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bzr
05/04/09

In reply to Seven Cars That Killed Pontiac
I remember being a kid and thinking that the light-up "PONTIAC" script on the back of the Sunfire was the coolest thing ever. Of course, I was pretty easily impressed at the time.

Look, you can't even see it in that picture! That's how little anybody cares about the Sunfire!
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A strolling player
05/04/09

@bzr - more like carbon ASSprint AMIRITE GUIZ: Oh thank god, it wasn't just me. That was the coolest thing ever!
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JONNRG
04/28/09

In reply to Seven Cars That Killed Pontiac
7 other cars that killed Pontiac:

1972 BMW 2002
1983 Volkswagen GTI
1988 Honda Civic Si
1989 Mazda Miata
2002 Subaru WRX
2006 Mitsubishi Evo
2010 Chevy Camaro
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Ben Wojdyla
04/28/09

@JONNRG: Nice. You get a heart click.
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Silversmok3
04/28/09

In reply to Seven Cars That Killed Pontiac
I must defend my little '00 Grand Am.195,000 miles, original trans, new head gasket.Thing still runs like a top, and no, its the 4 cylinder.

And the interior?Wide panel gaps=easy installation of interior modifications.As the Grand Am sold well up till its replacement, id say it helped keep Pontiac alive, not kill it.

(puts on flame suit)
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Ben Wojdyla
04/28/09

@Silversmok3: Nobody argues the Grand Am didn't sell well, as does the G6, but does it fit with a brand which claims to be performance oriented? Do the outmatch, or even come close to the Japanese competitors? When GM shoveled them at fleet operators and rental car companies it certainly did nothing for the resale prices.

You ever have your spherical HVAC outlets shrink from the plastic offgassing and just spin, end-over-end in the air flow? Makes you laugh until you realize the rest of the car is designed that well.
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MushyHeirloom
04/28/09

In reply to Seven Cars That Killed Pontiac
This isn't on the list?

"Look! I'm a fugly Impala! Check out my twenty-year-old chassis that was unimpressive when new!"

Suspension sucked less, anyway.
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If FromaBuick6 has to watch one more Chevy commercial, he's going to punch Howie Long in the face
04/28/09

@FuzzyPlushroomanyte: Actually, ever generation of W-body Grand Prix should be on here. If there's any one car line that doomed GM, it's the W-body. Whereas Ford's Taurus succeeded, the GM-10 program that spawned this was a poorly-executed, underengineered piece of shit from day one. And it's taken GM 20 years to produce models on this platform that might have been class competitive 15 years ago.

The X-car was a disaster, but GM could have recovered their reputation. The thing is, they never even tried.
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MushyHeirloom
04/28/09

In reply to Seven Cars That Killed Pontiac
The Cavalier was a good cheap beater?

Let it be known that there has never, to my knowledge, been an uglier grille. On anything. Ever.
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If FromaBuick6 has to watch one more Chevy commercial, he's going to punch Howie Long in the face
04/28/09

@FuzzyPlushroomanyte: That last Cavalier facelift was one of the most pathetic things I've ever seen. It's the kind of thing AMC and Studebaker did when they were gasping for life...maybe GM was trying to predict the future.
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Iwannarace
04/28/09

In reply to Seven Cars That Killed Pontiac
We bastardize GM for sucking the "coolness" out of Pontiac, but the reality is that enthusiasts like us are NOT the ones who keep car companies in business. For every 1 of us, there are 1,000 Joe-Schmoes and Soccer-Moms who place practicality, convenience and vanilla-styling high, high, high on their what-to-buy criteria. I am, by no means, trying to argue that Pontiac was managed properly, but instead, cars like the G6 are what could have saved the nameplate way sooner than the G8 GXP. The error in GM's decisions wasn't that they decided to build non-enthusiast cars, but instead, it was their inability to properly design or build ANYTHING that didn't have a V8.

The G6 was truly the epiphany for GM. They finally got the mid-size car right. But alas, it was too late as the ship was already sinking. The fiduciary reality if 0% financing against outrageous overhead costs (unions and executives alike) were way too, and continue to be, much too fatal for any great car to beat.
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Mad_Science
04/28/09

@Iwannarace: You're assuming Pontiac needed to be yet another mass-market brand for GM.

Pontiac should've been pared down to the performance brand their marketing claimed to be, and let Chevy dominate the volume sales.

GM shouldn't have caved to dealer demands for a "me too" of every volume seller.
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Iwannarace
04/28/09

@Mad_Science:
I agree for the most-part, but me-too marketing works. For example - was the Grand Prix the "me-too" of the Monte Carlo, or was it visa versa? Both sold modestly well, and both had and still have strong fan-boy following. Decisions to re-badge a Chevette and call it a LeMans, and/or an Aveo and call it a G3 are not good decisions (IMO) by any stretch, but developing a single platform that can be used to market similar but name-plate distinct cars is a very good business decision.

Ferrari Enzo and the Maserati MC12 for example…
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Mad_Science
04/28/09

@Iwannarace: Nope.

If GM took all the funds they used to create a trim-only Pontiac version of a Chevy and spent them on making the Chevy better, or marketing it better, they'd have done better in the long-run.

Best example would be Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla Vs the miscellaneous assorted compact GM vehicles over the years.

Just to clarify, this argument applies to cars that were only different in terms of styling/trim. What Pontiac could've/should've been was real performance versions of mass-market GM platforms. I've gone off on it at length, here.
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Dave7
04/28/09

In reply to Seven Cars That Killed Pontiac

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.357
04/28/09

@Dave7: That's exactly how I feel!
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WilliamG.
04/28/09

In reply to Seven Cars That Killed Pontiac
I have never, EVER seen one of those minivans before. Not even in pictures. The Chevy version, yes. But never a Pontiac. And here I thought Pontiac shed itself of the minivans that are still called minivans and went strictly with the minivans that are called crossover SUVs.
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MushyHeirloom
04/28/09

@WilliamG.: I saw one... once. I've seen exactly one Saturn version too.

The Chevy ones are around occasionally, and I want to punch the drivers in the head.
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FTGDWolverineEdition'09
04/28/09

In reply to Seven Cars That Killed Pontiac
I think I've dated girls who drove all of the above except for the Montana and the G3. Says a lot about me?
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Mad_Science
04/28/09

@Formerlythegreatestdriver: You were just trying to rescue them.
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If FromaBuick6 has to watch one more Chevy commercial, he's going to punch Howie Long in the face
04/28/09

In reply to Seven Cars That Killed Pontiac
My driver's ed car was a Sunfire. What a miserable, noisy, plasticy piece of shit. Good riddance.
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Mad_Science
04/28/09

In reply to Seven Cars That Killed Pontiac
For me, it was definitely the Grand Am of the 90s.

Probably an example of how a sales winner (I remember them being everywhere) can damage your brand.

Mediocre engines, 4AT and FWD wouldn't have been so bad if the car hadn't been marketed as a "sporty" on account of the fog lights and cladding. It really drove the point home to me that GM didn't (and doesn't) get it.
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Tier 5 royal, the Manic King
04/28/09

In reply to Seven Cars That Killed Pontiac
for my euro eye G6 is one of the nicest US car designs, clean, with good proportions and simple.

Also I somehow like Grand Prix McLaren. hmmm
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Big Stig
04/28/09

@Manic King of Corinthia: I agree. It was such a tasteful departure from its predecessor, although that's not saying much since Clark Griswold's Family Truckster had more subtlety and exuded more refinement than the Grand Am.

Of course, GM had to screw with the G6's clean design, though, so we wound up with the G6 GXP. Whereas other GXP models like the Bonneville and G8 had clean lines and tasteful upgrades to separate them from their less powerful brethren, the G6 GXP had that Whitney Houston snorting coke front clip and a snow plow for a rear spoiler. So even when Pontiac does something reasonably well like the G6, someone can't resist pressing the fuck-up button.

Now, if you'll excuse me, my 2010 Buick LaSnooze awaits.
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Ben Wojdyla
04/28/09

@Big Stig, Luxury Yacht Captain: Interesting bit of industry lore: GM based it's styling decision of the G6 GXP on what 50 Cent liked in the early mockups.
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Ford Tempo Fanatic
04/28/09

In reply to Seven Cars That Killed Pontiac
Only seven? But there are so many more!

Sad fact of the matter is, I can count the number of "good" Pontiacs on one hand. At the same time I would need to be some sort of multi-manus mutant to count all the terrible, disgusting Pontiacs.
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.357
04/28/09

@Ford Tempo Fanatic: A multi-manus mutant made out of the plastic in Pontiacs.
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Ford Tempo Fanatic
04/28/09

@.357: That is a very strange picture.
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theeastbaykid
04/28/09

In reply to Seven Cars That Killed Pontiac
Honorable mention: Phoenix. The G6 is an interesting study for me--I rented one (naturally), and was surprised at how competent it was. It was also a car that was used literally interchangeably with the unspeakable Chrysler Sebring, so the G6's relative excellence was at best a footnote and at worst a completely moot point. It's as if GM had given birth to a gifted child and made it ride the short bus anyway.
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engineerd
04/28/09

@theeastbaykid: Haha...yes. I had a G6 rental (V6, luckily). It was not a horrible car and I was actually mildly impressed. Of course, I had spent an entire week with a stripped down Corrola so I may have been easy to impress at that point. The next trip I had a Taurus (the new one) and that was a nice ride. Too bad it felt bigger than it really is.
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engineerd
04/28/09

In reply to Seven Cars That Killed Pontiac
The Seven Cars that Killed Pontiac:

Lust: G3: Lust for a small car further mired the brand in a fog of purpose.

Gluttony: Bonneville: Every bell and whistle in a car that couldn't compete on price.

Greed: Montana: Did Pontiac really need a minivan? What kind of "performance" does minivan impart? But, it was a hot segment.

Sloth: Sunfire: It couldn't even get out of it's own way.

Wrath: Aztek: It sparks anger in me every time I see it. Form follows function, yes. However, that form has to have some desirable aspects.

Envy: G6: Envious of a mid-size car that was "hot", the G6 never delivered.

Pride: Grand Am: With plastic cladding galore, the Grand Am always aspired and tried to be much more than it was. Pride goeth before a fall.
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Jo Schmo
04/28/09

@engineerd: What's in the box?!?
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