Public Transportation

posts about #publictransportation more →
Cartoonist Peter Bagge Explains How, Why Amtrak Sucks
What Happens When Your Country Relies On Public Transportation
When In Seattle, Ride The S.L.U.T.
San Francisco Transit Wonks Shoot Selves in Foot
Sikorsky Turbo Train
More Articulate Than Dr. Killinger: Volvo Bus Chassis!
Transport in Los Angeles: It Exists!
Japanese Dual-Mode Mini Train Could Be Big in Japan
German MagLev Train Kills People
Public Transit Needs A "Turd Blossom"

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SigmundTheSeaMonster
07/06/09

In reply to Cartoonist Peter Bagge Explains How, Why Amtrak Sucks
One does not make money moving people. - Amtrak Exec ???

One does make money moving freight! - CSX Exec ???

I would love to see monorails to/from towns. But that isn't profitable...
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mechimike
07/05/09

In reply to Cartoonist Peter Bagge Explains How, Why Amtrak Sucks
I take offense, Miss Martin, on your highly inaccurate stereotyping of libertarians as nerds. I consider myself a "small 'l'" libertarian, and I like to think I'd be one of those Hilux-driving warlords in the great utopian future you describe!

Except I drive a Dodge.
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Novaload
07/04/09

In reply to Cartoonist Peter Bagge Explains How, Why Amtrak Sucks
As on old geezer sprung form two railroad grandfathers, trains always preferred freight to people--way more money. To this day, and throughout my life, Amtrak has become as inconvenient as possible (Yes, the train leaves at 4:30 a.m....) and routes have shrunk.

It was like a game of Clue to figure out where the train would be at what time and some stations are only "stop on demand"--oh, and in DC, they take off the fast engines and put on the slow ones for the Crescent (a.k.a. "Sidewinder" for its frequent derailments) and other south-bounders. But it's still cost competitive against driving and flying--like 80 bucks from Richmond VA to New Haven CT. I would gladly take a commuter train to my job--except there isn't one.

My European friends are always shocked that a country this size has so little rail service.
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bzr
07/04/09

In reply to Cartoonist Peter Bagge Explains How, Why Amtrak Sucks
Do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk, ice cream? Ice cream, Mandrake? Children's ice cream!...You know when fluoridation began?...1946. 1946, Mandrake. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual, and certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works. I first became aware of it, Mandrake, during the physical act of love...Yes, a profound sense of fatigue, a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I-I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence. I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women, er, women sense my power, and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women, Mandrake...but I do deny them my essence.
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.357
07/04/09

In reply to Cartoonist Peter Bagge Explains How, Why Amtrak Sucks
Nice write up Murilee. I quite enjoyed the Dr. Strangelove reference.
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Franzouse
07/05/09

@.357: Me too! Murilee's the best.
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Bailout
07/04/09

In reply to Cartoonist Peter Bagge Explains How, Why Amtrak Sucks
Lets suppose for a minute that the Gov't stops subsidizing air travel, or auto travel.

Who do you think pays for roads?

Who do you think who pays for war in the middle east to keep the oil coming?

But trains aren't in style. So THAT mode of transportation alone should stop receiving subsidies.
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smalleyxb122
07/04/09

@Bailout: The government pays for roads with dollars from motorists. The government pays for air travel with dollars from motorists. The government pays for trains with dollars from motorists.

One of these things is not like the other. One of these things makes sense.

Motorists pay for the roads on which they travel through on-road fuel taxes and tolls.

Air travel and railways actually cost the traveler less than the cost involved in operation.

The war is about ideology, not oil. Regardless of how ruthless the dictator is in any oil producing country, if we keep paying for the oil, they'll keep sending it over. Starting a war is counter productive, capitalistically.
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Mr. Moto
07/04/09

@smalleyxb122: Are you saying the federal highway system is fully funded by gas taxes? Or what are you saying? And other roads, state highways, county roads, city streets?? All paid by motorists?

A quick look at Wikipedia (admittedly, not the best source) indicates that the interstate highway system is not fully funded by gas taxes but relies on general government revenues as well.

You seem to be indicating that not only is it completely paid by motorists, but that motorists also fund rail and air?

Do you have a source for that information supporting your statements?

Just interested in knowing one way or another.
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scottcom36 has Weekday DT's, Weekend OD's
07/04/09

@Mr. Moto: Excluding the gas tax question, EVERYBODY uses our road network, even if they're in the small minority who only walk, bike or take the bus. Therefore, the taxes everyone pays go to support the roads, plus to support rail and air systems used by far fewer people.
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smalleyxb122
07/04/09

@Mr. Moto: It's difficult to get a precise answer to your question since most records don't break revenue and expenditures down sufficiently. From a records keeping perspective, not all of highway spending comes from taxes and tolls, but neither does all revenue from taxes and tolls go toward highway spending. (some of it is itemized as subsidies for public transit).

Roughly speaking, most years, the total revenue would be about equal to highway spending if you take Highway patrol out of the equation.

However, records wise, the revenue falls short, and is subsidized primarily by property taxes (presumably by those businesses and residences that benefit from the roadway)

The taxes from fuel are mostly reserved for transportation, and most of that goes toward roadways, but officially, some goes toward public transit.

Most statistical data supports the perception that fuel taxes equate to a near net-zero use tax.

Back to your citing Wikipedia: I have no real issues with what is stated there, but while it mentions generous public funding, (what I assume you are referring to), it ignores that the vast majority of those public funds are from fuel tax (which is mostly earmarked specifically for transportation spending).

So, I guess the answer is yes and no.
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smalleyxb122
07/04/09

@scottcom36 has Weekday DT's, Weekend OD's: Well stated. I almost had a very similar sentiment in my long winded response. Mine was poorly worded in comparison, so I'm glad that I removed it before submission.
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Murilee Martin
07/04/09

@Bailout: This isn't a blanket condemnation of government subsidies for transportation, or even rail transportation. It's a condemnation of subsidies for Amtrak.
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Tyson
07/04/09

@Murilee Martin: The problem, really, is that Amtrak is subsidized either too much, or not nearly enough. It either needs to be taken out back and shot, then replaced with something that works, or have enough money thrown at it to rebuild exclusive passenger train tracks and replace routes that were ripped out long ago. People don't use Amtrak, because its slow, but its slow because they have to share the rails with freight trains in most places. People don't use it because its expensive, but its expensive because its very low volume, as they don't have routes in places people want.
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Schm, enjoying his first desert winter. .
07/04/09

@Bailout: I wouldn't call using tax dollars for road maintenance subsides. A better example is the bridge to nowhere. It was a bridge that was only built to help a few people, and the was only possible do to government funding.

In my opinion, rail needs to be fast, efficent and most importantly, run by people who are NOT tied down by the the government looking over their shoulder. Because me, when the government gets involved in the world of business, things never turn out well.
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jdoubleh
07/05/09

@Bailout: Very well put. Speaking of high horses (more like armchairs), I suspect most here have never ridden an Amtrak train.
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Schm, enjoying his first desert winter. .
07/05/09

@jdoubleh is regruntled: I have, and it was uncomfortable. And slow. And it stopped at every goddamned hick town in Missouri.
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Boosted Lego Wagon
06/11/09

In reply to What Happens When Your Country Relies On Public Transportation
I don't own a car.
I use public transportation.
It's okay, I read until
I reach my destination.
Sometimes the paper,
Sometimes a book.
The amount of money I save,
This shit is off the hook
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Number_Six
06/11/09

In reply to What Happens When Your Country Relies On Public Transportation
But if it weren't for the Tube, The Jam wouldn't have written one of the best pop songs ever!

/Down at the Tube Station at Midnight
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scroggzilla raids again
06/11/09

@#6: +1 for the best song ever regarding mugging in public places.
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Schm, enjoying his first desert winter. .
06/11/09

In reply to What Happens When Your Country Relies On Public Transportation
I haz solutions.

There, all better.
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leavethegun-takethecannoli
06/11/09

In reply to What Happens When Your Country Relies On Public Transportation
Mild Threadjack
-why can't we have cool ads like Gizmodo's Cheez-It Trek yourself(it beats what we have). Why do we have to have sh*tty ads.

Were we bad or something?
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Jo Schmo
06/11/09

@leavethegun-takethecannoli: Do you read the comment section at all? ;)
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Unregular
06/11/09

In reply to What Happens When Your Country Relies On Public Transportation
i mean... do you guys read what you write?

London survives only BECAUSE of public transportation. those "effete train-taking commuters" don't drive into the city every day.

that's what makes it work. if they DIDN'T have public transportation - well i mean you see what happens.

i am having a hard time understanding Wes Siler's stance on this issue.
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leavethegun-takethecannoli
06/11/09

@Unregular: Read it again.
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Schm, enjoying his first desert winter. .
06/11/09

@Unregular: I think Wes just wants to brag about how fast he rode on a motorbike.

And that's why I like him.
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Wes Siler
06/11/09

@Unregular: outside the world of crazy cable news, we don't have to be "Pro Public Transportation!!!!1!!!" or "Anti Public Transportation (damn commies) rabble rabble rabble."

Public transport's great, when it works.
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Unregular
06/11/09

@leavethegun-takethecannoli:

"what happens when your country relies on public transportation"

you are actually able to function? unless there is a once-in-a-year strike? without it, this traffic is your every day reality?

yet train takers are effete sheep?

but... at the same time... we WANT more public transport?

yet still.... don't put all your eggs in one basket?

that's it?
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leavethegun-takethecannoli
06/11/09

@Unregular: Outside of our congested cities- public transport doesn't work so well. Plus we have to subsidize the hell out of it.
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Maymar
06/11/09

In reply to What Happens When Your Country Relies On Public Transportation
I stopped taking public transportation the moment the TTC went on strike last year. Something about being unable to get to my $10/hr job because they felt they weren't making enough at ~$26/hr didn't quite sit right with me. Well, that and waiting upwards of a half-hour for a bus during rush hour on a major route because each one that passed was full. Or when a driver would stop mid-route to grab a coffee, causing me to miss my transfer (or wait 5 minutes for no reason). Or waiting because dumbass high school kids won't move to the back of the bus (and when they do, I got back pack in my face). Or being packed in like sardines, trying to hang onto a pole and not fall in someone's lap. Or that one time when a bus driver called the cops on me because he claimed my transfer (which I got at the start of the trip) was expired and I refused to get off.

Oh yeah, and I just like driving.
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PatFromGundo
06/11/09

@My A Arm: So complicated. It only took one gang shooting in Watts to nudge me off the Metro and back onto the 405. Christ, I am a honkey.
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EndlessMike
06/11/09

@My A Arm: I like driving, too, unfortunately, there would be little driving in my commute since DC is a parking lot during rush hours. I use the Metro.
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PatFromGundo
06/11/09

@EndlessMike: And there's the critical distinction: "commuting" is not really the same thing as "driving," at least not in L.A., DC, etc.
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Unregular
06/11/09

@My A Arm: I like driving too. Which is why I take the T into the office.

also, i like to go out after work and have a few beverages. driving drunk is bad.
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Maymar
06/11/09

@Unregular: Heh, that incident where I was almost kicked off the bus? I had been drinking, and it was like 4AM, in February. Really encourages people to take public transit after a night of drinking, eh? I've resigned myself to not getting drunk.
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.357
06/11/09

@My A Arm: I haven't been on the TTC in 5 years. It isn't great.
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beercheck
06/11/09

@My A Arm: Quitter.
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petersterncan
06/12/09

@My A Arm: I like driving too... but not rush-hour driving.

For commuting, taking my bike is more fun... and it keeps me from getting fat.

I take the TTC once in a while. But I can usually get to where I'm going faster by cycling... unless it's in snow.

But to just say 'I'm never taking the TTC again because they went on strike' is ridiculous. Autoworkers went on strike for much higher wages in the past... are you gonna swear off buying cars?

Construction workers went on strike in the past... are you gonna swear off buying a house/condo?
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Maymar
06/12/09

@petersterncan: If a bunch of overpaid striking autoworkers or construction workers stranded me from my much lower paying job, I'd certainly think twice about buying their products. Again, the strike was just the last straw after a cold, slow, surly, inconvenient unpleasant experience, and I'm struggling to see a reason to put myself through it again.
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.357
06/12/09

@My A Arm: TTC=Garbage. At least that's my experience.
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Schm, enjoying his first desert winter. .
06/11/09

In reply to What Happens When Your Country Relies On Public Transportation
Looks like some interesting cars too. Either a new Merc E Class or a CLC, A Lithuanian-reg red Subaru, Porsche Boxter, something that looked like an older Lancia something, BMW M5. .

Also, is this on a bicycle or a motorbike of somekind? He makes liberal use of the bike lane, so that or he's just a rule breaker.
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Unregular
06/11/09

In reply to What Happens When Your Country Relies On Public Transportation
but... we ALREADY put all our eggs in one basket with our parasitic dependence on cars!

that's our basket of eggs!
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GasGuzzler
06/11/09

@Unregular: At least my car doesn't go on strike.
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mechimike
06/11/09

@Unregular: At least our basket of eggs can be modified to run on different fuels. And we aren't dependent on some Yahoo with barely a high school education making $40/hr to decide he can be bothered to show up to work in order for us to get around.
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Unregular
06/11/09

@GasGuzzler: you car doesn't, but the roads/traffic does.

construction, minor accidents, weather... and suddenly the roads are on strike.

the "tube" doesn't have such issues. and when they do, they are announced and predictable.
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mechimike
06/11/09

@Unregular: You've obviously never ridden the Washington, DC Metro. WMATA goes on "strike" all the time. I used to work with the authority. Its amazing people actually depend on it to get to work.
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Syrax
06/11/09

In reply to What Happens When Your Country Relies On Public Transportation
Every other car is a 3er. Or a Focus.
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Jo Schmo
06/11/09

@Ambiguously Unfunny Syrax: I noticed that too. I saw an unfamiliar Civic in there too.
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