Jalopnik 
Enter your username and password.
Detroit, 4:01 PM
Sat Nov 21
29 posts in the last 24 hours
Tip your editors:
tips@jalopnik.com
Editor-in-Chief:
Ray Wert | Email | AIM
Road Test Editor:
Wes Siler | Email
Weekend Editor:
Murilee Martin | Email
Associate Editor - Houston:
Matt Hardigree
Associate Editor - Detroit:
Ben Wojdyla
Editor-at-Large:
Mike Spinelli
Contributors:
Mark Arnold
John Krewson | Email
Andy Didorosi
Original material is licensed under a Creative Commons License permitting non-commercial sharing with attribution.
02/21/09
02/22/09
02/21/09
02/21/09
02/21/09
I attended the AMC homecoming in Kenosha
last year and there was one just like that in
the car corral. Gorgeous example, looked almost
new.
02/21/09
02/21/09
Now, this series is a twice a week feature, and I currently have a lot more obscure iron in the works, from the 50's, 60's, yes even the 70's, 80's and newer. I can reveal that the next installment documents a car that was just discontinued recently, and was equipped with a V-8 producing over 300 HP. And that's the only hint you get.
Anyway, there is also another series I'm writing about, and it was inspired by one of Matt's Question of the Day pieces, who is your favorite automotive spokesperson. The first two are up, Joe Isuzu, and Ricardo Montalban. I have a treat for the eyes on Wednesday.
Once again, thanks for liking my work.
02/21/09
02/21/09
Cheers to you, man!
02/21/09
02/21/09
02/21/09
02/21/09
02/21/09
UDMan is truly one of those people I want to meet in person. If only to sit in the back booth of a smoky dive away from the pool tables and distractions with a Leinenkugel 1888 Bock and learn from him. The master teaching the disciple.
02/21/09
02/21/09
02/21/09
Hell, even if it was a Colony Park, I'd still have to have it. I'm a sucker for big cars with hidden headlights.
02/21/09
02/21/09
By the way, this is my homage to the late, great, Jalopnik Feature, the Jalopnik Fantasy Garage. When I approached Rob Einaudi (The Managing Editor for the CarDomain Blog) about this series, he was concerned that if I included voting, it would have been too close to the JFG.
02/21/09
Probably appropriate, too. The muscle car's home really is the parking lot, either parked for leaning and looking cool, or for doing burnouts.
Good feature, man. I'm always looking to broaden my automotive knowledge.
02/21/09
02/21/09
02/22/09
Has to be the Lotus Carlton. One day I shall have one.
02/22/09
02/21/09
I'm stunned, the term "muscle car" is used correctly.
Too often here and all over the web people call Corvettes, Camaros, Mustangs, Challengers and so on muscle cars which they definitely are not.
A muscle car was the family sedan that you would use as a base and then find the dealer codes for high performance options. The idea being a kind of stealth fast car which in turn came to mean muscle car because the family sedan suddenly had muscles.
I love talking to the old timers who know what real muscle cars were. Those cats are the best and are an untapped resource that more people need to talk to.
02/21/09
Awwwh, yeah.
02/21/09
02/21/09
I cringe whenever anyone calls a Mustang a muscle car.
02/21/09
02/21/09
02/21/09
jduffy is right that they aren't true "muscle cars" in the purest sense of the word. Muscle cars were generally variant of a mid-size family car with performance options. During the muscle car era the pony cars were getting some pretty outrageous engines that I think qualify those variants for muscle car status.
02/21/09
Things have changed.
02/21/09
@engineerd has a crush on Murilee:
@Deartháir retracts his calls for AutoInsider's death: So you're telling me the movies lied to me,fuckers! Next you'll say Superman's not real.
02/21/09
02/21/09
02/21/09
02/21/09
I feel like going on some British muscle car website to take the piss now,over here (rightly or wrongly) American car lovers think of the Mustang as the muscle car daddy. As you know American muscle cars are as rare as hens teeth over here.
02/21/09
NO! It's not true! You're... you-- YOU'RE LYING!
02/21/09
02/21/09
Burn the witch!
02/21/09
First, the term "muscle car" did not exist when those cars were new. They were called "supercars", if something. I don't know exactly when the term appeared from the top of my head, but it was much, much later.
Second, while you're true about pony cars not being the same thing as muscle cars, it's generally considered that Hi-Po pony cars WERE a muscle cars. So, 318 Challenger or six cylinder Mustang is NOT a muscle cars. But Mustang GT or Camaro SS definitely IS a muscle car.
02/21/09
Yes, I'm saying that and admonishing myself for correcting layabout earlier.
Let's just have a big group hug and call the matter settled, shall we?
02/21/09
02/21/09
02/21/09
02/21/09
02/21/09
The original, first-gen Mustang, Camaro and Barracuda were pony cars: Small sports car specific models with a range of engines from meek to decently sporty.
The purest definition of "muscle car" means an otherwise plebeian midsize car with a hot engine/trans/suspension option. The next broadest definition of "muscle car" expands to hot engines in any size "regular car" body.
Where things get more fuzzy is after '69 or '70, when the "pony cars" had grown bigger bodies and were receiving big-block power. At this point, they'd pretty much lost the compact spryness that made them pony cars, and they were just another body style wrapped around the same muscle car drivetrain.
65 Mustang = Pony Car
70 Mustang 429CJ = Probably more Muscle than Pony.
Under no circumstances is a Corvette a muscle car.
02/21/09
What do you think?
02/22/09
Corvettes are Sports Cars, pure and simple.
Muscle Car is a mid sized car with hi HP engine and a sport/trim package. Definitive Muscle Car, 1964-74 GTO.
I also cringe when kids thik all Mustangs are 'muscle cars', and I scream when the same "Net generation" calls ANY old RWD v8 car a 'muscle car'. They assume a 307 V8 2 speed Powerglide Chevelle 4 door, with vinyl top, is one! ARRRG!
02/22/09
I'll use that definition myself, but I'm not going to get upset with anyone who insists that a Mustang, Corvette, or even a 6.9 Benz is a muscle car. I'd say any rear-wheel-drive car, available in a lower-power sedate family-hauler/businessman version but stuffed with way more engine than necessary, ideally with stripes, wings, scoops, or some other decor that appeals to the 8-year-old in all of us... that's a muscle car. The real test should be how righteous it looks doing a burnout in a convenience-store parking lot, of course.
02/22/09
I like it fine for what it is, though. How can you go wrong with a peppy V8 in a relatively light, small car?
02/22/09
However. I would call the Shelby Cobra 427 a muscle car, even though it's a two seat open top sports car. For me, a muscle car has to be completely un-delicate, and about power first and foremost, with handling something of a side-issue. If it was a sports car it would have the perfect blend of power and handling. Not too much for the chassis, but enough that it counts when you clip that apex just right.
Shelby Cobra is basically an engine on wheels. That makes it a muscle car in my books.
The difference between muscle cars and sports cars is illustrated watching how the Mini Coopers and Lotus Cortinas were able to compete well with the Falcons and Camaros during the British Touring Car championships in the '60s.
02/21/09
02/21/09
As far as Javelins go, they're probably the coolest muscle cars going today.
02/22/09
02/22/09
But this reminds me of the first time I heard Black Sabbath, driving in a white Freightliner cabover through coastal Connecticut, with a frenetic driver who must have been on speed. Leaves an impression.
02/21/09
Hell yeah, Jim! Been watching this thanks to the smoking lounge.
02/21/09
02/21/09
All in favour, say aye.
02/21/09
02/21/09
02/21/09
Come, lad, join us in the Smoking Lounge
02/21/09
02/21/09
02/21/09
02/21/09
I've browsed through this series a few dozen times now, and I just love it. Fantastic job, man; just excellent work.
02/21/09
02/21/09
And... wait, secret handshake? Did I miss a memo on that?
02/21/09
To be fair, I think we were all well into the Jalopnik® brand Breakfast Scotch™ at that point.
02/21/09
02/21/09
Am I cool enough to say that I must have left my ID in my other wallet, and that my friends are waiting for me inside, so please please please just let me in, Mister Bouncer Guy?
02/21/09
02/21/09
02/21/09
Communists! I'm sure of it!
02/21/09
I'm a Socialist. Get it right.
02/21/09
02/21/09
02/21/09
That's what she said.
Yes, I'm drunk. I've been drunk most of the day.
12/29/08