My grandmother had a Saab two sxtroke when I was a kid, I mean a little larva, and I still remember the ring ding sound of the engine. Much later I had a Suzuki GT550 two stroke triple, which was a nice bike. It had metered oil injection, so it didn't smoke much and didn't use much oil. But, after city driving for a week or so, if I took it onto the freeway, it laid down an impressive smokescreen at full throttle on the onramp. People probably thought it was about to blow up.
I love 2 strokes. I have a Cagiva Mito 125, which is an awesome little bike. When you hit the very narrow powerband on that thing it takes off like you wouldn't believe. It's got a 7 speed gearbox and tops out at around 100mph.
@lostarchitect: Here's my second bike ever, the Suzuki RG500. It had a square-four design, with two crankshafts. In 1985 it made 95HP with 500cc. It blew up every 5000km but there'll never be another bike I'll love as much.
Here's my second bike, the 1985 Suzuki RG500. It had a square four-cylinder (two crankshafts!) and made 95HP. No bike has ever come close to being as much fun for me.
@lostarchitect: heartclick for you who knows to appreciate the little Cagivas. I do own a Cagiva Elefantre 30.0 (was build by Agrale in Brazil) a 200 cc bike.
@Number_Six: That's an AMAZING bike! My girlfriend's father has a Yamaha RZ500 which is also a monster of a machine, if only it wasn't in pieces for the last several years. sigh. If you're ever in southern california, check out Moto Carrera's annual 2-T bike meet! My cagiva won an award there a few years back. Wish I still lived out there.
My uncle had one of these (2 Stoke SAAB) in his younger days. Apparently he enjoyed betting muscle car owners that his car would beat there's any day...even in Reverse...after some taunting he would sucker them into a race in reverse. After the challenge was accepted he would then bump start the car in reverse, causing to make the engine run backwards. Imagine a GTO drivers surprise when the little SAAB suddenly had four gears going the wrong way!
@Armand:
Only about half of Saab strokers had an oil pump, the others sucked premixed oil and gas right through the carb into the bottom end. No worries spinning either direction. I have done the four reverse gears trick myself.
@MattScheidt: There were several years that used premix, that's why they had to have the freewheeler clutch. If you let completely off the gas and drag the engine, the engine revs faster than the fuel-oil mix goes in, and the bearing journals starve. The freewheeler allows the engine to drop to idle and not get oil starved.
Correction: the 3-cylinder was still available into the 1968 model year, but very few were sold. 1967 was the first year of the V4, and almost nobody (see below) wanted a two-stroker after that.
I helped my father convert '65-68 3-cylinder models into V4s back in the late 60s and early 70s. He probably converted about 40 or 50 cars. He was a mechanical engineer who bought parts directly from Saab, so he did the conversions very accurately. Driving the cars, you could never tell they hadn't been born with four cylinders.
One day in the early 80s, we were out working on a 99 when we heard a 3-cylinder Saab turn the corner and come up the street. We both dropped our tools and walked out to the curb, and a 1968 Saab 96 (big windshield, sheet-metal grille) with V4 emblems pulled up and stopped. An older gentleman got out and said, "Well, you must be the Saab guys I heard about down here."
We both asked, almost in stereo, "What the hell did you do to that car?"
The old guy replied, "I bought this one new off the showroom floor, but I never did like the V4, so I converted it back to a 3-cylinder."
@toyotadiesel: Don't last very long? So what? My toyota with the 22RE will probably never die, but I have trouble staying awake while I drive it. My 1959 Saab 93 (with Monte Carlo engine, of course) is a fucking blast. Every trip an adventure, every turn I think about how Eric Carlson would be going triple my speed through this so keep that foot down you coward. And who cares if the motor doesn't last past 100K or even 20k? My personal record is to have the hood off and the motor on the floor in ten minutes. Without an engine hoist. And that's fun, too.
@toyotadiesel: @jrhmobile: With a freewheel to prevent oil starvation, which is what allows him to do such ridiculous downshifts without overrevving. Not that there are any valves to drop, but conrods and pins do have their limit.
@TAInvestor: From the late 1930s to the 1970s, the standard tranny in most American cars (where auto wasn't standard) was a column shift "3-on-the-tree". Great fun as these cars aged and the linkage got loose and sloppy. Am I really in gear or not? And just where the hell is reverse anyway? Crrruuunch!
A fair number of European cars (like this Saab) had them too, but often with four speeds. Some Italian cars like Alfas and Lancias even had five-speed columns - yikes.
@Number_Six: At 16, I took a job driving a flat-front GMC delivery van with 3 on the tree that was as old as me. Not conducive to speed shifting but very cool to be the only kid on the block who knew how to drive one.
@Alfisted: I worked for a Chrysler dealership that had a shorty 318 manual van with 3 in the tree. That thing could lay one-wheel peels like nothing else on earth.
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Edited by MrHowser: Now on XBL as NoReturnPolicy at 09/19/09 4:54 PM
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@jrhmobile: Seems almost like the gear lever is a pre-selector. Move the lever to the desired gear, THEN briefly push in the clutch to mechanically change the gear. Not all that uncommon back in the day, especially in quirky cars like Saabs.
@skitter: I had a 67 Monte Carlo, and I used to leave the freewheeling engaged (you could turn freewheeling off by a little pull-handle on the firewall). You didn't have to use free-wheeling, because it had oil-injection, but it was such fun.
I wish I knew how the freewheeling mechanism works inside a 96 transmission. I was always afraid of breaking it. There's this trick where you can make a fast, tight right-angle turn on a dirt road in a 96 using the free-wheeling. Charge into the turn too fast in second gear. A third of the way through the turn, when you've got the steering wheel turned the way you want but the car is understeering and going in a straight line anyway, floor it. When the engine speed passes the speed of the wheels then bam! suddenly the wheels are powered, understeer no more, and they yank you off at a right angle. It's that bam! that used to worry me.
@wkiernan: It seems that they were using a one way roller clutch. 6 rollers on earlier models, later changed to 10.
It's pretty simple: in this case, when the inner shaft turns counterclockwise, the friction from the outer shaft on the four rollers drags them back along the inner shaft, so that they wedge in place and the outer shaft turns with the inner shaft.
When the inner shaft turns clockwise, the friction from the outer shaft pushes the rollers against a spring, but clearance increases, so minimal force is transmitted from the inner shaft to the outer shaft.
The bam! you experienced was the rollers wedging into place, as well as the rest of the drivetrain taking up slack. Per your experience, a well built roller clutch should be fairly hard to break.
This is a great looking car. As a current Saab owner, I look forward to the new direction things are taking with Koenigborkborkborksegg's control.
I see 'night panel' is there, I wonder if they're still using the awesome Trionic engine management system?
The engineerd Press Release Summarizer (ePRS patent on file) CRAY-like supercomputer got it's feelings hurt by the engineerd Fair Market Value (eFMV patent pending) WOPR-like computer. Some drama ensued, and the ePRS is back online. Here's what it had to say:
Saab is a company conceived by dragons, born from jets, and then it entered the system and was a foster child of GM and now is, hopefully, being adopted by Koenigsegg. The adoption process is still continuing, but the influences of "the system" and it's new-found Swedish family are showing on the all-new 2010 9-5.
First, signalling it's past, it is not quirky. In fact, while maintaining a European flair, it is pretty average looking. No matter how hard it may be trying, the scars of an abusive foster family are still there.
Second, in a nod to its new family a series of engines are available, including some with decent power figures:
*2.0L turbo I4 diesel engine making 160 hp.
*2.0L turbo I4 gas engine making 220 hp.
*2.8L turbo V6 gas engine making 300 hp.
*1.6L turbo I4 gas engine making 180 hp.
*2.0L BioPower E85 engine.
In a nod to it's birth parents, all engines have turbines. Other aircraft-inspired appointments include a HUD, altimeter, and a host of electronic nannies and screens -- just like a real jet...sort of.
Nothing here saying they'll actually sell this in the U.S.
If they do, I'll take mine with XWD, 2-liter turbo, and 6-spd manual. Unfortunately, I don't think the $10K rebates we're used to seeing from Saab will be in the offing.
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@lostarchitect:
Here's my second bike, the 1985 Suzuki RG500. It had a square four-cylinder (two crankshafts!) and made 95HP. No bike has ever come close to being as much fun for me.
09/19/09
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09/19/09
[www.jaylenosgarage.com]
09/19/09
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09/19/09
Of course this just could be a tall tail.
09/19/09
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09/19/09
Only about half of Saab strokers had an oil pump, the others sucked premixed oil and gas right through the carb into the bottom end. No worries spinning either direction. I have done the four reverse gears trick myself.
09/19/09
09/19/09
09/19/09
I helped my father convert '65-68 3-cylinder models into V4s back in the late 60s and early 70s. He probably converted about 40 or 50 cars. He was a mechanical engineer who bought parts directly from Saab, so he did the conversions very accurately. Driving the cars, you could never tell they hadn't been born with four cylinders.
One day in the early 80s, we were out working on a 99 when we heard a 3-cylinder Saab turn the corner and come up the street. We both dropped our tools and walked out to the curb, and a 1968 Saab 96 (big windshield, sheet-metal grille) with V4 emblems pulled up and stopped. An older gentleman got out and said, "Well, you must be the Saab guys I heard about down here."
We both asked, almost in stereo, "What the hell did you do to that car?"
The old guy replied, "I bought this one new off the showroom floor, but I never did like the V4, so I converted it back to a 3-cylinder."
09/19/09
One certainly has to move the radiator to the front of the car instead of behind the engine...
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Hey, you get a heart-click. Anybody piloting a 93 for grocery runs is OK by me.
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*catch*
*watches video*
*both fall over*
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A fair number of European cars (like this Saab) had them too, but often with four speeds. Some Italian cars like Alfas and Lancias even had five-speed columns - yikes.
09/19/09
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I wish I knew how the freewheeling mechanism works inside a 96 transmission. I was always afraid of breaking it. There's this trick where you can make a fast, tight right-angle turn on a dirt road in a 96 using the free-wheeling. Charge into the turn too fast in second gear. A third of the way through the turn, when you've got the steering wheel turned the way you want but the car is understeering and going in a straight line anyway, floor it. When the engine speed passes the speed of the wheels then bam! suddenly the wheels are powered, understeer no more, and they yank you off at a right angle. It's that bam! that used to worry me.
09/19/09
@wkiernan: It seems that they were using a one way roller clutch. 6 rollers on earlier models, later changed to 10.
It's pretty simple: in this case, when the inner shaft turns counterclockwise, the friction from the outer shaft on the four rollers drags them back along the inner shaft, so that they wedge in place and the outer shaft turns with the inner shaft.
When the inner shaft turns clockwise, the friction from the outer shaft pushes the rollers against a spring, but clearance increases, so minimal force is transmitted from the inner shaft to the outer shaft.
The bam! you experienced was the rollers wedging into place, as well as the rest of the drivetrain taking up slack. Per your experience, a well built roller clutch should be fairly hard to break.
09/19/09
09/19/09
08/28/09
Good luck Saab, that is a cool looking car that has a very clean, simple, but sleek design, like an iPod.
08/27/09
08/27/09
I see 'night panel' is there, I wonder if they're still using the awesome Trionic engine management system?
I can't wait for the SportCombi version.
08/27/09
Saab is a company conceived by dragons, born from jets, and then it entered the system and was a foster child of GM and now is, hopefully, being adopted by Koenigsegg. The adoption process is still continuing, but the influences of "the system" and it's new-found Swedish family are showing on the all-new 2010 9-5.
First, signalling it's past, it is not quirky. In fact, while maintaining a European flair, it is pretty average looking. No matter how hard it may be trying, the scars of an abusive foster family are still there.
Second, in a nod to its new family a series of engines are available, including some with decent power figures:
*2.0L turbo I4 diesel engine making 160 hp.
*2.0L turbo I4 gas engine making 220 hp.
*2.8L turbo V6 gas engine making 300 hp.
*1.6L turbo I4 gas engine making 180 hp.
*2.0L BioPower E85 engine.
In a nod to it's birth parents, all engines have turbines. Other aircraft-inspired appointments include a HUD, altimeter, and a host of electronic nannies and screens -- just like a real jet...sort of.
08/27/09
If they do, I'll take mine with XWD, 2-liter turbo, and 6-spd manual. Unfortunately, I don't think the $10K rebates we're used to seeing from Saab will be in the offing.
08/27/09