Content of marketers talking about other marketers is not interesting. Marketers who use commenting on a blog, instead of talking to editors about their issues, know better, and deserve to be called on it if/when they do it. The usefulness of content and its value are determined by those who use/don't use it. Not by social engineering marketers.
Jalopnik content is useful and entertaining to me.
I've never found Facebook or Twitter to be useful or entertaining. Ever. More like highschool gossip. Frankly, I'm surprised anyone at Ford is spending actual money on 'social media'/circle jerks. I guess they have extra money they don't really need.
@DoctorNine: Exactly my point -- well, except I do view Facebook and Twitter to be useful as tools. I just don't think they're a snake oil that'll solve all of PRs problems. The best use for Twitter would be to have a couple of kids fresh out of college, under Monty's direction, answering Twitter users get their questions about Ford products and letting them know useful news about Ford. Not for promoting working on an issue that the general Twitter community didn't really have any knowledge about.
That smacks of Scott Monty promoting Scott Monty, not Scott Monty promoting Ford.
hmmm... I dunno. I have no stake in this - not a PR person or a social media guru/expert/twit. Just a guy who likes cars and the Internet. The bottom line of this whole thing is I never would have heard of the Rangerstation issue if I didn't follow Scott and I, as a consumer, would not have known that it ever even happened. The result of me knowing is that I now have a favorable of impression of how Ford handled this. Most people who would have gotten this information through other channels would have probably been looking for it - the value of Twitter (imo) is that you follow people with similar and possibly divergent interests and things emerge to them, they hit your radar - some you like, some you don't care. The tweet itself is a minimal investment - 140 characters. You decide if you want to know more. As I said a little further up, the end result is I found something favorable out about Ford that I otherwise would not have. It has left me thinking a bit less of Jalopnik. The author of this post sounds a little like a whiney guy who wants to say "I did more "real" work then he did and he is getting the credit. That is because he is self-promoting and I am not - even though I was in the trenches and he wasn't." I dunno - I find some of Scott's tweets interesting and I do feel closer to Ford because he i is out there.
A final thought: more than a few of the comments remind me of the mob mentality that these blogs/comments can induce. "Person X is a douchebag" followed by a bunch of "Yeah, that's right" comments. Easy to castigate someone when you don't know them. I don't know the guy, but would really judicious before saying something like this in a post that you (in a very non-self-promoting moment, btw) point out reaches 1.7 - 2.5 Million people.
@James Todd: Thats exactly the point. You never would have heard of this issue without Monty twittering about it.
But that's a far cry from saying it wouldn't have been dealt with in the very same manner. Except more than likely, it probably would have been done without the self-centered promotion of Monty.
[QUOTE]What we don't remember is what sites like FastCompany.com are now claiming - that some guy at Ford named Scott Monty swooped in to save the day.[/QUOTE] He did save the day, and saved the site owner from being dragged through the court system for selling counterfeit products. This guy could have lost everything he owned over his misunderstanding of copyright laws....Thanks to scott, he got to keep his site and still get's to continue on with a normal life, instead of making payments to the ford motor company lawyers.
@insanemustangs: It actually sounded to me like the chief legal counsel at Ford did that. Where are the glowing reports about him in "Barrister Monthly?"
I have to tell you that this article is kind of disappointing. I remember the incident to a T and i too was one of the first to contact Scott monty about this issue as it was unfolding. One of two things could have happened that day, 1st) the website owner was selling none authorized ford product, and Ford's lawyers were going to sue the website owner, whom didn't have the money for a legal fight. 2nd) Contact Scott Monty and see if there was anything he could do to look into why the site was reportedly going to be shutdown. Scott didn't have to do this at all, because lawyers were already involved. Believe it or not, Scott contacted his boss and asked if he could try to handle the situation, and hopefully get the lawyers to back off. Which he was able to do. Like it or not, Scott Monty went above and beyond what he had to do to help the website owner, and to help our hobby.
Like him or hate him, what did he do wrong. The post had traveled so fast that day, he couldn't keep up it. Scott actually took the time to post replies on site's like jalopnik, to try and help get the rumormill under control, and if you look i even posted in that thread, to help let people know that scott was working on it.
I was so impressed with scott, i even wrote his boss and complimented on how scott and ford handled the situation that was ballooning out of control.
To say that he isn't doing his job and that he is an overpaid twit, is kind of sad. If you would actually take the time and speak to him, you would see that he actually has our hobby at heart. He has honestly been one of the only people i have met from ford that agree's that our hobby should be allowed to flurish, and not be shutdown because of using names like and articles. So needless to say, i am a little disappointed with jalopnik, for not taking the time to get to know this man.
If you want to ban me from your site as well, please do so. But this site has always seemed to be upstanding and willing to take the good with the bad, and sadly we were all lead astray by the site that said they were being shutdown because they had ford in their website's name, never mentioning that the entire legal issue was over counterfeit ford products.
@insanemustangs: If Scott had been actually trying to keep the rumormill under control, he wouldn't have tweeted about it in the first place. He would have just taken care of the problem -- then had RangerStation act as a third-party validator for him. That's what other people in PR do. Monty, on the other hand, took care of it, then made it clear how he, personally avoided a disaster into the echo chamber. That smacks of self-promotion, not of promoting Ford. That's the rub we have with it. If he wants to promote himself, that's fine -- but make sure Ford knows that's what they're paying him to do.
Ray, you neglect to mention that I was *your* managing editor before I moved to Fast Company. Wish I could say that you never posted PR hype on Jalopnik, but unfortunately this site is all too often a "masturbatory echo-chamber" itself. Fewer puff previews and reviews now than before, but you're hardly in a position to throw stones.
@Noah Robischon: None of us should cast stones. Ford has finally given us someone we can talk too and communicate with. In the past, we had to raise hell all over the internet in hopes that ford may some how run across our concerns. But now, we have scott monty to talk too. We may not like his answers, and he doesn't just talk on one person's site, he is out there for everyone.
@Noah Robischon: Noah, you're absolutely right, I did neglect to mention that. Post has been updated to relay that information as well as to make clear our issue isn't with FastCompany, or even Allyson Kapin. It's with the audience Monty's reaching.
And yes, we are a masturbatory echo-chamber -- we're a site obsessed with the cult of cars and we're honest about that.
Also, are you saying we've had fewer puff previews and reviews now since you're no longer managing editor? I don't think you are, but it kinda reads that way. ;-)
Twitter has never made too much sense to be. It seems to be a way to broadcast very short messages. This means it is hard to convey more than the very simplest of messages. No room for discussion or nuance. By being a broadcast, it will inevitably go to people who are late to the conversation or who, at least superficially, have little interest in the subject. It seems to be structured to create frustration and wasted effort.
I don't know or particularly care about this Scott fella. I would appreciate companies running their propaganda through official outlets. I don't mind that they do it. But using straw men, astroturf and sock puppets to do it shouldn't be tolerated. It might be hard to ferret them out, but it should be punished, because it lowers the quality and honesty of your unaffiliated commenter's efforts - which is the meat of this site.
Maybe the formulation you're looking for goes a bit like this:
That twat twits me all day long. But he doesn't know diddly. That makes the rest of us twitter, and wonder what's become of Nibbles.
@Van Sarockin: the only remotely useful thing i have seen on twitter is the los angeles county fire departments use of it. letting us all know post by post when we are going to burn in the fires of luxury
Interesting read, this thread. I'm a friend of Scott Monty's and, I suppose, one of those social media twits or "experts" (though I've never called myself one) you speak of. And before you think I'm going to slow jack Monty, bear with me and keep reading ...
Scott Monty was hired by Ford to direct its social media efforts, a supplement to the PR efforts and, in essence, and extension of the PR team online. Keep in mind, Ford has a huge PR team and several agency partners, so if you have a long-standing contact with the company, they may not know Scott yet. (Though if they don't, I'd worry about how in the loop they are.)
Yeah, you can criticize how the company handles things and call people names all you want, but Scott knows his stuff in the social media space and is trying to help Ford connect with people here, on Facebook, Twitter, etc. He's not always going to be perfect or do it the way everyone thinks it ought to be done, but if you want a question answered at Ford, he's a good place to start.
Now let me tell you something from an observational stand point that you Monty-haters might agree with. I will say that ever since he took over the social media reigns at Ford, he's changed a bit and is sometimes a tad over-zealous with his Ford pimping. Put he's an honest guy who has a great deal of pride and enthusiasm for what he's doing. I've made fun of him for mentioning the Ford Flex every time I talk to him. But I know when I want to find something out about Ford, I have someone to reach out to. He even made sure when my wife was shopping for a new SUV/Van type vehicle to haul my kids in, that we at least considered a Flex. He had the local dealer set us up and treat us nice. We like it, but it ultimately wasn't our choice and Scott was gracious about it. We appreciated his effort on our behalf, though.
Some others above have mentioned his answering question-after-question on Twitter. Twitter (like it or not) is just one channel Ford and Scott are using to have conversations with customers about their products. If you're not on Twitter, what do you care? Twitter's audience has grown 900% in the last year. It's the fastest growing social network on the Internet (yes, faster than Facebook). It may not be a place you want to hang out, but why bash those who do? There are a few Jalopnik readers there, I'm sure.
Bottom line, Ford is trying 1,000 different things to re-establish itself as the U.S. auto industry leader. From design to sales to safety to engineering ... and yes, to marketing. Which in this day and age means reaching consumers in conversations on the web. That's what Scott Monty is in charge of.
Attack his methods if they don't sit well with you. That's fair. But I would challenge you to reach out to him first and find out what he's in it for. He's smart enough to know if you say, "Back the hell off. We don't want your new media stuff." He will.
Just two cents from the other side of the aisle. If Jalopnik spent this much space bashing a buddy of yours, you do the same.
@Jason Falls: Ford's PR team is much smaller now than what it once was. I know most of the people over there -- including people who Scott reports to. All of them have my contact information. All of whom should've realized by now that Monty's engaging in circle jerk-like self-promotional press.
"Since I can't comment on Jalopnik, I'll respond to your comment here. Since Jalopnik moderates comments, you don't really know how many comments he's allowed or denied. And you're assuming everyone on the Internet follows a niche site like Jalopnik. Most the people I interact with online don't know the site.
@damnelantra™: I've denied none. I've not yet decided on whether to accept four people -- mostly because they auditioned for a comment by using a one-line attack on me. While Scott would, I'm sure like to see that, it's not adding anything useful to the conversation. So they'll stay in limbo until they provide some more reasoned, intelligent comments. So bump that number up from 8-10 to 12-14.
Also, I'd like to point out our "quantified" numbers on Quantcast indicate we have 2.5 million people a month coming to Jalopnik:
While Scott's Twitter feed has about 11,473:
I can't help if he talks to people who don't read sites about cars, have no interest in cars and aren't in the market for buying them.
While I really don't like the abusive tone a lot of people have adopted here, especially since I've always had positive interactions with Scott, this article raises so many very interesting issues. As a side note, I find it ironic that people here are bashing social media on a social media platform... that's always entertaining.
I'm not going to get into the particulars of who said what to whom and when because I think there's a larger issue that's ultimately fueling this conflict. That's the issue of self promotion - vs - company promotion in PR. This is something that digital marketing and social media in business communication is changing whether anyone likes it or not.
In the interest of disclosure, I work in social media, and if anyone ever wrote something like this about me with the subsequent string of comments, I would probably feel devastated. I always try to be very conscious of the balance between self-promotion and company-promotion and I'm sure Scott does, too.
The reality is companies envy the kind of engagement, influence and community sites like Jalopnik have. That's what *they* want. Think about how unsuccessful this site would be if every post you wrote had a "Jalopnik Staffer" as a byline -- if your face wasn't out in the world and on CNBC as a commentator as an accompaniment to this content. Doesn't a little self promotion help facilitate the promotion of this site?
Anyway, I would love to dive deeper into the other issues raised about the "social media echo chamber" and echo chambers in general -- as well as the issue of why those of us in social media indulge a lot of interview requests from others in social media, but I have some thinking to do before I write a diatribe over here.
Again, as much as I hate the tone, this has actually made me think and I'm grateful for that.
@Shannon Paul: The difference being that as the editor-in-chief of Jalopnik.com, I'm always cognizant of the need to be the editor-in-chief of Jalopnik.com. As of yet, there haven't been any stories about what I've done for the site -- it's all been stories about what the site's done because I believe it's a crucial distinction. I've gone so far as to refuse to comment for stories about me because I've felt that it might do a disservice to the hard work the rest of the team here at Jalopnik does.
But maybe I've been wrong all these years in my belief that my job is to promote the site and not myself. Maybe what Scott's doing is the right way to go. I hope not.
@Ray Wert: Man, now I have to get into the other piece. I hate when things are this interesting on a Saturday!
Within this "social media echo chamber" as you describe it, there is actually a pretty powerful impetus for us to be helpful to others who are also trying to learn. Right now, there are so many people trying to learn that people like Scott get asked to speak on this all the time. On the social media side he has to think about people saying that he promotes Ford too much... on the Ford side, he has to worry about promoting himself and/or social media too much.
The emphasis in these cases is always about sharing and collaborating rather than exposing. I think this is mostly because there are no clear guides for how this kind of interaction is supposed to work, a lot of what is discussed is purely theoretical and when someone is actually employed to put these theories to work, there is a lot of interest in the person, his/her background and how they go about creating and implementing a social media strategy.
I hope I'm not being a pest -- it's just that this is touching on a lot of the things I've already been thinking about.
@Shannon Paul: Monty is paid by Ford. I don't see him running a Ford twitter account. I see him running a scottmonty one. I just looked for one and this is what I found:
Ray, sorry to hear about your bout of ignorance. As you seem to tweet and blog yourself, it is unfortunate you fail to use these tools for the greater good.
Scott, like many other SM experts, actually connect with real customers; addresses real individuals in real conversations; acknowledging OPENLY real successes and real failures; makes a real difference in the organization; learns from each conversation regardless of the medium.
What he, and true SM experts don't do are use their blog as a PA system while wearing earplugs, rant negatively about a topic they know nothing about; throw stone.
Best of luck with the short term spike in traffic, and long term loss of respect.
02/15/09
Jalopnik content is useful and entertaining to me.
I've never found Facebook or Twitter to be useful or entertaining. Ever. More like highschool gossip. Frankly, I'm surprised anyone at Ford is spending actual money on 'social media'/circle jerks. I guess they have extra money they don't really need.
It will be interesting to see how long they do.
02/15/09
That smacks of Scott Monty promoting Scott Monty, not Scott Monty promoting Ford.
02/15/09
A final thought: more than a few of the comments remind me of the mob mentality that these blogs/comments can induce. "Person X is a douchebag" followed by a bunch of "Yeah, that's right" comments. Easy to castigate someone when you don't know them. I don't know the guy, but would really judicious before saying something like this in a post that you (in a very non-self-promoting moment, btw) point out reaches 1.7 - 2.5 Million people.
02/15/09
But that's a far cry from saying it wouldn't have been dealt with in the very same manner. Except more than likely, it probably would have been done without the self-centered promotion of Monty.
02/15/09
02/14/09
02/15/09
02/14/09
02/14/09
Like him or hate him, what did he do wrong. The post had traveled so fast that day, he couldn't keep up it. Scott actually took the time to post replies on site's like jalopnik, to try and help get the rumormill under control, and if you look i even posted in that thread, to help let people know that scott was working on it.
I was so impressed with scott, i even wrote his boss and complimented on how scott and ford handled the situation that was ballooning out of control.
To say that he isn't doing his job and that he is an overpaid twit, is kind of sad. If you would actually take the time and speak to him, you would see that he actually has our hobby at heart. He has honestly been one of the only people i have met from ford that agree's that our hobby should be allowed to flurish, and not be shutdown because of using names like and articles. So needless to say, i am a little disappointed with jalopnik, for not taking the time to get to know this man.
If you want to ban me from your site as well, please do so. But this site has always seemed to be upstanding and willing to take the good with the bad, and sadly we were all lead astray by the site that said they were being shutdown because they had ford in their website's name, never mentioning that the entire legal issue was over counterfeit ford products.
Doug of Insanemustangs.com
02/15/09
02/14/09
02/14/09
02/15/09
And yes, we are a masturbatory echo-chamber -- we're a site obsessed with the cult of cars and we're honest about that.
Also, are you saying we've had fewer puff previews and reviews now since you're no longer managing editor? I don't think you are, but it kinda reads that way. ;-)
02/15/09
02/14/09
I don't know or particularly care about this Scott fella. I would appreciate companies running their propaganda through official outlets. I don't mind that they do it. But using straw men, astroturf and sock puppets to do it shouldn't be tolerated. It might be hard to ferret them out, but it should be punished, because it lowers the quality and honesty of your unaffiliated commenter's efforts - which is the meat of this site.
Maybe the formulation you're looking for goes a bit like this:
That twat twits me all day long. But he doesn't know diddly. That makes the rest of us twitter, and wonder what's become of Nibbles.
02/14/09
02/14/09
02/14/09
02/14/09
Scott Monty was hired by Ford to direct its social media efforts, a supplement to the PR efforts and, in essence, and extension of the PR team online. Keep in mind, Ford has a huge PR team and several agency partners, so if you have a long-standing contact with the company, they may not know Scott yet. (Though if they don't, I'd worry about how in the loop they are.)
Yeah, you can criticize how the company handles things and call people names all you want, but Scott knows his stuff in the social media space and is trying to help Ford connect with people here, on Facebook, Twitter, etc. He's not always going to be perfect or do it the way everyone thinks it ought to be done, but if you want a question answered at Ford, he's a good place to start.
Now let me tell you something from an observational stand point that you Monty-haters might agree with. I will say that ever since he took over the social media reigns at Ford, he's changed a bit and is sometimes a tad over-zealous with his Ford pimping. Put he's an honest guy who has a great deal of pride and enthusiasm for what he's doing. I've made fun of him for mentioning the Ford Flex every time I talk to him. But I know when I want to find something out about Ford, I have someone to reach out to. He even made sure when my wife was shopping for a new SUV/Van type vehicle to haul my kids in, that we at least considered a Flex. He had the local dealer set us up and treat us nice. We like it, but it ultimately wasn't our choice and Scott was gracious about it. We appreciated his effort on our behalf, though.
Some others above have mentioned his answering question-after-question on Twitter. Twitter (like it or not) is just one channel Ford and Scott are using to have conversations with customers about their products. If you're not on Twitter, what do you care? Twitter's audience has grown 900% in the last year. It's the fastest growing social network on the Internet (yes, faster than Facebook). It may not be a place you want to hang out, but why bash those who do? There are a few Jalopnik readers there, I'm sure.
Bottom line, Ford is trying 1,000 different things to re-establish itself as the U.S. auto industry leader. From design to sales to safety to engineering ... and yes, to marketing. Which in this day and age means reaching consumers in conversations on the web. That's what Scott Monty is in charge of.
Attack his methods if they don't sit well with you. That's fair. But I would challenge you to reach out to him first and find out what he's in it for. He's smart enough to know if you say, "Back the hell off. We don't want your new media stuff." He will.
Just two cents from the other side of the aisle. If Jalopnik spent this much space bashing a buddy of yours, you do the same.
02/14/09
02/14/09
02/14/09
02/14/09
"Since I can't comment on Jalopnik, I'll respond to your comment here. Since Jalopnik moderates comments, you don't really know how many comments he's allowed or denied. And you're assuming everyone on the Internet follows a niche site like Jalopnik. Most the people I interact with online don't know the site.
Scott Monty"
via my poor, little, innocent flickr account
02/14/09
Also, I'd like to point out our "quantified" numbers on Quantcast indicate we have 2.5 million people a month coming to Jalopnik:
While Scott's Twitter feed has about 11,473:
I can't help if he talks to people who don't read sites about cars, have no interest in cars and aren't in the market for buying them.
But Ford might have a problem with that.
02/14/09
I'm not going to get into the particulars of who said what to whom and when because I think there's a larger issue that's ultimately fueling this conflict. That's the issue of self promotion - vs - company promotion in PR. This is something that digital marketing and social media in business communication is changing whether anyone likes it or not.
In the interest of disclosure, I work in social media, and if anyone ever wrote something like this about me with the subsequent string of comments, I would probably feel devastated. I always try to be very conscious of the balance between self-promotion and company-promotion and I'm sure Scott does, too.
The reality is companies envy the kind of engagement, influence and community sites like Jalopnik have. That's what *they* want. Think about how unsuccessful this site would be if every post you wrote had a "Jalopnik Staffer" as a byline -- if your face wasn't out in the world and on CNBC as a commentator as an accompaniment to this content. Doesn't a little self promotion help facilitate the promotion of this site?
Anyway, I would love to dive deeper into the other issues raised about the "social media echo chamber" and echo chambers in general -- as well as the issue of why those of us in social media indulge a lot of interview requests from others in social media, but I have some thinking to do before I write a diatribe over here.
Again, as much as I hate the tone, this has actually made me think and I'm grateful for that.
02/14/09
But maybe I've been wrong all these years in my belief that my job is to promote the site and not myself. Maybe what Scott's doing is the right way to go. I hope not.
02/14/09
Within this "social media echo chamber" as you describe it, there is actually a pretty powerful impetus for us to be helpful to others who are also trying to learn. Right now, there are so many people trying to learn that people like Scott get asked to speak on this all the time. On the social media side he has to think about people saying that he promotes Ford too much... on the Ford side, he has to worry about promoting himself and/or social media too much.
The emphasis in these cases is always about sharing and collaborating rather than exposing. I think this is mostly because there are no clear guides for how this kind of interaction is supposed to work, a lot of what is discussed is purely theoretical and when someone is actually employed to put these theories to work, there is a lot of interest in the person, his/her background and how they go about creating and implementing a social media strategy.
I hope I'm not being a pest -- it's just that this is touching on a lot of the things I've already been thinking about.
02/14/09
02/14/09
02/14/09
Scott, like many other SM experts, actually connect with real customers; addresses real individuals in real conversations; acknowledging OPENLY real successes and real failures; makes a real difference in the organization; learns from each conversation regardless of the medium.
What he, and true SM experts don't do are use their blog as a PA system while wearing earplugs, rant negatively about a topic they know nothing about; throw stone.
Best of luck with the short term spike in traffic, and long term loss of respect.
02/14/09
02/14/09