I'm late to the game (stupid work), but gotta say: good show, guys.
I really hope that 40 miles isn't an "up to" ideal case. When this thing launches and most people see 20 miles on E-only, there's going to be some backlash.
I also hope GM's doing some snooping or speculating or something about where the Prius and Insight (and whoever else) are going to be 2-4 years after the Volt launches.
My fear is that GM's going to put all this development into the Volt 1.0 of 2010.5, but it will be usurped by something in 2012, with GM still 5 years away from Volt 2.0.
not related specifically to this post... but don't we even get a full page of posts these days? don't i remember days of recent yore when we had two or three pages' worth of posts?
@camp6ell: With nesting comments, you get about 50 to a page. I think people are getting better at replying to each other, which keeps them under the 20 "Conversations" per page.
I'm bummed that I missed this. I would have liked to ask why GM isn't using lean burn technology to increase the fuel economy of their vehicles. One example - [leanburnignition.com]
With the trend today of smaller and smaller margins of profit in car sales, how can GM justify killing off brands (Pontiac and Saturn being the main concerns) that would let the company "compartmentalize" it's world-cars into segment groups (eg. Pontiac for sportscars, Saturn for your econoboxes and entry-vehicles) and effectively leverage it's global holdings into a viable production structure? Put tersely, what IS GM's plan regarding the kill-off of Pontiac/Saturn and it's effort to globalize it's car offerings?
As for globalizing its offerings.. Saturn and Pontiac dont mean anything outside of the U.S
And the cars are already in other parts of the world.
As for more badge engineering... Check out the Holden Volt, the Opel Ampera and even Caddy is getting one.
So as you see.. there is no difference in one lump of crap from GM.. as long as their is some cheap shit badge on the hood or tail of that dirtbucket, do ya know its really not worth shit.
@Accordforall: I agree that GM is one of the WORST offenders for badge-engineering, but badges DO mean something to the average consumer. You couldn't simply bring Opel to the states and do as well in the entry segments as Saturn does. Nor could you do it with Holden and Pontiac. I agree that branding needs to MEAN something again, but doing away with it isn't the answer. Compartmentalizing into brand identities IS the answer, and that's why I wanted to have the guy from GM answer it- I'd like to hear about GM's plans to take the brands it has and turn them into profitable, compelling, identifiable offerings.
Have you ever considered promoting the Volt through a racing series?, an "Electrifying Super Fun Cup". With loudspeakers around the circuit playing prerecorded V10 Sounds?
@elargentino: That's actually a really good idea. F1's always pushed the limits of car tech (say thanks the next time you use ABS on an icy road). I think it was Maximum Bob that posited an all-electric race series would do more to help push the technology than all the federal rebates in the world.
Has GM considered building a single person enclosed vehicle, with both performance and economy as the base engineering requirements? And if not, why hasn't such a concept entered mainstream production? Unquestionably, there is a market for this kind of commuter vehicle.
@DoctorNine: The market isn't big enough. Look at Smart. Other than the fact it's horribly overpriced, it's just not desirable to have a vastly compromised car. Single seater cars will never work in the US.
@DoctorNine: I agree that there's a market, but I don't think it's a profitable one. It would take many millions of dollars, for R&D and marketing. There just aren't enough folks outside of SF or NYC that would be willing to lay down the cash that would make it worthwhile. Not to mention the fact that it would have to pass car collision regulations, which would result in it being pound-for-pound a far worse option than just getting a motorcycle or something along the lines of a Polo or Smart.
@War2d2 - Looking For a Star...: I was thinking of something with a small turbodiesel or direct injected gasoline mill of between 600 and 1200cc. This could be placed in a four-wheel chassis with the wheelbase of a SMART, but lower, much lower. Since there would be large crush zones (being a one seater) it should actually be able to pass crash testing more easily that the SMART does. Especially if those areas were metal-skinned polypropylene bladders, shrink fitted to the most aerodynamic shape. Very very light, yet resistant to puncture, and strong enough to absorb very heavy impacts. Almost monocoque. Subframes only for mounting engine, etc. Because this type of construction is very light, it would even work with electric propulsion. And being enclosed, it would be weatherproof, which turns of people who won't ride cycles in the rain/snow. I really think it could work. Without new ideas, the domestics are gonna die the death.
1) If it's small enough to be a one-person car, but big enough to have crush zones all around, then people will wonder why something with room for 2 or 3 only has 1 seat.
2) The 1-2 seater market is already pretty well served by motorcycles.
3) (This is the big one) I think in the US market, there's a "floor" to what can really sell in the new car market. Smarts are overpriced, but even if they weren't, they'd compete with very nice 2-3 year old Civics or Corollas.
For most people, "tiny" isn't that much of a feature, and the marginal increase in mileage over "real cars" isn't going to justify it either.
Having said all of that, I'd love for the Smart Roadster to make a comeback. I do a 45mi one-way commute, all on 80mph freeways. If someone took the "city car" idea and turned it on its side to make a "super-commuter", I'd be interested. 45-50mpg at 80mph, in a remotely sporty package, please?
@Mad_Science: About 75% of all the cars I see during my morning commute are exactly as described - fully-enclosed, crashworthy, and single seaters.
No wait - I meant there's only one seat actually occupied. My bad!
I also have a long commute - it's 23.2mi door-to-door for my leg, then the wife takes the car the rest of the way, for about a 45mi total for her part. She has to shuttle around during the day, too, but I have access to a company vehicle. We would be amply served by a two-seater, but dang if the Smart, for all its ittybittiness, doesn't get merely fair mileage. I'd do as well to get a Fit, and have seats for kids on the weekends.
03/19/09
I really hope that 40 miles isn't an "up to" ideal case. When this thing launches and most people see 20 miles on E-only, there's going to be some backlash.
I also hope GM's doing some snooping or speculating or something about where the Prius and Insight (and whoever else) are going to be 2-4 years after the Volt launches.
My fear is that GM's going to put all this development into the Volt 1.0 of 2010.5, but it will be usurped by something in 2012, with GM still 5 years away from Volt 2.0.
03/18/09
03/19/09
I forget what the pre-nest page limit was...100?
03/18/09
Sucks that it's going to take so long to get the Cruze to market. I'm hoping it eats the Civic.
03/18/09
03/19/09
03/18/09
03/18/09
...And I personally requested 'Puppetry of the Penis', but for some reason Ray declined to oblige...
03/19/09
03/18/09
03/18/09
The_J0k3r: Why so serious?
03/18/09
Wankelin'
03/18/09
As for globalizing its offerings..
Saturn and Pontiac dont mean anything outside of the U.S
And the cars are already in other parts of the world.
As for more badge engineering...
Check out the Holden Volt, the Opel Ampera and even Caddy is getting one.
So as you see.. there is no difference in one lump of crap from GM.. as long as their is some cheap shit badge on the hood or tail of that dirtbucket, do ya know its really not worth shit.
03/18/09
03/19/09
03/18/09
03/18/09
03/18/09
03/18/09
03/18/09
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03/18/09
03/18/09
...fun till your friends catch you riding one
03/18/09
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03/19/09
1) If it's small enough to be a one-person car, but big enough to have crush zones all around, then people will wonder why something with room for 2 or 3 only has 1 seat.
2) The 1-2 seater market is already pretty well served by motorcycles.
3) (This is the big one) I think in the US market, there's a "floor" to what can really sell in the new car market. Smarts are overpriced, but even if they weren't, they'd compete with very nice 2-3 year old Civics or Corollas.
For most people, "tiny" isn't that much of a feature, and the marginal increase in mileage over "real cars" isn't going to justify it either.
Having said all of that, I'd love for the Smart Roadster to make a comeback. I do a 45mi one-way commute, all on 80mph freeways. If someone took the "city car" idea and turned it on its side to make a "super-commuter", I'd be interested. 45-50mpg at 80mph, in a remotely sporty package, please?
03/19/09
No wait - I meant there's only one seat actually occupied. My bad!
I also have a long commute - it's 23.2mi door-to-door for my leg, then the wife takes the car the rest of the way, for about a 45mi total for her part. She has to shuttle around during the day, too, but I have access to a company vehicle. We would be amply served by a two-seater, but dang if the Smart, for all its ittybittiness, doesn't get merely fair mileage. I'd do as well to get a Fit, and have seats for kids on the weekends.
03/18/09
03/18/09