Forget Snaab, VW's already got the Apple market covered. What with the whole "costs a lot" thing, and the "weird for no good reason" thing, and the "cult of ownership" bit, not to mention certain artsy metrosexual stereotypes.
Personally, I'll stick with my automotive equivalent of a DEC Alpha server running Linux.
"a special brand for entrepreneurs, dentists, doctors and agency people..."
Oh man, Porsche is going to have something to say about that. And then Nissan is going to have something to say about Porsche saying something about that.
So Saab will be similar having great power in engines yet not being able to put it to the tires for torque (like apple not be server friendly). I suppose all parts will be processed in high class Chinese factories. And the car will be sold only at trendy heaven-like boutiques and some oligarchial communication stores.
I would go for the IKEA approach if I were Saab. Make car buying an adventure and build your own at home with quality parts.
So the new Saab will have a sealed battery compartment that require visiting the dealership to change? Or perhaps it will overheat and the warmth in your lap will cause you to go sterile? It will be overpriced and driven by wannabe artistes? Hey at least it will look good.
Well, as an Apple power user for years (not fanboy, there's a difference), I can say that this strikes me as a very good idea. Apple has small market share but big image and bigger stock price and profits.
If I want cheap, ubiquitous and easily repaired over unique, stylish and well built, I'll buy a Chevy.
Saab is a part of GM, just like Chevrolet. And the next set of Saab vehicles will likely use all GM platforms, many of which will be shared with the Chevrolet Malibu, etc.
There is nothing crappy about most current GM vehicles.
@pauljones: Though I try to be an equal-opportunity hater, if I had to choose between the Apple of _______ and the GM of ______, well let's just say I'll go for the one that didn't build the Lumina.
@pauljones: What I'm trying to say is this: GM is fine at building boring but affordable ubiquitous vehicles, but that sure as hell hasn't been to Saab's advantage.
From what I've read, Saab is actually looking outside GM for its next-gen platforms (if they split), and if they put the right engine/platform/styling combo together, they could quickly regain their former image of quirky but clever and well-built machines.
With low overhead, Swedish government support, and a specific business plan, this sounds like a good idea to me.
The problem comes in finding next-gen platforms. Low overhead or not, developing a platform from scratch is costly and time consuming. At this point, I would doubt that Saab has the resources (manpower, capital, or otherwise) to do that. And when it comes down to it, so what? Granted, the 90s GM platforms weren't exactly spectacular, but the new round of platforms, including Theta, Zeta, Alpha, Sigma II, and Epsilon II are all great platforms. Combine that with the fact that no one is willing to buy Saab, I don't see any other car companies sharing with Saab.
If they do it right, Saab could come up with some excellent cars, as all of GM's platforms are extremely flexible and capable.
@pauljones: Since when has platform/engine sharing had anything to do with wanting to buy the company? There is so much platform and engine sharing these days, I think Saab can find options. Not saying that they need to go away from GM platforms, but I think using GM platform and engine packages does not make them unique in any way, and you'd be better off buying an Opel or a Chevy or whatever.
Using a GM or independently developed platform with an Alfa, Jaguar or Peugeot engine and a great design and things might get interesting again.
I would think that it has a lot to do with wanting to buy the company. Shy of that, I can't think of too many instances in which there has been one-way platform sharing. Most platform sharing occurs as a trade. For instance, Nissan is getting access to the Dodge Ram platform in exchange for giving Chrysler a good small car platform.
Saab, on the other hand, has nothing to offer up in that respect. It does not have massive production capacity. It does not have much in the way of capital. This is why no one wanted to buy Saab, and why I highly doubt that any other company would even consider sharing platforms with them, as it would not be beneficial to them.
Platform sharing in any form would does not make them unique in any way, whether they be GM platforms, Alfa platforms, Jaguar platforms, or Peugeot platforms.
So why would they not simply stick to what they have: access to all of GM's new platforms, all of which are very capable and very flexible?
I would agree that they would need to work a little harder to distinguish their cars, and I think that a little more autonomy would help that. But complete independence from GM at this point in time strikes me as a poor business case.
@pauljones: I think we've run this discussion to its end with one exception, the engine/platform idea.
Sometimes, economies of scale are what are expected in return. With the dissolution of the mega-huge carmakers, there will be more need for this in the near future. Did BMW get anything other than a cheap engine from Chrysler Brazil or Peugeot/Citroen? Nope.
I think just being able to say "we're not overpriced GM products anymore" will be a good start for Saab.
@EndlessMike: Joking aside, I'm betting that more than half of carbuyers would opt for a 10-year-loan if it were offered (because it gets the payments down!)
I'm old school. To me a car loan is 48 or 60 months. I understand that about a third of all car loans are 72+ months now (at least before the credit crunch). Scary.
Whenever someone makes reference to being the "Apple of _____", you should immediately start laughing, and definitely close off the purse strings.
It's generally an indication that they have no idea what makes Apple successful, and fail to realize that what works in the Short Attention Span Theater that is consumer electronics doesn't necessarily translate to other industries.
@Timtoolman, now with power tools!: Sorry, I've suffered under management who wants to be the Apple of my industry, but has no idea what that really means.
Things like market research, business models, customer needs and spending big money on materials and design are all considered unnecessary, despite the fact that they're what's required to be The Apple of anything.
I'd rather just hear leaders say "We're going to get it right" and go from there.
It wasn't all that long ago that apple had nothing.
I say give them a chance. I don't think they will truly be independent from GM for a long time yet, but I would be surprised if they didn't at least get some greater level of autonomy when it comes to product development.
I like the sketches of the new 9-5 that we have been teased with a couple of times here on Jalopnik, and I can only hope that they translate well into production.
@pauljones: I remember being at a tech expo in 98 (97?) and visiting the PC tables. Nobody would even walk near the Apple table. They finally had their presentation, and the rep turned out to an enthusiastic owner, who was paid to give the talk with hardware. They couldn't even afford a rep.
02/03/09
Personally, I'll stick with my automotive equivalent of a DEC Alpha server running Linux.
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Obviously you have never actually used a Mac, or owned/driven a Saab in the past ten years.
02/03/09
Oh man, Porsche is going to have something to say about that. And then Nissan is going to have something to say about Porsche saying something about that.
02/03/09
I would go for the IKEA approach if I were Saab. Make car buying an adventure and build your own at home with quality parts.
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Well, as an Apple power user for years (not fanboy, there's a difference), I can say that this strikes me as a very good idea. Apple has small market share but big image and bigger stock price and profits.
If I want cheap, ubiquitous and easily repaired over unique, stylish and well built, I'll buy a Chevy.
How's that working out?
02/03/09
Wow, so much Chevrolet hate.
Saab is a part of GM, just like Chevrolet. And the next set of Saab vehicles will likely use all GM platforms, many of which will be shared with the Chevrolet Malibu, etc.
There is nothing crappy about most current GM vehicles.
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LOL! That earned you a friend hearty-clicky-thingy.
02/03/09
From what I've read, Saab is actually looking outside GM for its next-gen platforms (if they split), and if they put the right engine/platform/styling combo together, they could quickly regain their former image of quirky but clever and well-built machines.
With low overhead, Swedish government support, and a specific business plan, this sounds like a good idea to me.
02/03/09
The problem comes in finding next-gen platforms. Low overhead or not, developing a platform from scratch is costly and time consuming. At this point, I would doubt that Saab has the resources (manpower, capital, or otherwise) to do that. And when it comes down to it, so what? Granted, the 90s GM platforms weren't exactly spectacular, but the new round of platforms, including Theta, Zeta, Alpha, Sigma II, and Epsilon II are all great platforms. Combine that with the fact that no one is willing to buy Saab, I don't see any other car companies sharing with Saab.
If they do it right, Saab could come up with some excellent cars, as all of GM's platforms are extremely flexible and capable.
02/03/09
Using a GM or independently developed platform with an Alfa, Jaguar or Peugeot engine and a great design and things might get interesting again.
02/03/09
I would think that it has a lot to do with wanting to buy the company. Shy of that, I can't think of too many instances in which there has been one-way platform sharing. Most platform sharing occurs as a trade. For instance, Nissan is getting access to the Dodge Ram platform in exchange for giving Chrysler a good small car platform.
Saab, on the other hand, has nothing to offer up in that respect. It does not have massive production capacity. It does not have much in the way of capital. This is why no one wanted to buy Saab, and why I highly doubt that any other company would even consider sharing platforms with them, as it would not be beneficial to them.
Platform sharing in any form would does not make them unique in any way, whether they be GM platforms, Alfa platforms, Jaguar platforms, or Peugeot platforms.
So why would they not simply stick to what they have: access to all of GM's new platforms, all of which are very capable and very flexible?
I would agree that they would need to work a little harder to distinguish their cars, and I think that a little more autonomy would help that. But complete independence from GM at this point in time strikes me as a poor business case.
02/03/09
Sometimes, economies of scale are what are expected in return. With the dissolution of the mega-huge carmakers, there will be more need for this in the near future. Did BMW get anything other than a cheap engine from Chrysler Brazil or Peugeot/Citroen? Nope.
I think just being able to say "we're not overpriced GM products anymore" will be a good start for Saab.
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I'm old school. To me a car loan is 48 or 60 months. I understand that about a third of all car loans are 72+ months now (at least before the credit crunch). Scary.
02/03/09
It's generally an indication that they have no idea what makes Apple successful, and fail to realize that what works in the Short Attention Span Theater that is consumer electronics doesn't necessarily translate to other industries.
02/03/09
02/03/09
Things like market research, business models, customer needs and spending big money on materials and design are all considered unnecessary, despite the fact that they're what's required to be The Apple of anything.
I'd rather just hear leaders say "We're going to get it right" and go from there.
02/03/09
:Gearhead looks around at the sea of cubes surrounding him thinking "Which one is Mad Science?":
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It wasn't all that long ago that apple had nothing.
I say give them a chance. I don't think they will truly be independent from GM for a long time yet, but I would be surprised if they didn't at least get some greater level of autonomy when it comes to product development.
I like the sketches of the new 9-5 that we have been teased with a couple of times here on Jalopnik, and I can only hope that they translate well into production.
02/03/09
Amazing how things change.
02/03/09
Seriously!
I was one of those people that wouldn't touch the Apple table, and now, ten years later, I swear by my new iMac.
Let's just hope that Saab does the same.
02/03/09
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