I mean, I COULD live walking distance from work, but they're all run-down 1930s shacks in a very poorly-run suburb. So do I have a choice? Sure. But I can't allow my job to dictate all of my life's choices, so like most Americans, I commute in the car. And I'll still bitch about gas prices because it gives us all something to talk about.

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we use too much gas.

all that money goes to the middle east.

that is bad.

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We Americans sure are a whiny bunch.

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OR WE COULD USE LESS GAS!

why the aversion to simply trimming gasoline use, something that could be done TODAY, in an effort to ease demand and stop the flow of $ to the Middle East.

what's the issue with that? is it the old "i'm an American I drive what I want!" thing?

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THAT AND

the socialists have gotten through the other countries (europe) and tax the hell out of gas.

Germany: 5.16
UK: 5.02
France: 4.83
Japan: 2.29
Canada: 1.19
US: 0.40

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Use less gas, Sure, I agree with you. that is PART of it... but only part and can't be forced on others. We need to drill and access our own forms of energy also. we can't just say "lets keep sending our money to the middle east" and "use less gas" will solve the problem. because its not.

just using less gas is like saying "just eat less food and that will sove our hunger problems in the world."

Bottom line:
It is not your place to tell me what I can and can't spend my money on.
whether it be an $8,000 guitar, a $9,000 dish washer, or $1000 in gasoline.

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How many acres do they want to use in Alaska for drilling??? ANWR is 19+ million acres.

the numbers I've seen is they need 1000 acres to drill. lets pretend its 100 times that okay.. lets pretend they want 100,000 acres. out of 19+ million.

That is 0.526% of the land. one half of a fucking percent to increase our energy independance. and thats assuming they need 100x the land they said they do. half a fucking percent and its all in desolate artic tundra! there are no forrest seals where they want to drill my eco-brainwashed friend.

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Same argument we use for weed.

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Meh, even if all your figures are correct and nothing else they do while drilling harms the environment, the amount of oil we'd get from it doesn't seem worth it. Plus Sarah Palin supports it.

I do support your freedom of automotive choice though. I may be a liberal with long hair who occasionally smokes some green leafy substances but I'm no communist.

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Also, if you really want money for infrastructure, then cut out Wealfare, SS and Medi-care/caid. They consume nearly 75% of the money taken in by taxes from working Americans. We'd have some bitchin roads if we weren't paying people not to work and we'd have better cars since we would have more money to spend on them.

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Infrastructure means more than roads. Things like schools, hospitals, water plants. Plus remember, us liberals are glad that 75% (or whatever # you come up with) goes to the benefits you mentioned above.

E30 guy: I'm a working American and I approve this message.

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You're glad that my money goes to something I don't support? Well fine, maybe I shouldn't have to pay for it then, and I won't expect to use it should I need it, don't worry.

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and you are a screaming baby douchebag.

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And if you had your way the only surviving old people would be the rich assholes who live too long anyway. Threaten my grandma and I'll chain you to my bumper and road-haul you until you're nothing but a foot wearing a blood-soaked shoe.

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@Unregular: So Ponzi schemes aren't legal for you or me, but completely legit and even "the right thing to do" when the FED.GOV does it.

@Unregular: Those things are controlled by the State and local govs. Read the 10th Ammendment, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people"
SO. If it isn't expressly given to the FED.GOV in the Constitution, then it is a power regulated to the State. Don't see Medicare/caid, SS or Wealfare concepts in the Constitution, so it looks like you are SOL.

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she, like my grandmother, should have planned better. not my fault.

when SS started, you recieved the bennies 2 years after the average age of death of an american. it was never intended to be a retirement plan. but like most governmental things, people depend on them and become slaves to the system...

I believe in a nation where we are all smart enough and have enough self respect to plan ahead and not depend on people outside of family when we get old.

"where in the constitution does it say the government provides you roads, fire, police, garbage collection?"

Thats all paid for using local money dude. no federal crap. thats how it SHOULD work!

Federal Government: Protect the 50 states and deal with outside treaties

State & Local: Everything Else.

@baldy_pm: Ex-fucking-actly
Heart click for you for not drinking kool-aid

@Unregular:
"you're an anarchist then? no laws? kiddie porn and speeding and heroin for all?"

laws protect people from harming others. when you get right down to it:
Speeding shouldn't be illegal until you hit someone else and harming them or their property.

@ TowerOfPower:"I will admit that I did argue that more expensive gas would create less demand and solve what the government wants to solve with "climate change". Which it would.

I never said I wanted it to happen or that I even believe that it will affect "climate change"."

Yep. there are alot of problems that don't exist that can be solved with the proper application of government.
::Puke in my Mouth:

@RagtagOperation:

You've got to love political cartoons that are both innacurate and not funny.

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If fuel's going to be taxed, it should be exclusively to pay for bus service. Or trains, where we've got the rails already.

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Keep your guns, I'm not against them, but they'll do you a fat lot of good against a SWAT team. Our government has always considered income tax evasion Serious Fucking Business, and they'll find you. In a perfect world I'd support your tax plan but I'm frankly afraid of what all the pricks like you would do with it.

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Well, actually in a real society it would be everybody's right and duty to help others, making the world a beter place for all.. not just for themselves o their own little (completely unnecessary) habits.

basically what you said about yourself is that you are an egoist. CONGRATZ!

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Why can't we do that? I pay for the car I use. I pay for everything I use. Why should I pay for stuff I don't use like busses?

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sounds like you're an anarchist too. no laws, no taxes, no goverment. that's what you're looking for?

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The constution clearly lays all this out.

[www.usconstitution.net]

Why the fuck are there still people who haven't actually read it!?

If you harm someone physically (punching you in the face) or arguably a certian level of physcologically (kiddie porn illegal, offending you not) or finacally (vandalizing my giant SUV) its illegal.

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But if it makes you uncomfortable and bitter too, then my work here is done!

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basic Convervative tenet: LET GRANDMAS DIE.

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It tows my 260hp V8 boat when I am not driving my 2.4 turbo 300hp Neon with fully adjustable suspeions, where you feel a penny you run over in your lower back but can take a cloverleef at 55pmh no problem. sometimes I like to float.

@ RagtagOperation:"It's inaccurate because I'm directing it towards jodark's assertion that it's completely unfair that someone freeloads on something like, oh, health care on his taxed dime"

One of my grandparents saved up so they wouldn't have to depend on anythign when they got older. one of them did not. guess which one hasn't had to put in a medicare claim yet.

its called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. we all knwo we will get old. prepair for it.

@Unregular:"basic Convervative tenet: LET GRANDMAS DIE."

No, let grandmas prepair for their retirement, and like all people, suffer the consiquences if they don't. (which SHOULD mean the family takes care of them... not the government)

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The "have money or die" idea of elderly care isn't a matter of "prepairation." It's about luck. Some Great Society that is.

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/only half-serious

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@JB_Finesse:@zeet:
At NO place did I say I didn't pay my taxes. I just said I didn't want to, I pay them. AND I said I have a problem with the FEDGOV, not the local or state govs which run schools, police depts and fire services.

Also, my semi-auto rifle in .308 will go through body armor won't have trouble going trouble level IIIA ballistic plates, so I may end up dead if they come for my guns, but I will be bringing 2-3 of them with me.

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I'd also be surprised if you even took one SWAT officer or federal agent with you before they tear gassed your house and blasted the living shit out of you and probably your family, if your family is anywhere near as retarded as you. The fact that you'd be willing to kill police officers over income taxes is just amazing.

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Hey Jordak...

You know when you've won the arguement when...

And you JB are missing the point. this country had a revolution for that exact reason. a fucking revolution.

If your not a fan, move back to france you lilly livered bagget eating barret wearing peugeot driving round-about loving socialist Surrender monkey ball licker.

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Even if I were a French socialist ball-licker like in your fantasy, at least I don't brag about my fugly torqueless wrong-wheel-drive piece of plastic shit that goes around "cloverleef"s at speeds I could do in a stock Astro Van. How much money did you sink into that pussy deflector anyway? Enough to buy a decent car that's actually fast to begin with? Undoubtedly.

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before a wastegate upgrade and 4.5 extra PSI:

And Yes. Taxes. Taxation without representation. a fricking war over it. it shows you how weak and pathetic we have become to not only allow the government to tax 45% of our income, but to Gladly GET ON JALOPNIK AND BITCH THAT WE NEED MORE TAXES IN THE FORM OF GAS TAXES.

[en.wikipedia.org]

For the love of God man... If George Washington was alive right now, he would come to each of your houses and punch your mothers in their baby makers.

Even these guys aren't buying that story...


and they are high as a motherfucker!

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So let's break it down:

Performer intake $140

Used Carb $100

Carb rebuild kit $ 50

Cam $150

Vortec heads $250each

K&N(or whatever) $150

MSD ignition $130

8mm wires $100

Grand Total: $1320

And with all that you would have a car that would probably eat a Camaro or a 5.0 Mustang for lunch. Where the problem comes in, is that your stock gears(rear end, torque convertor, trans) are not set up to take on a 300+hp Neon that is half the curb weight of a Camino. Not saying that it couldn't be done, but it would take more than $1200. By the way, what does it matter what I drive?

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They have completly lost the arguement and realize they look like socialist government loving monkeys, so now they are trying to pick on spelling and the kinds of cars we drive.

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yes - you have won the "kill grandmas" argument, congratulations.

your ansesestors must be proud.

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Look, the government may not be doing exactly what you want with your money, but you have to admit that it's awfully nice to have a huge safety net in case of an emergency. For those of you who wish you didn't have to pay any taxes and not have any use of government services, as a very frequent traveler to third world countries which are often very unfriendly to Americans, I can tell you I'm incredibly comforted by the thought that if some loonies kidnap me and hold me hostage, damn straight my government is gonna come kick some ass and get me out.

jodark, the grandparent you mentioned who prepared for his/her old age and retirement - how long do you think he or she will be able to hold out financially if cancer strikes? What about getting hit by a car? Last time I checked, a day in a hospital was usually a minimum of several grand. It's pretty easy to blow through several hundred thousand dollars on treatments and medications when you're old and frail.

zeeboid... I don't even know what to respond to you. Run along and play with your Neon.

JB_Finesse, thanks for bringing the discussion back to cars. I'm not convinced you could spank zeeboid's Neon for the cost you mentioned, but I'd love to see you try. Post pics if you get around to doing it!

Unregular, I usually keep my mouth shut on political discussions on Jalopnik because it's just frustrating to deal with a lot of people on here, so I am glad you voice most of my viewpoints for me. However, your posts have been sounding a little frantic lately, so maybe step back with the personal stuff, eh?

jodark, Flathead Smith, zeeboid, baldy_pm, GasGuzzler, etc.: you guys are all strictly anti-government control and don't believe in global warming, etc. Does that mean that you have to be a dick to make the point that you can do whatever you want? A little consideration for other people and the future might not be a terrible thing, you know.

Drilling is not the answer to anything. You can't buy a lion or a tank without a LOT of restrictions and qualifications because most people couldn't HANDLE a lion or a tank without a lot of restrictions or qualifications. Health care is a necessary evil. Whether or not you think global warming exists, it would be great for our environment and wallets to cut down on consumption. Alternative energy holds a lot of promise for the job market, financial and technological independence, and leaving a cleaner planet for our future.

That is all. Thank you.

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Save the lions!

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I have heard that CA and some states jack up the diesel taxes, but around here, it's back in line with regular 87 gas.

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I guess the private sector really has figured out how taxation works so well!

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Your oil dollars at work.

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@Unregular: "all that money goes to the middle east."

BZZZT! I'm sorry you've answered incorrectly, though not surprisingly given where you probably get your information. Nearly 50% of America's oil comes from Canada, then about 25% comes from Russia, the last 25% is from various sources. Thanks for playing, good luck next time.

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Sorry, not gonna fly in Wisconsin. Diamond Doyle got his "Oil Company Tax" threw his budget last night. Demanding oil companies pay higher taxes on profits and telling us that the Oil Companies can't pass it along to the consumer.

Ya, right.

You blame Republicans, I'll blame Democrats that can't seem to get it threw their heads that over taxing people and business doesn't create growth. Well it does, growth of Guberment.

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In reality, the GOP doesn't have the clout to merit blame, much less credit, for anything these days. That's what they get for nominating a moderate old fart without a coherent message to replace a "compassionate conservative" who spent truckloads of money on dumb programs in a failed effort to make the left forgive him for the truckloads of money spent on the War on Terror.

And, yeah, you're exactly right. The idea that taxing the hell out of oil company profits to "teach 'em a lesson" is either pure insanity or one more disguised step towards socialism. Either way, the consumers aren't going to save a dime.

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ampedpack!

embargo lifted...

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