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Detroit, 9:14 PM
Tue Dec 8
28 posts in the last 24 hours
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11/11/09
Desoto. Where religion meets cars. Properly. #licenseplates
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#licenseplates
11/11/09
Here's where religion + cars go together. #licenseplates
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Here's where car + religion makes sense. #licenseplates
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[www.youtube.com]
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That said, if you're going to allow clutter onto the plates why not go the other way? If you allow plates for Christians then you have to offer plates for other religions, atheists and agnostics included? Maybe we'll end up with such a parade of crap on license plates that we'll finally revert to simple, clean designs. #licenseplates
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@RandRace: Or, just move to New Hampshire. #licenseplates
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No wonder the NYTimes is going under, it has some of the stupidest readers in the nation. That quoted phrase is found no where in any founding documents.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" Seems the brilliant Federal Judiciary and legal reporters at the NYTimes forgot about that extra clause in there. Instead of making that plate illegal, why not just let other faiths make their own plate? Seems that acknowledging more freedom is the way to go here and in all situations.
And way to crank up those page-views, Wes ;)
11/11/09
And the context of that law is really quite simple to anyone who has half a clue about history. What would eventually become the United States of America was a haven for freedom of religion, as people were allowed to practice whatever religion they so desired without fear of being persecuted by a government that had established a legal, national religion, as had been the case across Europe and other parts of the world; Hence the phrasing:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"
Meaning this: Congress could make no law whatsoever regarding religion in any form. As this is a federal law written into the Constitution, the states are also bound to follow it. This means that the state can do nothing that implies favoring any religion in any way, including issues license plates that are representative of the state, and therefore the government, that contain religious overtones.
This was done specifically to protect freedom of speech, which you and others incorrectly imply is at stake here.
Do you want to indicate support for a particular religion? Get a bumper sticker that, when applied to your car, is representative of you and only you, not any government body. There's nothing that the big bad government can do to stop you, as, once again, the government may make no law regarding religion in any way, nor can it favor any one religion in any way whatsoever.
Thank you, come again. #licenseplates
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Edit: er, what they said.
11/11/09
But then, I'm one of those 'stupid readers' who checks out the Times almost daily, so my opinion isn't to be trusted. #licenseplates
11/11/09
"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion. "
-- John Adams
"Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined, and imprisoned, yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites. "
-- Thomas Jefferson
"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."
-- Thomas Jefferson
"The morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State. "
--James Madison
The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.
-- Bejamin Franklin
Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifiying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory to itself than this thing called Christianity.
-- Thomas Paine
The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession.
--Abraham Lincoln
I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.
-- Susan B. Anthony
I hold that in this country there must be complete severance of Church and State; that public moneys shall not be used for the purpose of advancing any particular creed; and therefore that the public schools shall be nonsectarian and no public moneys appropriated for sectarian schools.
-- Theodore Roosevelt
Leave the matter of religion to the family altar, the church, and the private schools, supported entirely by private contributions. Keep the church and the state forever separated.
-- Ulysses S. Grant #licenseplates
11/11/09
Man, that context must hurt.
Also, how do you feel about the listing of a soldier's religion on their dog-tags? Because its the same damned thing. #licenseplates
11/11/09
Your first attempt at arguing me just completely supported my point. Also, the issuing of a license plate is not considered to be a "personal contract with the government".
As for dog tags listing the religion of the soldier, that was done to protect the freedom of religion of that soldier, and the freedom of that soldier to be buried according to the rituals of the religion of their choice. That would be a difficult thing to do if the chaplain was unaware of the soldier's religion. Or maybe you didn't notice the fact that there are no specific Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc. chaplains in the military.
On the bright side, you do get an "A" for effort. #licenseplates
11/11/09
Believe me, dear Sir: there is not in the British empire a man who more cordially loves a union with Great Britain than I do. But, by the God that made me, I will cease to exist before I yield to a connection on such terms as the British Parliament propose; and in this, I think I speak the sentiments of America.
—Thomas Jefferson, November 29, 1775
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Who is that darned Creator refering to? It's refering to some form of Diety. And I never made the claim that this country was a "Christian Nation." But it is very clear that it is founded by Deists, meaning that everyone who signed the Constitution believed in some form of higher power or being.
Also, this license plate issue isn't establishing a relgion, but acknowledging it. #licenseplates
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@pauljones: How is it not a personal contract between you and the government? It's a contract that you have met the vehicular requirements to drive that vehicle on public roads.
And like I said, government establishing a religion involves the government forcing you to adhere to it. In this case it is permitting someone to express their personal view should they choose to do so.
Actually, yes there are religion specfic Chaplins in the military. Hurp Durp.
[www.militaryclothing.com]
[www.militaryclothing.com]
[www.militaryclothing.com] #licenseplates
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Also, "In God We Trust" was not printed on US currency until almost a hundred years after the country was founded. Similarly, the phrase "Under God" in the pledge of allegiance until the middle of the 20th century.
@jodark: It is not considered a contract, and even it were, the government would still not be able to do anything that in any way even implies that it has a connection to any religion of any form.
Also, what you fail to understand about military chaplains, is that while they may be one particular background or another, they are fluent in all major religious backgrounds, and serve as spiritual leaders to soldiers of all religions. There is a reason that you don't see a rabbi, a priest, a buddhist monk, and Islamic cleric deployed with every unit.
@scrout76: The only dumbass here is you. If the government were allowed to connect themselves with a specific religion in any way, that would be tantamount to the government endorsing that religion. That would be defined as the oppression of religious freedom, as it would place undue emphasis on one particular religion as a state religion, much to the detriment of other religions.
As for the founding fathers, all of them had their roots in Christianity, but were in practice deists. They did have every intention of separating God from government, as that was one of the primary lessons learned from the course of European history at that time.
Check your history books again, and work on your reading comprehension.
@Buster Brew: I understand where you are coming from.
As you point out, special edition license plates are akin to paid billboard advertising, whether it be the church or the Special Olympics
Note, however, that the Special Olympics, bicycling, and Georgia Tech are not religious institutions. As such it is allowed under the Constitution, because they cannot in any way be interpreted as being endorsing of a religion, which the Constitution forbids.
Whether or not the state is actually endorsing the religion by allowing such a special edition plate is immaterial; all that matters is that if there is some possibility that it can be interpreted as such by someone, they cannot do it according to the Constitution. #licenseplates
11/11/09
And yes, the Pledge of Allegiance at present has the same problem, and it has been a live debate for almost fifty years, and shows no sign of slowing. #licenseplates
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NC has had plates censored also. "First in Freedom" was offensive to some hand wringer, so NC coveted the Wright brothers success, based on their long history of work in Ohio. "First in Flight" replaced the horror of the celebration of human freedom from oppressive governments.
I find it funny how intolerant liberals cite the first amendment as a reason to deny free speech.
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[www.bjcpa.org] #licenseplates
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This is about a state government promoting a particular religion. The GOVERNMENT doesn't get to have free speech.
What if this was another religion? What if there was a nice moon and star with the phrase "Allah Protect Me" written below it? I mean, we have many Muslims in the United States...
The point is that this was not some intolerant liberal Nazi-ing your socialism, this is exactly what the First Amendment states, and was put in place for. That's why the exact same plate got struck down in Florida last year. #licenseplates
11/11/09
Unlike how you sound I am tolerant, If I guy wants to drop to his knees next to me and pray to allah or a lady sitting next to me on a park bench wants to pray the rosary that's ok. Just don't force me to do it and we'll get along fine. #licenseplates
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