As a fussy bastard, I'm starting to take issue with most reviews of sports cars I ever read, and how they are drivers cars etc. etc. etc.
Yeah, they are, compared to an Infiniti or something, and I've not driven the 370z. But I have driven the 350, and;
The thing is, the limits are too damned high. There's loads of grip. Theres good weight distribution and masses of power. But unless you're really damn good (and I'm probably not) you don't really get involved other than aiming the car and pressing go.
Personally speaking, and I know I'm probably wrong here, a Drivers Car is one where you can feel the limits and know what to do when you reach them. Like an old Capri or Ford Mustang. Primitive suspension. Skinny tyres and too much power for the chassis.
That's where the fun is. Getting a "Whoa" moment at 60 and knowing how to catch it.
In this, I just know any "Whoa" moment would see me doing a Nick Hogan.
Give Nick a TR6 or a '68 Vette and maybe he'll learn something. Stick him in a Lambo with immense grip and power, and the soft tissue behind the helm starts to be a big problem.
And I think it's a totally valid criticism. Luckily, there's an affordable, practical solution. Just buy a Hyundai Genesis Coupe, it makes all the same moves as the Z, but its limits are lower so it's more fun to drive in everyday conditions and for a wider range of drivers.
@Rust-MyEnemy: Oh, how I agree with you. Friends with powerful and capable sports cars or luxosport sedans laugh at me when I tell them how much fun I had with a CRX, but they just don't understand. It was like driving a comfortable and rain-proof go-kart. Every outing was an adventure and a potential test of the car's ability. Light weight and not having scads of reserve power meant I was able to drive at 7/10 or 8/10 in conditions where the 370Z might be at 3/10. I learned all about what the limits of the CRX were. My friends will probably not get the chance to do the same in their ubercars.
@Rust-MyEnemy: I know what you mean. I love my S60R. It is a wonderfully refined daily driver and can be sporty in advanced mode. However, I am just not comfortable pushing her to the limit. Maybe on a track somewhere, but certainly not on a public road.
@Rust-MyEnemy: I agree. And I think that is a problem even with entry cars that new drivers are likely to own. A Ford Focus can probably out-handle many a 1980's sports car (that'd be a fun comparison article). So drivers just think they can go as fast as their engines will propel them and they only have to turn the wheel (like a lot of SUV drivers in the snow). Older, slower cars are way more fun because they keep you thinking about what the car is trying to do. Cars with super high limits scare me because I think I won't know I'm in over my head until I'm going much faster. I'll take 'em old and low-adhesion, thanks.
@SlowMo (actually, there's no E on my R): It's just as well our friendly 'Lopnik scribblers seem to be able to drive a bit, and the write-ups are always worth reading.
I'd love to see a few reviews of older cars, just to get a bit of context. What does a SVO Mustang feel like compared to a Genesis Coupe? That sort of thing.
@Rust-MyEnemy: I think that would be great. Like a 2L Alfa GTV vs mid-90's Sentra SE-R vs ... hmmm well, some small-ish fun 2-door sedan from today... maybe a 1-series? I always remember when Grassroots Motorsports put a Honda Odyssey minivan on an autocross course and compared it to a 365 and an E-type. It lost at first but they put some better tires on it and the minivan beat 'em both.
Edited by SlowMo (actually, there's no E on my R) at 12/01/09 9:38 AM
SlowMo (actually, there's no E on my R) was starred
SlowMo (actually, there's no E on my R) was unstarred
It's nice to know that it drives and performs well, but I just can't get over the oddball looks it is sporting, and this is coming from a guy who likes the looks of the original 350Z coupes.
@Maxichamp: I'd say someone should do the same thing with the Mustang but I know that somone would accidentally "forget" the Mustang II and then the Foxbody would come as a complete shock to the system as the 1973 shrinks to about half it's size. #nissan370z
Seriously, though, I just right-clicked your (broken) images and selected "view image". The real version of what you were trying to post shows up in a new tab, and I can go look at it at my leisure. I used that trick all the time back when we had our special little "durrrr" code to embed images and people would screw it up. #nissan370z
@PowerTryp forever Minardi: I still say the Mustang II ultimately saved the Mustang in the long run. They're due for that kind of size reset again. #nissan370z
@TurboBrick [LIGIER]: I think a LOT of manufacturers and model lines are due for a size reset. I'd like to commend Audi and Mazda for their efforts at spearheading the diet program! #nissan370z
I have to say that any of these "pro" drivers would have their asses kicked by the entire field of an SCCA regional. The driving is garbage. Let me count the ways:
1) Riding the clutch under power. That's a no-no and it's exhibited by at least two of them.
2) "Threshold braking" ABS cars way below the actual level of grip.
3) Two-foot gaps between the cars, passing in midcorner instead of under braking,
4) Abysmal wiggle-steer, presumably to put some showmanship into the presentation by making these very easy-to-drive cars look scary.
5) Inability to left-foot brake.
Stuff like this demonstrates why Ralf Schumacher wiped the floor with Formula Nippon.
This "race" is no more indicative of the cars' abilities than a show-and-shine would be.
Hah! Check out the foot cam of the 370Z @ 6:45, looks like he goes to blip the throttle with his heel for a split second before remembering the synchrorev-match system.
@layabout returns:
Also interesting is how the 911 with PDK came in behind the Z, if I remember correctly, the 911's beat all the Z cars by a wide margin in the 370z v. 911 shootout.
The guy in the 911 could outbrake that Z all day long, he just didn't. Very early braking on the drivers part, it's almost as if they let it win.
Thanks, Jalopnik, for reminding me that I haven't watched any of my old BMI dvds on the new HD yet. I wasn't going to do anything on my day off anyway (other than haunt this website of course).
Andy Wallwhore- I know, everybody's funny, ...now you kinda funny too. was starred
Andy Wallwhore- I know, everybody's funny, ...now you kinda funny too. was unstarred
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11/30/09
11/30/09
-Hands free cigarette-
11/30/09
11/30/09
Yeah, they are, compared to an Infiniti or something, and I've not driven the 370z. But I have driven the 350, and;
The thing is, the limits are too damned high. There's loads of grip. Theres good weight distribution and masses of power. But unless you're really damn good (and I'm probably not) you don't really get involved other than aiming the car and pressing go.
Personally speaking, and I know I'm probably wrong here, a Drivers Car is one where you can feel the limits and know what to do when you reach them. Like an old Capri or Ford Mustang. Primitive suspension. Skinny tyres and too much power for the chassis.
That's where the fun is. Getting a "Whoa" moment at 60 and knowing how to catch it.
In this, I just know any "Whoa" moment would see me doing a Nick Hogan.
Give Nick a TR6 or a '68 Vette and maybe he'll learn something. Stick him in a Lambo with immense grip and power, and the soft tissue behind the helm starts to be a big problem.
11/30/09
[jalopnik.com]
Then in mine:
[jalopnik.com]
And I think it's a totally valid criticism. Luckily, there's an affordable, practical solution. Just buy a Hyundai Genesis Coupe, it makes all the same moves as the Z, but its limits are lower so it's more fun to drive in everyday conditions and for a wider range of drivers.
11/30/09
[jalopnik.com]
11/30/09
I just think it's a shame so many people have forgotten what driving is all about.
Keep up the good work by the way!
11/30/09
11/30/09
In fact you needed some skill to keep the damn thing pointing the right way.
11/30/09
11/30/09
Fantastic car and nice write up though.
11/30/09
12/01/09
I'd love to see a few reviews of older cars, just to get a bit of context. What does a SVO Mustang feel like compared to a Genesis Coupe? That sort of thing.
12/01/09
12/01/09
11/30/09
11/30/09
10/20/09
10/20/09
10/20/09
10/20/09
10/20/09
#nissan370z
10/20/09
@Maxichamp: Don't worry, I got ya covered. #nissan370z
10/20/09
10/20/09
@Maxichamp: I came in here to post exactly that same set. Let me see if my link works for embedding: if not, I'll just include the links in the post.
[jasontang.virtuality.org]
[wikicars.org] #nissan370z
10/20/09
10/20/09
10/20/09
Seriously, though, I just right-clicked your (broken) images and selected "view image". The real version of what you were trying to post shows up in a new tab, and I can go look at it at my leisure. I used that trick all the time back when we had our special little "durrrr" code to embed images and people would screw it up. #nissan370z
10/21/09
10/21/09
07/28/09
07/28/09
07/28/09
07/28/09
1) Riding the clutch under power. That's a no-no and it's exhibited by at least two of them.
2) "Threshold braking" ABS cars way below the actual level of grip.
3) Two-foot gaps between the cars, passing in midcorner instead of under braking,
4) Abysmal wiggle-steer, presumably to put some showmanship into the presentation by making these very easy-to-drive cars look scary.
5) Inability to left-foot brake.
Stuff like this demonstrates why Ralf Schumacher wiped the floor with Formula Nippon.
This "race" is no more indicative of the cars' abilities than a show-and-shine would be.
07/28/09
07/28/09
07/28/09
07/28/09
07/28/09
Also interesting is how the 911 with PDK came in behind the Z, if I remember correctly, the 911's beat all the Z cars by a wide margin in the 370z v. 911 shootout.
The guy in the 911 could outbrake that Z all day long, he just didn't. Very early braking on the drivers part, it's almost as if they let it win.
07/28/09
07/28/09