Wes, while I normally have to agree with your reviews, this one seems a bit off target. Trying to evaluate any small car with an automatic, is like dancing with someone with a cast and crutches. Sure, you CAN do it, but it's not going to give you a very accurate approximation of what their real capabilities might be. You were right about staying away from the DSG. But not about the small TDI's in general, and their hooning potential. Dead wrong about that.
@DoctorNine: I think i made that point pretty clearly. The car's great, the transmission isn't. My biggest worry with it is that the DSG isn't being presented as an enthusiast option like in the GTI etc, it's there in place of an auto and behave like an auto it does not. For you and me, the DSG would be fine, if slightly annoying. For Jared from the Subway ads, it could possibly cause a fatal heart attack.
@Wes Siler: ".. For Jared from the Subway ads, it could possibly cause a fatal heart attack..."
I know he's lost weight, but I derive much pleasure from watching obese people try to drive small cars. Yes, I know it's childish. I remember when the Mazda MX5 came out. There was this 350 lb administrative secretary in the building where I worked, who bought a brand spanking new red one. She could get into it, only by turning kind of sideways, and falling inside, until she wedged herself into the driver's seat. One day I'm looking out my window above the roadway past our building, and a see her out for a quick drive (to pick up lunch of course). Top down, sunny day; any girl's dream lunch break. Just then, a hooptie Impala swerves in front of her, because she is driving her sports car timidly, and leaving way too much space between her and the car in front. She tries to swerve out of the way to avoid hitting him, but her belly pannus is covering half the steering wheel, and prevents the emergency move. It was caught in there somehow. So she bounces down on the belly/wheel and then back up like a jack in the box. Her little Miata is ruined by the massive Impala rear chrome, and he drives on. Leaving her with a bloody nose, steam spewing out of the front of the MX5 with less than 100 miles on it, and a crowd of bystanders, who all know her, paralyzed by the event, but not wanting to actually be so crass as to laugh out loud.
It sounds like compared to the DSG, and given what a good car it is, it's worth learning to drive a stick just to own one, if you're buying a new car anyway.
Hey! I spent 4 nights last week cleaning my handgun and rifle after shooting on Sunday. There's nothing wrong with a clean weapon! I AM OFFENDED. Having clean guns is like taking car of your car, if you want your life to depend on something, you had better take care of it!
@jodark: /not really offended, just manufacturing offense because you happened to touch the demographic of people who clean their guns and it seemed like the Jalop thing to do lately.
You know, on the VW website, the manual transmission is listed as an option for these cars. The dealer order sheet I looked at a few months back when I was considering one showed it, too...
That would solve most of your problems with this little oil burner.
You eat every meal at Mickey D's and your idea of automotive excellence is a late '90s Buick. You think diesel is the fuel of communists. The idea of your car doing anything other than slushing its way slowly up to highway speed questions your fundamental understanding of the world. The idea of a Palin/Limbaugh ticket in 2010 has you up at night polishing your guns with excitement. You're the average driver and, like all your peers, you've subconsciously learned to fear any car that requires any thought from its driver. You know how to drive stick.
Is that to say you shouldn't buy this particular car? Because I was under the impression that the only worthwhile configuration was with the manual instead of the DSG.
I wonder what the folks at tdiclub.com would say about that. If you don't mind losing 3-5mpg, you can easily get another 30-40hp and 80-100 lb-ft with a chip (injectors and exhaust can help).
Also, in you cargo pic, I'm curious if the seat bottoms fold up before the seatbacks fold down. Two previous V-dubs had that configuration, so you're selling the cargo area short by a few cubic feet. Just fyi--what you showed appears to be the quicker way, but not the complete way.
@Ash78: I've yet to see an acne'd teen from Kansas trying to put a Folgers can on one. You can tune any car, but that doesn't make every car a tuner car.
Yeah, the seat bottoms fold up, but I was too lazy to do it in that picture, it's kind of a bitch, you have to scoot the front seats all the way forward.
@Wes Siler: You can tune any car, but that doesn't make every car a tuner car.
Touche, touche.
However, I will submit to you that the WTCC and LeMans have a pretty good tdi showing. It's just that tdi hasn't caught on as a sporty option here. Granted, factory tuning is pretty sluggish. In Europe, they do sell basically a GTI tdi (called GT TDI, just to confuse us all)
I saw a MkIV Golf tdi about a month ago that was fully done up in an R32 bodykit. But apart from that, I've never seen much adornment on a US tdi except for the usual NASA bumper sticker or "Mathematicians do it with pi" or something else along those lines.
"The idea of a Palin/Limbaugh ticket in 2010 has you up at night polishing your guns with excitement."
A Palin/Jindal ticket is more interesting (Limbaugh would never run for office, especially a No. 2 spot).
Also, I think technogeeks of a certain style would enjoy this car very much for the DSG. Sure, it doesn't have all the bells and whistles of a BMW or MB, but that DSG is pretty cool.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go finish cutting the grass then polish my guns and clutch on to my Bible.
@engineerd: I agree. I could think of other people to run with Palin than Limbaugh that would get me interested, and possibly vote for. I think Palin would be less of a "bimbo" who knows nothing when she wasn't under
And by "clutch on to my bible" you mean watch the Red Wings lose?
@Sir BTLFED Der Lederhosen: Where did the middle of my post go? That's supposed to say "when she wasn't under McCain as basically just a figurehead for the female vote."
@long_live_the_E36: Yeah, it doesn't do an awful lot. Despite the lack of paddles, the tranny's OKish in manual mode, but I don't think that'll matter to McDonald's patrons.
@Sir BTLFED Der Lederhosen: Palin's a lot smarter than people give her credit for. That's why the constant attacks on her intellect. The left knew that if they could convince people she was a "bimbo" then they had little to worry about. They succeeded.
Many of the statement attributed to Palin she never said or were taken way out of context.
Read some of Camille Paglia's stuff about Palin. Paglia is politically a polar opposite, but she really went after people's mischaracterizing and defamation of Palin. [www.salon.com]
@engineerd: Palin always struck me as not necessarily dumb, but definitely out of her element...kinda like GWB.
Both would be fine in roles where personal connections, loyalty and charisma matter more than astute judgment and a strong grip on history/economics/political science.
I'd be stoked to have either as a neighbor, but not as president.
"Leave it in auto and the transmission is was too eager to upshift, spoiling acceleration immensely. It's a torquey diesel, not a high-revving gasoline engine; rapid-fire upshifts are not what's needed here."
Best actual torque/power curve I could find in 5 minutes of Googling:
which scientifically proves that whoever tested this Jetta TDI and wrote part quoted above (and similarly wrong bit at the end of "Gearbox" section) has no understanding of diesel engines ...
What is true from the quote is "It's a torquey diesel, not a high-revving gasoline engine". And, as any trucker will tell you, it is pointless to rev' diesel high as its torque quickly disappears. High revving gas engines - yes, shift as late as you can. Diesel - ignore that instinct, shift early and often and you'll get better acceleration. Same as apparently transmission wanted to do.
Challenge for testers: measure actual acceleration of Jetta TDI when RPM's are kept in low 2000's range (quick shifts) vs. letting engine rev' to gasoline standard "red mark"... Report results... :)
@dusanmal: We're not talking about revving it to the redline. An engine's flexibility is measured in the distance between its peak torque and peak power, those dyno graphs show a very flexible engine. In "D" or "S" the transmission won't let you keep it between 1,800 and 3,500 rpm, it shifts all over the place instead of allowing you exploit that flexibility.
06/05/09
I think you're missing the point. Why not compare it to other compact wagon/hatches?
WRX (or Impreza or Outback Sport)
Mazda3
Matrix
Volvo V50
Audi A3
I suppose you could also consider all manner of compact CUVs, too (Escape, Tiguan, CRV, Rav4, Patriot)
In my mind, most buyers would be looking for this form-factor, and the great mileage is a feature exclusive to VW.
06/05/09
WTF is going on with that, anyway?
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I know he's lost weight, but I derive much pleasure from watching obese people try to drive small cars. Yes, I know it's childish. I remember when the Mazda MX5 came out. There was this 350 lb administrative secretary in the building where I worked, who bought a brand spanking new red one. She could get into it, only by turning kind of sideways, and falling inside, until she wedged herself into the driver's seat. One day I'm looking out my window above the roadway past our building, and a see her out for a quick drive (to pick up lunch of course). Top down, sunny day; any girl's dream lunch break. Just then, a hooptie Impala swerves in front of her, because she is driving her sports car timidly, and leaving way too much space between her and the car in front. She tries to swerve out of the way to avoid hitting him, but her belly pannus is covering half the steering wheel, and prevents the emergency move. It was caught in there somehow. So she bounces down on the belly/wheel and then back up like a jack in the box. Her little Miata is ruined by the massive Impala rear chrome, and he drives on. Leaving her with a bloody nose, steam spewing out of the front of the MX5 with less than 100 miles on it, and a crowd of bystanders, who all know her, paralyzed by the event, but not wanting to actually be so crass as to laugh out loud.
So no. Jared. No. You are indeed correct.
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/not really offended, just manufacturing offense because you happened to touch the demographic of people who clean their guns and it seemed like the Jalop thing to do lately.
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That would solve most of your problems with this little oil burner.
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So, about 80% of America.
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You know how to drive stick.
Is that to say you shouldn't buy this particular car? Because I was under the impression that the only worthwhile configuration was with the manual instead of the DSG.
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I wonder what the folks at tdiclub.com would say about that. If you don't mind losing 3-5mpg, you can easily get another 30-40hp and 80-100 lb-ft with a chip (injectors and exhaust can help).
Also, in you cargo pic, I'm curious if the seat bottoms fold up before the seatbacks fold down. Two previous V-dubs had that configuration, so you're selling the cargo area short by a few cubic feet. Just fyi--what you showed appears to be the quicker way, but not the complete way.
06/05/09
Yeah, the seat bottoms fold up, but I was too lazy to do it in that picture, it's kind of a bitch, you have to scoot the front seats all the way forward.
06/05/09
I don't know, there was some VW love in "Fast and the Furious", no?
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06/05/09
Touche, touche.
However, I will submit to you that the WTCC and LeMans have a pretty good tdi showing. It's just that tdi hasn't caught on as a sporty option here. Granted, factory tuning is pretty sluggish. In Europe, they do sell basically a GTI tdi (called GT TDI, just to confuse us all)
I saw a MkIV Golf tdi about a month ago that was fully done up in an R32 bodykit. But apart from that, I've never seen much adornment on a US tdi except for the usual NASA bumper sticker or "Mathematicians do it with pi" or something else along those lines.
06/05/09
A Palin/Jindal ticket is more interesting (Limbaugh would never run for office, especially a No. 2 spot).
Also, I think technogeeks of a certain style would enjoy this car very much for the DSG. Sure, it doesn't have all the bells and whistles of a BMW or MB, but that DSG is pretty cool.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go finish cutting the grass then polish my guns and clutch on to my Bible.
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06/05/09
OK, you were right and I was wrong...about that. I'm still right about the Palin/Limbaugh thing.
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And by "clutch on to my bible" you mean watch the Red Wings lose?
Go Penguins!
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Just saying.
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Many of the statement attributed to Palin she never said or were taken way out of context.
Read some of Camille Paglia's stuff about Palin. Paglia is politically a polar opposite, but she really went after people's mischaracterizing and defamation of Palin. [www.salon.com]
06/05/09
Both would be fine in roles where personal connections, loyalty and charisma matter more than astute judgment and a strong grip on history/economics/political science.
I'd be stoked to have either as a neighbor, but not as president.
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"Leave it in auto and the transmission is was too eager to upshift, spoiling acceleration immensely. It's a torquey diesel, not a high-revving gasoline engine; rapid-fire upshifts are not what's needed here."
Best actual torque/power curve I could find in 5 minutes of Googling:
[forums.tdiclub.com]
which scientifically proves that whoever tested this Jetta TDI and wrote part quoted above (and similarly wrong bit at the end of "Gearbox" section) has no understanding of diesel engines ...
What is true from the quote is "It's a torquey diesel, not a high-revving gasoline engine". And, as any trucker will tell you, it is pointless to rev' diesel high as its torque quickly disappears. High revving gas engines - yes, shift as late as you can. Diesel - ignore that instinct, shift early and often and you'll get better acceleration. Same as apparently transmission wanted to do.
Challenge for testers: measure actual acceleration of Jetta TDI when RPM's are kept in low 2000's range (quick shifts) vs. letting engine rev' to gasoline standard "red mark"... Report results... :)
06/05/09