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The 24 Hours Of LeMons N00b's Race Car Selection Guide
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wheels OF satan!
03/31/09

In reply to The 24 Hours Of LeMons N00b's Race Car Selection Guide
COP CARS! how about the crown vics and caprices?? comeON!!
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Murilee Martin
03/31/09

@wheels OF satan!: As I've said, big cars aren't such a great LeMons idea for first-time teams whose members mostly want to get as much racing time as possible, because it's so much easier to have contact with other cars in a big car... and contact means a black flag, which means you're going to the penalty box.

Other than that, the Crown Vics hold together pretty well. I've seen more problems with LeMons Caprices, but they are way faster when they're working properly.
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scrubnick
03/30/09

In reply to The 24 Hours Of LeMons N00b's Race Car Selection Guide
My actual entry: Nissan NX1600

My dream entry: Maserati Biturbo
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Murilee Martin
03/30/09

@scrubnick: Christine The Arc Angel (the one who welds the metal barnyard animals to the cars in the Penalty Box) drove a Biturbo in one of the early LeMons races. It actually ran most of the time and finished pretty high in the standings.

But why not dream about a Quattroporte? I've seen 'em priced in the $1000-1500 range, and you should be able to sell off a lot of parts to get the price down to LeMons territory.
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Surferjer
03/30/09

In reply to The 24 Hours Of LeMons N00b's Race Car Selection Guide
I have a Miata that was FREE. How? bought it for $900, "need clutch". Fine, but it came with a hardtop I sold for $1050 after cleaning it up, and the clutch was only $140 on eBay. Problem is no one will believe my story. I'm letting my girlfriend drive it this summer, then maybe next year if either my LeMons FX-16 or my LeMons Citation craps out this year,....

My point is they do exist. Too bad they are assumed to be cheaters.
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Murilee Martin
03/30/09

@Surferjer: The majority of Miata teams get zero penalty laps in the BS Inspection, because they've brought the paperwork to prove (or at least "prove") what they paid. We'd rather not see LeMons become the Miata-E30 Challenge, so we tend to look at those cars with a very skeptical eye during inspection; at the very least, we're going to sweat Miata teams way harder than just about anyone (other than Camaro teams who claim that badass small-block is a "stock 305" or a "tired 307"). It helps that Chief Perp Jay Lamm is a Miata owner and racer, and he knows what stuff costs... and once he decides he doesn't like the cut of your team's jib, you're screwed.

My suggestion for wannabe Miata LeMons teams: If you absolutely must run a Miata, at least do a kickass theme on it (see the Frankenmiata).
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lazlohollyfeld
03/30/09

In reply to The 24 Hours Of LeMons N00b's Race Car Selection Guide
Maybe i haven't quite grasped teh concept ... but how about late a 80s probe I, or early 90's probe II? I've laso always had a soft spot in my heart for eagle talons ...
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Maymar
03/30/09

@lazlohollyfeld: No, I think you've got it, the Probes are covert Mazdas - decent performers, I imagine reliability's ok, and they've got American depreciation. Plus, a car called Probe allows for all kinds of raunchy, medical, or sci-fi team themes.
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Murilee Martin
03/30/09

@lazlohollyfeld: We've seen a couple Probes and at least one Talon. All fell apart fast... but don't let that stop you!
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Peugeot 504 - the Car for Nigeria
03/30/09

In reply to The 24 Hours Of LeMons N00b's Race Car Selection Guide
Anyone ever run a late '90s Nissan Sentra or Altima? A quick rummaging of the local Craigslist turned up enough of them to call it a trend. I presume there's a reason that they're being sold for $500, but I wonder if they hold up during a LeMons.
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Murilee Martin
03/30/09

@Peugeot 504 - the Car for Nigeria: Never seen an Altima. I think the newest LeMons Sentra I've seen was of mid-90s vintage. Sentras should do well, though we haven't seen a large enough sample size to know for sure.
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Maymar
03/30/09

In reply to The 24 Hours Of LeMons N00b's Race Car Selection Guide
If I could afford to replace my Cavalier and run it in LeMons, I would. I'm sure I'd kill it, but that's sort of the goal. Besides, it's got the rare Z22 Track Pack (as a friend jokingly calls it).
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theholymac
03/29/09

In reply to The 24 Hours Of LeMons N00b's Race Car Selection Guide
We've been tossing around some ideas, the current though is to cram the bulletproof mopar slant-6 into something small and RWD: Datsun 240Z, older RX-7, or Nissan 240SX have all been though of...
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Murilee Martin
03/30/09

@theholymac: Why not a Cressida?
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Murilee Martin
03/30/09

@Murilee Martin: Or an 810/early Maxima?
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Plecostomus [Tyrrell]
03/29/09

In reply to The 24 Hours Of LeMons N00b's Race Car Selection Guide
This is an excellent guide, but I'm gonna contribute that the MN12-chassis Thunderbird and Cougar are dirt cheap and would probably do quite well. The thing is that in V8 trim, they seem to be practically unkillable and there is no shortage of them in the junkyards. Fully independent suspension, factory track lock rear wheel drive, coupled with the unfortunate choice of a 470RW automatic trans means that if you can keep the trans in check, it's sure to go the entire race distance at a reasonable pace (assuming of course, you haven't done something stupid like installed under drive pulleys that underdrive the freaking water pump!!!!!!!!)

Anyways, a lot of us on tccoa.com have been kicking the idea around, but I can tell you, you can pick up a runner MN12 thunderbird for virtually nothing and sell enough parts off it to get it sub $500 quite easily, even if you paid $500 to start.
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Serajadeyn
03/29/09

In reply to The 24 Hours Of LeMons N00b's Race Car Selection Guide
Murilee, I'm frankly Surprised you didn't Mention the 90's Ford P71s. they're all over the place from auction to junkyard for right around the cost limit, and have all the reliability upgrades done to them. you slap in a cage and go racing. Probably the most worry-free vehicle to use. True, the handling isn't the best but it's got a common as dirt V8 and enough retired fleet units to keep a lemons team swimming in parts.

Also, I'm frankly surprised nobody's shown up with a Renault Alliance or an 80s RWD Chrysler...maybe out in cali and i missed it?
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Murilee Martin
03/30/09

@Serajadeyn: After long discussion with Nick, I'm convinced that big cars aren't a good idea for beginner teams, because you're more likely to have contact with other cars... and that means you'll be spending a lot of time in the penalty box instead of racing. This is the same reason I didn't recommend big ol' 70s Yank tanks. After the "demolition derby" races at Altamont, we've become very strict about contact.

That said, the P71 does make a pretty good LeMons car. Engine power is on the lackluster side, but the brakes and suspension are good and they don't break down often at LeMons. I've got a '97 P71 myself, so I'm pretty familiar with the breed.
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TENGRAM
03/29/09

In reply to The 24 Hours Of LeMons N00b's Race Car Selection Guide
yeah, you can get plenty of fox mustang parts at the junkyard...like moldy LX seats that some scavenger took a post taco van dump on, cancerous body panels that have been sawzalled into shreds when someone needed to get to the good stuff quickly 15 yrs ago, or even some busted side mirrors if you're lucky! everything else was stripped the day after the fox got towed into the yard.
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Murilee Martin
03/30/09

@TENGRAM - Dallas Über Alles: The non-body parts from any Fox will usually swap onto any other Fox. Even dashes, seats, etc. will often swap.

Out here, though, you can find plenty of non-stripped Fox Mustangs in the junkyard.
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ConwaySagat
03/29/09

In reply to The 24 Hours Of LeMons N00b's Race Car Selection Guide
Friend of mine just bought an 82 Porsche 924 for the ohio LeMons... First time out, hopefully it'll work well. It'll be fun no matter what though.
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Murilee Martin
03/30/09

@ConwaySagat: On paper, the 924 (and 944) look like they should totally dominate at LeMons. The handling... the brakes... the balance!

The reality, however, hasn't worked out that way (though a 924 finished 14th and a 944 finished third at the Arse Freeze-a-Palooza '08 LeMons.
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Turboner
03/29/09

In reply to The 24 Hours Of LeMons N00b's Race Car Selection Guide
So, I've got this 1988 '735i with a fresh head gasket, rear dogbones and front lower control arms parked in front of my house. I could prob buy it for $500 from the owner (she got a "new" '99 323i to replace it, which I've also already fixed). Should I? It's an auto trans, 4spd OD, I think. Would it last? There wasn't water in the oil for long...
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cheap_sunglasses
03/30/09

@Turboner: Absolutely. The real question is will the 850CSi calipers+rotors that you swap on pass the BS test?
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Murilee Martin
03/30/09

@cheap_sunglasses: Brakes are safety equipment and thus not covered by the $500 limit. You can put $10,000 worth of brakes on the car if you want.
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Murilee Martin
03/30/09

@Turboner: Oh yes, a 735i would be a fine LeMons car! You could probably make the transmission live for a LeMons race if you used a small-car radiator as a trans cooler. Or you could do a junkyard manual-trans swap (though I betcha the engine computer would get all upset).

7 series cars are cheap and plentiful. Say, this one.
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Turboner
03/30/09

@Murilee Martin: Ha! I've already looked into the tranny swap (want to know what is possible before actually BUYING a LeMons car), it seems like you are right, the PCM gets all pissy. I've always wanted to try a megasquirt system, but even that would be too expensive for a $500 car. I know where I can get a trans cooler, no prob. I just don't know if those trannies are TH400 strong or AXOD weak. Perhaps I can find a correct year and swap in the man trans computer? Either way, that 3.5l pulls like stink, and I think it's just got a vacuum leak. The idle hunts around a bit, but WOT feels fine. Besides, the Dirty Drifters need another car that ISN'T a Corolla. Axis powers cars FTW!

Bonus question for Murilee: If I got the car in exchange for "services rendered," instead of actual money, how would I determine the cost?
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Murilee Martin
03/30/09

@Turboner: There's a lot of gray area in the "value for services" deal, but if the car is a 7 series we'll cut you lots of slack. E30, RX7, Miata, Integra, or Neon... not so much slack.
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texan01
03/29/09

In reply to The 24 Hours Of LeMons N00b's Race Car Selection Guide
What about Ford Contours? I picked one up last year for substantally less than the 500 limit. I've been driving it as a 2nd car/grocery getter when I tire of the Explorer or when friends cars die and I let them borrow it.

2nd thought, I think the automatic in it would call shenanigans and give me the bird. It already gives me the evil glare when I do spirited driving (the 2.0 4 banger is actually a sweet engine) To say it's a slushbox is an understatement, and it's always finding itself in the wrong gear.
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Paul Y. don't drive too fast.
03/29/09

@texan01: I've always been under the impression that ALL Ford slushboxes are constantly in the wrong gear. It's what makes driving a Ford interesting, I suppose.
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TechnoDestructo
03/29/09

In reply to The 24 Hours Of LeMons N00b's Race Car Selection Guide
Why do head gaskets blow on Hondas at LeMons, but not on the road?
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Murilee Martin
03/29/09

@TechnoDestructo: Good question. Actually, they do blow on the road, but probably not more than any other aluminum engine (and nowhere near as frequently as LeMons cars).
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Serious Mopar Jones- Incurable
03/29/09

@TechnoDestructo: Because they're not being asked to run 12 hours at a stretch during your morning commute, which is also (evidence notwithstanding) not a full-contact race?
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Paul Y. don't drive too fast.
03/29/09

@Slantsick's truck is possum-magnet yellow: ...and at high rpm that whole time, presumably. Basically, everything that hypothetically can stress an engine, does so at LeMons.
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something_unique_and_descriptive
03/29/09

@TechnoDestructo: Because not many people run them to redline on the street, and when they do it's not over and over and over again all day long
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TENGRAM
03/29/09

@something_unique_and_descripti...: the kids around here do just that.
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Mad_Science
03/30/09

@TENGRAM - Dallas Über Alles: Cuz that's where vtec kicks in, yo.
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Murilee Martin
03/30/09

@something_unique_and_descripti...: Honda engines aren't so good at dealing with running hot, and running one at redline for hour after hour (which is the only way to get power out of the engine, especially if you don't have VTEC) is a good way to run hot.
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Peugeot 504 - the Car for Nigeria
03/30/09

@Murilee Martin: Pretty much. Most pre-2000 Hondas I know of blew a head gasket somewhere between 115 and 150K.

Is there any good way to prep them for racing at LeMons, or do even new head gaskets blow anyway after enough racing?
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Murilee Martin
03/30/09

@Peugeot 504 - the Car for Nigeria: I've seen more than one LeMons Honda go through multiple head gaskets during a race, so I don't think the new gaket solves the problem.

However, I bet that installing a massive radiator and an extra cooling fan would help a lot.
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The Big Cheez
03/29/09

In reply to The 24 Hours Of LeMons N00b's Race Car Selection Guide
What about a Neon? i mean they get alot of downforce with that wing and everythin, lmao.
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Murilee Martin
03/30/09

@The Big Cheez: The Neon is one of those cars that's very fast around a race track (sucked for daily driving, great for racing), but I've seen plenty of them break at LeMons. Sort of like the Integra- an all-or-nothing gamble.
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