On a car, though, you do constantly produce heat through the exhaust, so if you can somehow capture that heat and convert it to energy cheaply enough some good can come out of it. By cheap I mean pretty much no additional cost.


    Consider a vehicle that gets 17/24 city/hwy, costs $30,000, 50/50 city/hwy driving split, 12,000 miles per year, and $2 gas. Now add $1,000 for a system like this and a 5% mileage increase in both city and highway driving and the payoff is over 107 years.


    It would add some smug credits to a gas-engined car, though.

     Reply
    engineerd was starred engineerd was unstarred
    Image of SirNotAppearing SirNotAppearing
    03/11/09

    @engineerd thinks cannoli is deserving of a star: I ran a hose from my exhaust to the back window during the winter months to keep me warm.
     Reply
    SirNotAppearing was starred SirNotAppearing was unstarred
    Image of engineerd engineerd
    03/11/09

    @SirNotAppearing: I run a hose from my exhaust into my bedroom to help keep it warm in the winter. It helps me sleep better, too.
     Reply
    engineerd was starred engineerd was unstarred
    Image of c0de c0de
    03/11/09

    In reply to BMW Partners With NASA On New Thermoelectric Exhaust System
    what about the added weight ?! 200 W = 0.268 hp

    here's some math:

    200 watts = 147.52 ft·lbs/s

    50 mph = 73.3 ft/s

    so if we assume this contraption is only 2 lbs

    then moving it at 50mph will need P = 146.6 ft.lbs/s

    thus at any weight more than 2lbs this thing would be taking power away from the engine rather than helping it.


    Question is, where did i go wrong ?!

     Reply
    c0de was starred c0de was unstarred
    Image of damnelantra™ damnelantra™
    03/11/09

    @c0de: you didnt show your work!
     Reply
    damnelantra™ was starred damnelantra™ was unstarred
    Image of bearslayer bearslayer
    03/11/09

    In reply to BMW Partners With NASA On New Thermoelectric Exhaust System
    5% increase in efficiency... before or after compensating for the weight of that system? I'm pretty sure thermocouples work on chunky plates of dense material transferring said heat.. pretty neat though.
     Reply
    bearslayer was starred bearslayer was unstarred
    Image of engineerd engineerd
    03/11/09

    @bearslayer: Thermocouples can be very small and light. They work on the principle of dissimilar metals producing a small electric charge based on the temperature. We use TCs that are just wires.


    [www.omega.com]

     Reply
    engineerd was starred engineerd was unstarred
    Image of Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face.
    03/11/09

    @engineerd thinks cannoli is deserving of a star: Huh, that's what those things are. I should have snagged a few of the literally hundreds of those we threw in the trash while closing down my former job. I've got a funny feeling that they are quite expensive to buy, like a lot of the other stuff that got destroyed because nobody wanted to bother donating it.
     Reply
    Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was starred Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was unstarred
    Image of c0de c0de
    03/11/09

    @engineerd thinks cannoli is deserving of a star: but those produce micro volts per degree celcius (30-70 microV/C as i recall) i have no clue on the amps, but i'm guessing you need a LOT of those to create 200 watts, the next best alternative is to put two huge plates (like @bearslayer: said) of Constantan and Chromel (those will give the highest output being an E-type thermocouple). think of it as one HUGE thermocouple.


    at least that's what i think they're doing.

     Reply
    c0de was starred c0de was unstarred
    Image of engineerd engineerd
    03/11/09

    @c0de: Very true. I was just pointing out that thermocouples aren't necessarily huge.
     Reply
    engineerd was starred engineerd was unstarred
    Image of the good dr zero the good dr zero
    03/11/09

    @Mike the Dog: A lot of thermocouples (for high temperature use, anyway) are made from platinum. So yes, you should have pocketed a few when they were throwing them out.
     Reply
    the good dr zero was starred the good dr zero was unstarred
    Image of Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face.
    03/11/09

    @the good dr zero: I'm fairly sure these were for low-temperature use in cryo-freezers and whatnot. It was a pharmaceutical research site, there were some autoclaves and incubators that might use high-temp ones, but there were a whole lot more refrigerators and freezers (ranging from +5°c to -70°c mechanical refrigeration units all the way down to liquid nitrogen baths). I still should have snagged some.
     Reply
    Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was starred Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was unstarred
    Image of JC Whitless JC Whitless
    03/11/09

    In reply to BMW Partners With NASA On New Thermoelectric Exhaust System
    So when the bottom side of your car encounters a cold puddle on the Dan Ryan, your radio shuts off?


    How about this....instead of pulley or engine driven alternators, what about putting small windmills on the roof?



    You see, you can get power from your power while you drive while you drive?

     Reply
    JC Whitless was starred JC Whitless was unstarred
    Image of BLS BLS
    03/11/09

    @JCWhitless - I'm totally Re-Starded: How about we make a front wheel drive electric car and we put generators on the rear wheels to make electricity for the from wheels and in the engine bay we put a wind turbine that scoops the air from the grill and makes electricity and in the trunk put a wind turbine that sucks air from under the car and makes electricity. And store it all in a giant battery on the roof. Then you can drive to work and when you drive home you will have made enough electricity to power your house for the rest of the night.
     Reply
    BLS was starred BLS was unstarred
    Image of maximum-sienna maximum-sienna
    03/11/09

    @BLS: Hey guys, anyone want to help me patent the perpetual energy machine? It will make millions from nothing.
     Reply
    maximum-sienna was starred maximum-sienna was unstarred
    Image of engineerd engineerd
    03/11/09

    @maximum-sienna already has a BMW GPS unit: Our government already has that locked up.
     Reply
    engineerd was starred engineerd was unstarred
    Image of Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face.
    03/11/09

    @maximum-sienna already has a BMW GPS unit: Steorn beat you to it.


    [www.steorn.com]


    I tried to find the Jalopnik article about these guys from a couple of years back, but I gave up rather quickly.

     Reply
    Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was starred Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was unstarred
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