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Detroit, 5:44 AM
Sun Dec 6
10 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of MOPAR-MAN MOPAR-MAN
    11/29/09

    In reply to Roll Cage Stress Test In 3... 2... 1...
    You are going to NEED a roll cage if you make one of these cold air kits. [www.youtube.com]
     Reply
    Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet promoted this comment Edited by MOPAR-MAN at 11/29/09 8:14 AM MOPAR-MAN was starred MOPAR-MAN was unstarred
    Image of Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet
    11/29/09

    @MOPAR-MAN: Looks like a regular afterburner there. I particularly appreciate how some of his air sensors have been bypassed. And I'm sure that's fireproof masking tape.
     Reply
    Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet was starred Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet was unstarred
    Image of FTGDWolverineEdition'09 FTGDWolverineEdition'09
    11/29/09

    In reply to Roll Cage Stress Test In 3... 2... 1...
    No wonder NHTSA introduced the new roof crush tests.
     Reply
    FTGDWolverineEdition'09 was starred FTGDWolverineEdition'09 was unstarred
    Image of Rupunzell Rupunzell
    11/29/09

    In reply to Roll Cage Stress Test In 3... 2... 1...
    I had a good look at this MGB post crash. The failed welds and torn body sheet metal where this bolt-in roll cage was installed got me very, very concerned. This driver was very lucky to have come out of this roll end-over crash without serious injury..

    While LeMons cars might be "cheap race heaps" there is no excuse to be "cheap" on safety. Every bit of safety equipment on all LeMons race cars must be held to the highest possible standard of safety..

    Every LeMons race team and driver must ask what are their drivers life worth... Was it worth saving those few bucks to install anything less than the best in safety for your LeMons racer if an airborne moment similar to what happened to this MGB killed the driver and cause injury to your fellow LeMons racers worth pinching pennies?

    LeMons racing is serious business, take every aspect of safety very, very seriously...
     Reply
    FTGDWolverineEdition'09 promoted this comment Rupunzell was starred Rupunzell was unstarred
    Image of KillerBRacer KillerBRacer
    11/29/09

    @Rupunzell: I had a good look at it too. BUT, to clear this up:

    A) Autopower roll cage. B) Experienced cage welder. C) Nothing cheap about it.

    I was cheap on the car, but spent a boatload on the best safety gear and resent your assumptions.

    The failures concern me too. It DID however survive THREE flips. I will take what was learned and improve the next cage.
     Reply
    Murilee Martin promoted this comment KillerBRacer was starred KillerBRacer was unstarred
    Image of Armand Armand
    11/29/09

    @Rupunzell: It's important to remember that, even if one of the welds did break and the mounting plate tried to go through the floor, the cage did its job. It wasn't pretty, and perhaps a welded-in (rather than bolted-in) cage would have fared a little better, but the cage protected the driver. This car took more punishment than any $500 piece of British tin should ever have to, and the driver walked away.

    With a few notable (and annoying) exceptions, people at LeMons DO take safety seriously. That's why safety items aren't included in the $500 limit.
     Reply
    Armand was starred Armand was unstarred
    Image of Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet
    11/29/09

    @KillerBRacer: Looks like the mounting plate on the wheel arch was undersized and couldn't spread the load out far enough. It wasn't a failure of the cage, but of the underlying sheet metal.

    Everything can always be stronger, but there are practical limits. I'd say the cage performed very well.

    But it points up an issue for folks using clapped out econocars - the underlying structure, and all it's finite element pieces, only have so much gumption, before they get stressed from twenty years of hard use and have largely rusted away.
     Reply
    Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet was starred Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet was unstarred
    Image of Rupunzell Rupunzell
    11/30/09

    @KillerBRacer:

    $$$$$ spent or "experienced cage welder" does not mean a safe cage. IMO, any bolt in cage is questionable.
    Bolt in means loading what is basically 0.035" thick sheet metal with several thousands pound of force in a small area. It will fail... the real questions is how bad will the failure be.

    You may resent what I say about the roll cage in that MGB, my point is do what ever it takes to make DAM SURE that roll cage is will not fail. You're lucky to have survived that triple flip without serious unjury, but what if the MGB flipped over more than that and the car ended up on track upside down and nailed by more than one other LeMons race car directly on the cage with torn sheet metal anchor plates and broken welds?

    Possible yes, and the results could have been less pretty.

    Again, what is your life worth?
     Reply
    Rupunzell was starred Rupunzell was unstarred
    Image of KillerBRacer KillerBRacer
    12/05/09

    @Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet: I was a little wary of Autopower's design using the wheelwell instead of the nearby structural rail, but you figure they know what they are doing eh? Guess not. The tear started at the bolt hole in thin sheetmetal. Ironically, the idea was to keep the cage portable so I could swap into another car if it got destroyed or remove it if we got the curse. It turns out I have to junk the cage and am rebuilding the car. Go figure. I'm having a well known pro builder do the next cage.
     Reply
    KillerBRacer was starred KillerBRacer was unstarred
    Image of Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet
    11/28/09

    In reply to Roll Cage Stress Test In 3... 2... 1...
    Good thing they give prizes for the best pirouette. That was impressive. As was the survivability of the cage, the car and the driver. I'm glad everything worked like it should.

    Next time you might want to tune your aero package a little more.
     Reply
    Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet was starred Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet was unstarred
    Image of Armand Armand
    11/28/09

    In reply to Roll Cage Stress Test In 3... 2... 1...
    The title "roll cage stress test" is a little more impressive after you see these two pictures:
     Reply
    Armand was starred Armand was unstarred
    Image of Armand Armand
    11/28/09

    @Armand: Oops.
    [www.flickr.com]
    and
    [www.flickr.com]
    I have a feeling last weekend's rollovers will quiet down the people who have been whining about the roll cage regulations on the LeMons forum.
     Reply
    Armand was starred Armand was unstarred
    Image of Jon Jon
    11/28/09

    @Armand: Youch. I've bent cages before, but never cracked one, or put one through the floor.
     Reply
    Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet promoted this comment Jon was starred Jon was unstarred
    Image of smalleyxb122 smalleyxb122
    11/28/09

    @Armand: I was patiently waiting for someone to make a Flight of the Bumblebee joke, but I see that you've got it covered with your picture captions. Well played.

    As for the pictures themselves: Yikes. Damned lucky that the car didn't take just one more tumble after the cage was compromised. I don't reckon that landing on the roof with an already cracked roll cage would have ended as well.

    Glad everyone is alright.
     Reply
    smalleyxb122 was starred smalleyxb122 was unstarred
    Image of Novaload Novaload
    11/28/09

    In reply to Roll Cage Stress Test In 3... 2... 1...
    You don't see cornering like that every day!
     Reply
    Novaload was starred Novaload was unstarred
    Image of underwear-ninja underwear-ninja
    11/28/09

    In reply to Roll Cage Stress Test In 3... 2... 1...
    Probably could have placed the dismount better. I give it a 6.
     Reply
    Novaload promoted this comment underwear-ninja was starred underwear-ninja was unstarred
    Image of that ain't the way to have fun, son that ain't the way to have fun, son
    11/28/09

    In reply to Roll Cage Stress Test In 3... 2... 1...
    Aw, look...it's doing cartwheels....
     Reply
    that ain't the way to have fun, son was starred that ain't the way to have fun, son was unstarred
    Image of UnlimitedRevs UnlimitedRevs
    11/16/09

    In reply to The De Tomaso Mangusta is The Bee’s Knees
    Am I the only one who noticed the Mangusta in Kill Bill Vol. 2? That made that movie for me. I spent the rest of the film after that looking forward to see it again.

    Sexy, sexy. #detomaso
     Reply
    Maxichamp promoted this comment UnlimitedRevs was starred UnlimitedRevs was unstarred
    Image of Maxichamp Maxichamp
    11/16/09


    @UnlimitedRevs: #detomaso
     Reply
    Maxichamp was starred Maxichamp was unstarred
    Image of UnlimitedRevs UnlimitedRevs
    11/16/09

    @Maxichamp: And I even like the color. #detomaso
     Reply
    UnlimitedRevs was starred UnlimitedRevs was unstarred
    Image of Graverobber Graverobber
    11/16/09

    In reply to The De Tomaso Mangusta is The Bee’s Knees
    The Mangusta was a transitionary car- more livable than the Vallelunga, but less so than the Pantera. They're very cramped inside, and a handful to drive at anything above the legal limit. The biggest problem with the car was the overall height forced the Ford 302 so low that the tranny bellhousing has about 3" of ground clearance making sleeping policemen positively fatal. #detomaso
     Reply
    Graverobber was starred Graverobber was unstarred
    Image of ColonelGentleman ColonelGentleman
    11/16/09

    In reply to The De Tomaso Mangusta is The Bee’s Knees
    Also whats the deal with the first photo?
    Photographer: Ok now do that thing people do to stretch their calves before a run. Perfect! You'll be a star! #detomaso
     Reply
    ColonelGentleman was starred ColonelGentleman was unstarred
    Image of Tanshanomi Tanshanomi
    11/16/09

    @ColonelGentleman: What most people don't know is that the original marketing slogan was "Mangusta: It makes women with neck atrophy who wear bullet bras walk by at a very quick pace." But the ad agency that came up with it was fired, and they ultimately decided to go in another direction: "Mangusta: If you don't like it, to hell with you." #detomaso
     Reply
    Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet promoted this comment Tanshanomi was starred Tanshanomi was unstarred
    Image of Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet
    11/16/09

    In reply to The De Tomaso Mangusta is The Bee’s Knees
    That's one engine window I could really get behind. Hey, Ray, get away from there! #detomaso
     Reply
    Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet was starred Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet was unstarred
    Image of Nitrous Oxide Nitrous Oxide
    11/16/09

    In reply to The De Tomaso Mangusta is The Bee’s Knees
    It looks nice, but is it all that counts? What about performance and handling? I'm not sure it compares to a Miura from the tidbits I've read. If I'm not mistaken more than several people have died in De Tomasso Panteras, I don't know about the Mangusta. #detomaso
     Reply
    Nitrous Oxide was starred Nitrous Oxide was unstarred
    Image of Mr_Sives_Remotoc Mr_Sives_Remotoc
    11/16/09

    @Nitrous Oxide: Miuras started to literally take off way before reaching their top speed. #detomaso
     Reply
    Mr.choppers - Delenda Carthago Est promoted this comment Mr_Sives_Remotoc was starred Mr_Sives_Remotoc was unstarred
    Image of Mr.choppers - Delenda Carthago Est Mr.choppers - Delenda Carthago Est
    11/16/09

    @Mr_Sives_Remotoc: The Mangusta was supposedly an evil beast, but looks certainly do matter when it comes to supercars.

    and Forza Isotta-Fraschini! #detomaso
     Reply
    Mr.choppers - Delenda Carthago Est was starred Mr.choppers - Delenda Carthago Est was unstarred
    Image of Maymar Maymar
    11/16/09

    @Nitrous Oxide: I know Tim Horton died in a Pantera.

    Still, in an era where even a 911 Turbo is easy to drive, there's something refreshing about a supercar that looks at you like it's trying to figure out what body part will be stabbed first. #detomaso
     Reply
    Maymar was starred Maymar was unstarred
    Image of Nitrous Oxide Nitrous Oxide
    11/16/09

    @Maymar: Ha! Ha! #detomaso
     Reply
    Nitrous Oxide was starred Nitrous Oxide was unstarred
    Image of AmishJohn AmishJohn
    11/16/09

    In reply to The De Tomaso Mangusta is The Bee’s Knees
    If ever there was a car that needed a nose spoiler...
    C'mon, are there no scales in Italy? Even the (apparently nearly impossible to fetch) spare is adding weight to the rear. I bet this thing handled like a shopping cart with a fat toddler in the seat and you standing on the lower crossbar. #detomaso
     Reply
    AmishJohn was starred AmishJohn was unstarred
    Image of Alfisted Alfisted
    11/16/09

    In reply to The De Tomaso Mangusta is The Bee’s Knees
    Quite the tribute to the age - a great combination of the points and curves that were so stylish at the time.

    Car isn't too bad, either. #detomaso
     Reply
    Alfisted was starred Alfisted was unstarred
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