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Detroit, 8:28 AM
Tue Dec 1
28 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Ronn Motors Scorpion Hydrogen Internal Combustion Supercar Debuts At SEMA

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of Elhigh Elhigh
    11/06/08

    In reply to Ronn Motors Scorpion Hydrogen Internal Combustion Supercar Debuts At SEMA
    I have a theory: HHO desperately wants to be H2O again, so it takes next to nothing to ignite the HHO. Once it's going, the HHO can touch off a ridiculously lean fuel-air mix, plus of course that water from igniting the HHO isn't water - it's steam. I think it may be tricking the engine sensors into leaning the mix all by itself; tuners fiddling with the programming does the rest.


    And I still say balderdash.

     Reply
    Elhigh was starred Elhigh was unstarred
    Image of smalleyxb122 smalleyxb122
    11/06/08

    In reply to Ronn Motors Scorpion Hydrogen Internal Combustion Supercar Debuts At SEMA
    It's all very simple, really.


    We'll burn Hydrogen to power an internal combustion engine which will convert the heat output from the exothermic reaction into mechanical motion at an efficiency of (optimistically) 30%.


    Of that 30% of the chemical energy of the hydrogen gas, we will use a portion of it (say 2% or so) to turn an alternator.


    We'll rectify and regulate the alternator output for a net output of 60% of the mechanical energy used to spin it.


    We'll take that alternator energy and use it to split the waste water (from the hydrogen combustion) back into hydrogen and water at 27,778% efficiency to result in the same amount of initial input gas.


    I don't see the problem.

     Reply
    smalleyxb122 was starred smalleyxb122 was unstarred
    Image of Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face.
    11/06/08

    @smalleyxb122: What you said.
     Reply
    Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was starred Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was unstarred
    Image of SeanKHotay SeanKHotay
    11/06/08

    In reply to Ronn Motors Scorpion Hydrogen Internal Combustion Supercar Debuts At SEMA
    I'm not understanding the concept completely...


    Where is the water split? On board the car -or- at some not-car site? They got a water bottle on board or a high pressure, high-energy resistant (outwards and inwards) Hydrogen bottle on board.


    They need a triangle or two in the window, regardless.


    For sure is the following:
    1) Splitting of two H2O into H2* and O2 has efficiency losses (i.e., more input energy v. output)
    B) Adding a speedily-combustible fluid (H2*, alchohol) does result in performance advantages.


    As with most marketing hype, I suspects this PR tells the good, forgets to mention the bad.


    E.G. Company PR: "The Company grossed $1.4B in sales this quarter, or $0.67 per share.";
    omitted: "The Company had expeditures of $1.45B this quarter."


    My SBBWAG**: As Mike the Dog suggested, I suspect they are referring to the H2*-injection increasing efficiency, forgets to add the net energy from hydrolysis from the efficiency equation.


    * Not the Hummer; the Hydrogen subscript-2 molecule.
    ** SBBWAG = Science-Based But Wild Ass Guess

     Reply
    SeanKHotay was starred SeanKHotay was unstarred
    Image of Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face.
    11/06/08

    @SeanKHotay: As I understand it, the water is cracked onboard, and the resulting H2 and O are immediately mixed to make this "Brown's Gas", which is added to the incoming fuel/air mixture in a vain attempt to compensate for the energy it took to create it.
     Reply
    Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was starred Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was unstarred
    Image of Novaload Novaload
    11/06/08

    In reply to Ronn Motors Scorpion Hydrogen Internal Combustion Supercar Debuts At SEMA
    Maybe you can still turn a dollar on it.

    Use the electrolysis to remove back hair while driving.
     Reply
    Novaload was starred Novaload was unstarred
    Image of UDMan UDMan
    11/05/08

    In reply to Ronn Motors Scorpion Hydrogen Internal Combustion Supercar Debuts At SEMA
    Oh look, another company creating vaporware, and this time they're from Austin Texas. Color me unimpressed, since this thing doesn't have a chance in hell of being produced. All I had to do is read the following:


    AUSTIN, TX-(Marketwire) - Ronn Motor Company, Inc. (RMC) (PINKSHEETS: RNNM).... The Pinksheets, as in penny stocks, as in Junk rating, a company formed only to fleece as many possible investors before disappearing into the Texas sunset, like so many other Texas based companies before.


    And I though SEMA was going to be a joke this year....

     Reply
    UDMan was starred UDMan was unstarred
    Image of Novaload Novaload
    11/05/08

    In reply to Ronn Motors Scorpion Hydrogen Internal Combustion Supercar Debuts At SEMA
    H is for Huckster.
     Reply
    Novaload was starred Novaload was unstarred
    Image of Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face.
    11/05/08

    In reply to Ronn Motors Scorpion Hydrogen Internal Combustion Supercar Debuts At SEMA
    For those of you who can read it without getting a headache, here's a link to some reports on the properties of "Brown's Gas" (2H2O2, HHO, etc.), and its drawbacks as a welding gas and motor fuel. [www.phact.org] It's very technical, but the gist of it is that the people promoting this aren't telling you a lot of the shortcomings of this fuel.
     Reply
    Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was starred Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was unstarred
    Image of stopcrazypp stopcrazypp
    11/05/08

    @Mike the Dog:
    Don't let those HHO, "Brown's Gas" websites fool you. The "Brown's gas" or "HHO" torch that they show is no different than a regular oxyhydrogen (meaning a stoichiometric mixture of H2 & O2, ie 2 H2 for each O2) torch which uses these two simple reactions in succession:
    electrolysis: 2 H2O → 2 H2 + O2
    combustion: 2 H2 + O2 → 2 H2O
    The perfect 2:1 ratio makes it able to burn at max temperature, but there is no "HHO" involved in it.


    In fact Brown's invention, where the term "Brown's Gas" comes from, are actually just these kind of torches.


    There is no such thing as "HHO" (H-H-O molecular structure as the scammers like to show it).


    [en.wikipedia.org]

     Reply
    stopcrazypp was starred stopcrazypp was unstarred
    Image of Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face.
    11/06/08

    @stopcrazypp: @greimel: The way I understand it, "Brown's Gas" isn't a gas, but a mixture of 2 gases. 2 parts hydrogen and 1 part oxygen, usually mixed together immediately after being cracked (by electrolysis) from distilled water. If the splitting of the water into Brown's Gas required little or no power this setup could save you fuel. Unfortunately, it requires a lot of power. More power in fact than is contained in the resulting gases. As so many others have pointed out this equals a net loss, in accordance with the strictly-enforced laws of thermodynamics.
     Reply
    Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was starred Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was unstarred
    Image of poxpopulus poxpopulus
    11/05/08

    In reply to Ronn Motors Scorpion Hydrogen Internal Combustion Supercar Debuts At SEMA
    Cynics.
     Reply
    poxpopulus was starred poxpopulus was unstarred
    Image of Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face.
    11/05/08

    @poxpopulus: Yup.
     Reply
    Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was starred Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was unstarred
    Image of RoninianHoon RoninianHoon
    11/05/08

    In reply to Ronn Motors Scorpion Hydrogen Internal Combustion Supercar Debuts At SEMA
     Reply
    RoninianHoon was starred RoninianHoon was unstarred
    Image of RoninianHoon RoninianHoon
    11/05/08

    In reply to Ronn Motors Scorpion Hydrogen Internal Combustion Supercar Debuts At SEMA
    [hytechapps.com]
     Reply
    RoninianHoon was starred RoninianHoon was unstarred
    Image of Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face.
    11/05/08

    In reply to Ronn Motors Scorpion Hydrogen Internal Combustion Supercar Debuts At SEMA
    I finally watched the film. At about 1:40 the huckster casually mentions the battery box sized unit up front that "...similar to electrolysis, fractures the water into HH and oxygen..." As near as I can tell "HH" is a purely fictional "hyper-hydrogen" molecule (allegedly comprised of two hydrogen atoms fused into a molecule, but wouldn't that be H2?), mostly used for separating suckers from their money. It may also have something to do with this system. [hydrogen-hybrid.com] At any rate I remain skeptical.
     Reply
    Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was starred Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was unstarred
    Image of BЯдΖǐL-ЯЄРΘЯΤЄЯ BЯдΖǐL-ЯЄРΘЯΤЄЯ
    11/05/08

    In reply to Ronn Motors Scorpion Hydrogen Internal Combustion Supercar Debuts At SEMA
    You need the refrigerated seats when the car explodes, because this uhh, oh can happen.
     Reply
    BЯдΖǐL-ЯЄРΘЯΤЄЯ was starred BЯдΖǐL-ЯЄРΘЯΤЄЯ was unstarred
    Image of Danimal Danimal
    11/05/08

    In reply to Ronn Motors Scorpion Hydrogen Internal Combustion Supercar Debuts At SEMA
    Those brakes look soooo tiny.
     Reply
    Danimal was starred Danimal was unstarred
    Image of Novaload Novaload
    11/05/08

    @Fourstring85: Don't worry, it won't be rolling that fast.
     Reply
    Novaload was starred Novaload was unstarred
    Image of Boosted Lego Wagon Boosted Lego Wagon
    11/05/08

    In reply to Ronn Motors Scorpion Hydrogen Internal Combustion Supercar Debuts At SEMA
    Fails to rock me like a hurricane.
     Reply
    Boosted Lego Wagon was starred Boosted Lego Wagon was unstarred
    Image of Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face.
    11/05/08

    In reply to Ronn Motors Scorpion Hydrogen Internal Combustion Supercar Debuts At SEMA
    The press release is pretty thin on technical details, but does refer to a "gasoline-hydrogen hybrid". I am intrigued, yet skeptical.
     Reply
    Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was starred Mike the Dog is sitting by the door with a pair of cow slippers, and a very sad face. was unstarred
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