@dragon951: Oddly enough, I haven't managed to spin any of the following: '73 911 Targa, '70 912, god-knows-what-year 356, 1996 Cabrio, or 2007 Carrera. I know only three of those count as 911s, but I pushed 'em pretty hard and didn't manage to get into any trouble. Guess I wasn't pushing hard enough.
I didn't do a full 360, but was def facing, well, not the right way, after I was bit too liberal with the throttle in a tweaked '86 911. Scariest part - it happened at 40mph. To this day, though, I still dream about driving that car.
These things make you learn quick, that's for sure.
@ThreeLitre: I've slid the back end out a little, but managed to catch it before it turned into an ass-in-front fest. I'd love to take an '80s or '90s 911 to an oversize autocross course and see how well I can hone my skills! I'd feel safer pushing it there than on the Pacific Coast Highway, ya know?
P.S. Wouldn't that be ridiculously fun? A regular autocross set up with a huge version of the same course set up right next to it that you could take at much higher speeds... less technical, but more demanding of high speed maneuvering skills.
@leetNightshade: I think that's a large part of why it happened at all. I was totally caught by surprise, and it really did teach me how twitchy those things can be, even at lower speeds. I think if I had done it at even a little bit faster speed, I wouldn't be remembering it so fondly.
@Leeeeena the Jalopchick: That would be pretty sweet. Unfortunately I've heard tell that 911s are about some of the toughest cars to autocross at all because of their ass-engined nature.
The last autocross I was at was all BMW, and the one car that was friggin awesome to watch was the new 1 series: short wheelbase, good power, rear wheel drive, and balanced. The guy was flying.
@Turbolence88: I'm pretty sure your snowboard is much, much cheaper than that machine. But then again, those wheelarches add 10 horsepowers each, and shave 5 seconds from the 'Ring time, each.
Don't forget the GT3 RS only comes with a six-speed manual (as do the ZR-1 and Viper ACR). If Porsche were to equip a GT3 RS with their new PDK system, it would probably be a lot closer to the GT-R's time, considering that it shaved 8 seconds off a 2009 Carrera S' Nordschleife time vs. a manually-equipped one.
@uncleben: Yes, you are not educated about the car and its capabilities. Like most people you know very little about the GT-R, but have a lot to say about it. Get educated before opening your mouth. #ringwars
@avanti5010: Slow down champ. Where is all this unwarranted hostilities coming from? I merely made a statement based on a observation and said that I do need to educate myself about this car. I never tired to put the car down, but merely stated that by looking at it I do not think it was so capable.
I just hoped that someone would take their time to help me understand why the car is as good as it is. Which "Power Tryp forever" has done and you have not.
I do have one request:
Don't cluster me with the Porsche fanboys out there. The ZR1 is still faster so I am happy and I don't want to get involved in the quarrel you Nissan fans have with Porsche fans. #ringwars
@uncleben: It's the classic tale of a car that is magnificent in design, yet poorly executed to save a buck. The GT-R design was a good one, but in order to cut costs and be cheaper than the rest, they appear to have used cheaper materials. This would refer not only to the grenaded transmission joke (cause nothing says a cheap car like buying a new $20k tranny), but to the general expense of maintenance (I'm looking at you $2000 tranny fluid every 18k miles). Then there are non-Jalop complaints like Evo's test where the demo car they had already had cracking brake disks.
This car has the same components you will find in a Porsche cup car (their actual race cars) sans the sequential six and full cage. So you can be assured it will run around the 'ring all day (as it does at the Nurburgring 24 and countless other endurance races), whereas the GTR race car is completely different from the street car (it doesn't even have the same kind of engine).
Then there is the whole issue of a lack of third party verification on the Nissan 'ring time. Porsche is famous for its production cars always achieving the claimed performance figures (in fact, they usually undershoot their claims). This has been verified on every last one of their cars, as they have been running the 'ring since before it was cool. This whole tiff started when Porsche walked into a random US Nissan dealership and bought a GT-R, then shipped it home to verify the time. The best they could manage was in the 7:50s. So far, no one has been able to replicate Nissan's time. Add to this that several magazines (I think Motor Trend was one) dynoed their demo car and found it had been tarted up a bit to wow the reviewers (which isn't all that uncommon). This all leads to the conclusion that the GT-R you buy will probably not be able to turn in a 'ring time of 7:26 or 7:29, but the average car owner (myself included) doesn't have the skill to max out the car anyways.
The final straw would be the warranty issue, where Nissan's clearly states that using your launch control will void the warranty as will dynoing it or taking it to a race track. Therefore, if you drive it in any way other than strictly to the letter of the law, the GT-R's data recorder will tell the Dealership next check-up, and ipso facto, warranty retracto. Contrast this to Porsche, which offers trackday and driver's ed (the race track kind, not the passenger brake kind) courses from the dealership, and will warrant it absolutely so long as you don't try to upgrade parts (although who knows how long that will last once VW has had their way).
The end result is a Porsche may be expensive, but it's not just a mark-up. You get what you pay for, and GT-R owners paid for a house on sand.
Oh, and do group me in with the Porsche fanboys: there is no substitute.#ringwars
I just realized what a genius that bum on the simpsons was. You know the one that invented itchy and scratchy and spent all his money on a gold house and a rocket car.
That is exactly what you would need on mars.
@Skunky:
[putting on my engineer hat]
Let's see, a normal car has a 15 gallon gas tank, which if gasoline is 6 pounds per gallon, weighs about 90 pounds when full. A normal air to fuel ratio in a car is about 11:1, so you'll need an equivalent of 990 pounds of air to burn the whole tank of gas. Air is 20% oxygen, so you'll need 198 pounds of oxygen.
Yeah, I think you could do that. You might need a pickup to fit the oxygen tanks, but it's doable. You might be able to lean out the mixture even more since there would be zero oxides of nitrogen forming, which would lessen the amount of oxygen you would need to carry.
A hydrogen/oxygen fuel cell might work better though.
@mr_dude: Did you know that the entire inside area of the space shuttle's payload bay doors are made up of radiators? They are filled with ammonia and are used to cool the avionics during the stay in space. Yes, it's true, radiators don't even need an atmosphere to operate. The ISS has radiators as well, they look shorter, wiggly versions of the solar panel wings.
@Skunky: Damn, hope those suckers never take the shuttle to a repair shop. "We changed your timing belt, but you really need a new radiator..."
Maybe they need all those radiators because they're less efficient? As in, the heat is transferred via radiation rather than radiation and convection?
First day of scuba you learn that you lose body heat significantly faster in water than air, I think the density of the medium plays a role.
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
I didn't do a full 360, but was def facing, well, not the right way, after I was bit too liberal with the throttle in a tweaked '86 911. Scariest part - it happened at 40mph. To this day, though, I still dream about driving that car.
These things make you learn quick, that's for sure.
EDIT- sorry, typo - it was supposed to be 40mph
11/19/09
P.S. Wouldn't that be ridiculously fun? A regular autocross set up with a huge version of the same course set up right next to it that you could take at much higher speeds... less technical, but more demanding of high speed maneuvering skills.
#tips
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
The last autocross I was at was all BMW, and the one car that was friggin awesome to watch was the new 1 series: short wheelbase, good power, rear wheel drive, and balanced. The guy was flying.
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
Strangely enough I'm cool with that.
11/19/09
11/19/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
oh wait. #ringwars
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
@Steve_in_NC: Hey you guys, remember not to dragon the gtr in public.
10/28/09
But still that time does seem suspect.
Maybe I'm just not that educated about the car and its capabilities.
10/28/09
10/28/09
I just hoped that someone would take their time to help me understand why the car is as good as it is. Which "Power Tryp forever" has done and you have not.
I do have one request:
Don't cluster me with the Porsche fanboys out there. The ZR1 is still faster so I am happy and I don't want to get involved in the quarrel you Nissan fans have with Porsche fans. #ringwars
10/28/09
This car has the same components you will find in a Porsche cup car (their actual race cars) sans the sequential six and full cage. So you can be assured it will run around the 'ring all day (as it does at the Nurburgring 24 and countless other endurance races), whereas the GTR race car is completely different from the street car (it doesn't even have the same kind of engine).
Then there is the whole issue of a lack of third party verification on the Nissan 'ring time. Porsche is famous for its production cars always achieving the claimed performance figures (in fact, they usually undershoot their claims). This has been verified on every last one of their cars, as they have been running the 'ring since before it was cool. This whole tiff started when Porsche walked into a random US Nissan dealership and bought a GT-R, then shipped it home to verify the time. The best they could manage was in the 7:50s. So far, no one has been able to replicate Nissan's time. Add to this that several magazines (I think Motor Trend was one) dynoed their demo car and found it had been tarted up a bit to wow the reviewers (which isn't all that uncommon). This all leads to the conclusion that the GT-R you buy will probably not be able to turn in a 'ring time of 7:26 or 7:29, but the average car owner (myself included) doesn't have the skill to max out the car anyways.
The final straw would be the warranty issue, where Nissan's clearly states that using your launch control will void the warranty as will dynoing it or taking it to a race track. Therefore, if you drive it in any way other than strictly to the letter of the law, the GT-R's data recorder will tell the Dealership next check-up, and ipso facto, warranty retracto. Contrast this to Porsche, which offers trackday and driver's ed (the race track kind, not the passenger brake kind) courses from the dealership, and will warrant it absolutely so long as you don't try to upgrade parts (although who knows how long that will last once VW has had their way).
The end result is a Porsche may be expensive, but it's not just a mark-up. You get what you pay for, and GT-R owners paid for a house on sand.
Oh, and do group me in with the Porsche fanboys: there is no substitute. #ringwars
10/28/09
07/23/09
07/22/09
I just realized what a genius that bum on the simpsons was. You know the one that invented itchy and scratchy and spent all his money on a gold house and a rocket car.
That is exactly what you would need on mars.
07/22/09
07/22/09
Even with a gas guzzling V8, at least on Mars no one will bitch about your CO2 emissions.
07/22/09
07/22/09
07/22/09
/pedantry
07/22/09
07/22/09
[putting on my engineer hat]
Let's see, a normal car has a 15 gallon gas tank, which if gasoline is 6 pounds per gallon, weighs about 90 pounds when full. A normal air to fuel ratio in a car is about 11:1, so you'll need an equivalent of 990 pounds of air to burn the whole tank of gas. Air is 20% oxygen, so you'll need 198 pounds of oxygen.
Yeah, I think you could do that. You might need a pickup to fit the oxygen tanks, but it's doable. You might be able to lean out the mixture even more since there would be zero oxides of nitrogen forming, which would lessen the amount of oxygen you would need to carry.
A hydrogen/oxygen fuel cell might work better though.
07/23/09
@mr_dude: Did you know that the entire inside area of the space shuttle's payload bay doors are made up of radiators? They are filled with ammonia and are used to cool the avionics during the stay in space. Yes, it's true, radiators don't even need an atmosphere to operate. The ISS has radiators as well, they look shorter, wiggly versions of the solar panel wings.
07/23/09
Maybe they need all those radiators because they're less efficient? As in, the heat is transferred via radiation rather than radiation and convection?
First day of scuba you learn that you lose body heat significantly faster in water than air, I think the density of the medium plays a role.
07/22/09
07/22/09