I'm happy to see more diesels in the US, but unless someone starts marketing them down range a bit, then i just don't get it. You're seriously advocating the 335d? It's $50K without options; over $60K to get it nice, and even then, you wind up with an automatic that won't keep pace with the 335i. Nice torque; that's cool. But the entire point of the plant is fuel economy. Let me have the 2.0l diesel with a stick in a light weight 3 series for less than $35K!
Why no LS9? That's a fantastic engine. Driven gently, it delivers better fuel mileage in the 'Vette than my Subie ever does. And yes, I drive the Subie gently too. Damn brick.
Hyundai's V8 is nice and all, but the pair of cylinders closest to the front of the car don't work and play well with others. They'd rather be in a Chinese car.
The torque range on the ecoBoost blows me away.
(Project lead) "I want 350 ft-lbs of torque. Can you do that?"
(Engineer) "Sure. Where on the rev range do you want it?"
(Waves indistinctly) "Anywhere."
(Engineer shrugs) "Okey-dokey."
Also: +1 for timing chains.
The VW 2.0 Turbo is a fun engine. I drove it. It drives bigger than it is. Yowzah.
A Chevy getting 32mpg used to be impressive. Now it's Chevy's sport-cute delivering 32mpg, and it's not as small as the sport-cutes used to be. Frankly, I'm damned impressed. My car won't do that, not even close, and it doesn't make nearly as much power, either.
Damned impressed.
@Lost in the age of Aerostar: I was hoping someone would post that. You open the hood and find...a nest of mating metal snakes! Who wouldn't want that in the engine room? Animal lust, harnessed for your personal use!
@DoctorNine: When did designers and the public start saying "Like, eeeew, engines are GROSS! Can you like, cover that hideous thing up with a giant flat slab of pretty plastic?"
Or is there some reason that manufacturers want it to seem like a total mystery as to what is powering the car? "Hey, what's under there? DONT LOOK! It's a genie and he is f*cking angry."
Dear car makers: I (we) think engines look cool and we would like to see them. Nobody likes your stupid plastic covers, so stop putting them on. What, is this the victorian era of underhood design? Next thing you know there will just be another hood under the hood when you open the hood.
Anyone who buys a 3-series with an engine other than the diesel is sick in the head? Those are strong words when, by most accounts, the pairing of gas I6s (remember, one's twin-turboed) and the M's V8 are pretty stellar engines, and you can get it with a stick. I mean, as an engine, BMW's diesel makes me weak in the knees (425lb-ft can do strong things to me, especially at 23/36mpg), but the way you have to take it isn't perfect. Now, there's no other engine you should take in an X5 (although you shouldn't take an X5).
I am disappointed in the ecoweenieism that picked the naturally aspirated Ecotec over the direct injected turbocharged version (which also makes more power and torque than VW's equivalent).
@Maymar: Not to really disagree with you as the I6 and the I6 TT are absolutely stellar... but a friend of mine just picked up a 335d and took me for a drive recently. The way the torque pushes you back in the seat is mind numbing...
@VeeArrrSix: Like I said, I agree, it's a fantastic engine, and I don't dispute its place on this list. I'm just disputing the idea that there's something wrong with picking any of the other engines the 3-series offers - although, I would completely rock a diesel 3 with a 6-speed (I'd take a smaller engine if I had to).
Remember when this list used be about all-around good performance and engineering? When stuff like Buick's 3800, Cadillac's Northstar and the Nissan VQ series made the list every year?
I'm not sure when Ward's fell victim to the same eco-weenie crap that's taking over the whole fucking world, but I'm sure as hell am not happy about it. I love turbo-fours, diesels and direct injection as much as anybody, I don't know how much longer I can deal with all this plug-in-hybrid, evil man-made carbon emissions will kill us all bullshit that's progressively destroying the car hobby I so dearly love.
If FromaBuick6 has to watch one more Chevy commercial, he's going to punch Howie Long in the face was starred
If FromaBuick6 has to watch one more Chevy commercial, he's going to punch Howie Long in the face was unstarred
@spuy767: I know! How couldn't you? The VQ just keeps getting better and better. It's equally brilliant in FWD Altimas, the Z car and luxury Infinitis.
And the 3800, despite being a 40+ year old pushrod, it was easily one of, if not the best V6s on the market up until 2002-2003 or so. 200 horsepower (24o w/supercharger!) and 30 MPG on regular unleaded seemed unbelievable in the '90s, but Buick pulled it off. It wasn't until Nissan and Honda started one-upping each other that the 3800 finally stopped being competitive (and I can't believe GM tried replacing it with that "High Feature" garbage). Still, there's plenty of recent-vintage, 3800-equipped big GM sedans that make good beater highway cruisers. Not bad for a once-unloved, uneven-firing, sawed-off Fireball V8.
If FromaBuick6 has to watch one more Chevy commercial, he's going to punch Howie Long in the face was starred
If FromaBuick6 has to watch one more Chevy commercial, he's going to punch Howie Long in the face was unstarred
If FromaBuick6 has to watch one more Chevy commercial, he's going to punch Howie Long in the face was starred
If FromaBuick6 has to watch one more Chevy commercial, he's going to punch Howie Long in the face was unstarred
We shouldn't get too worked up about performance numbers, down the road there likely will be "Si" or "Type R" variant. CR-Z is aimed as a mass market vehicle so the base JDM version should be close to the Insight in terms of power output.
It looks to me the engine is based on a DBA-GE8/GE9 engine mated to an IMA system; which they seem to refer to as the DAA-ZF1. Mugen gets 150ps out the DBA-GE8 and the GE9 makes closer to 120ps in Fit RS, not to mention that the IMA system is fairly modular and could be mated to other more powerful Honda engines as practicality permits.
If this car gets 58mpg in JC08 testing procedures, the car should be within 1-2mpg of the Insight which gets 61mpg on the same tests. The highway mileage should be close if not identical being that JC08 is very urban heavy. So 40mpg+ should be realistically attainable.
The real question is price. If this car is noticeably cheaper then the Insight, maybe in $17~19k range, then this car makes a lot of sense. Its slightly faster then the lethargic Insight, lacks 4 doors and utility, but is a sportier, and a more desirable vehicle. At that price it also leaves room for a "Si" model with more pace higher up in the pricing.
All of you folks carping about the acceleration times are missing the point of the original CRX. It wasn't a drag racer - it was a dinky, moderately-powered, lightweight, danceable sports car that could be rorted around like a go-kart at reasonable speeds. Yes, I said sports car and I meant it. It made even going to the 7-Eleven for a Sunday paper an opportunity for fun. You didn't have to manhandle or wrestle with it to get it to respond - a light touch on the wheels, pedals, and shifter was all that was needed. Ever drive a Sprite, MG Midget, or Spitfire? Or perhaps a first-gen Miata? None of these cars were very hot off the line, yet no-one accuses them of being dull. Ever take one of these on an empty hilly road with lots of tight twisties? Then I think you'll know what I'm talking about. Being able to keep the engine on the cam and tossing the car about without attracting too much unwanted attention. If Honda can keep this spirit in the new CR-Z, then I'll be interested. I'm worried about one thing though - I see no spec for weight. And it's not that tiny - 16 inches longer than the original CRX. I still think Honda should make a version without the hybrid stuff for the would-be autocrossers among us.
Edited by Schm, enjoying his first desert winter. . at 12/08/09 1:36 PM
Schm, enjoying his first desert winter. . was starred
Schm, enjoying his first desert winter. . was unstarred
12/10/09
12/10/09
12/10/09
The torque range on the ecoBoost blows me away.
(Project lead) "I want 350 ft-lbs of torque. Can you do that?"
(Engineer) "Sure. Where on the rev range do you want it?"
(Waves indistinctly) "Anywhere."
(Engineer shrugs) "Okey-dokey."
Also: +1 for timing chains.
The VW 2.0 Turbo is a fun engine. I drove it. It drives bigger than it is. Yowzah.
A Chevy getting 32mpg used to be impressive. Now it's Chevy's sport-cute delivering 32mpg, and it's not as small as the sport-cutes used to be. Frankly, I'm damned impressed. My car won't do that, not even close, and it doesn't make nearly as much power, either.
Damned impressed.
12/10/09
12/10/09
12/10/09
12/09/09
DEATH TO ENGINE HATS!
12/10/09
but then again, was the last time you saw an engine that looked like this one.....
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12/10/09
Manufacturer: Yamaha Motor Corporation
Production: 1989–1995
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12/10/09
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12/10/09
Or is there some reason that manufacturers want it to seem like a total mystery as to what is powering the car? "Hey, what's under there? DONT LOOK! It's a genie and he is f*cking angry."
Dear car makers: I (we) think engines look cool and we would like to see them. Nobody likes your stupid plastic covers, so stop putting them on. What, is this the victorian era of underhood design? Next thing you know there will just be another hood under the hood when you open the hood.
12/09/09
12/10/09
12/09/09
I am disappointed in the ecoweenieism that picked the naturally aspirated Ecotec over the direct injected turbocharged version (which also makes more power and torque than VW's equivalent).
12/10/09
12/10/09
12/10/09
12/09/09
As for the list, it's not bad (not great, either) although no hybrid makes my list and no way Hyundai makes the world's best V8.
Now that Subie has solved that pesky banjo bolt issue, I'm thrilled to see their pancake's on the menu.
12/10/09
12/09/09
I'm not sure when Ward's fell victim to the same eco-weenie crap that's taking over the whole fucking world, but I'm sure as hell am not happy about it. I love turbo-fours, diesels and direct injection as much as anybody, I don't know how much longer I can deal with all this plug-in-hybrid, evil man-made carbon emissions will kill us all bullshit that's progressively destroying the car hobby I so dearly love.
12/09/09
12/09/09
12/09/09
And the 3800, despite being a 40+ year old pushrod, it was easily one of, if not the best V6s on the market up until 2002-2003 or so. 200 horsepower (24o w/supercharger!) and 30 MPG on regular unleaded seemed unbelievable in the '90s, but Buick pulled it off. It wasn't until Nissan and Honda started one-upping each other that the 3800 finally stopped being competitive (and I can't believe GM tried replacing it with that "High Feature" garbage). Still, there's plenty of recent-vintage, 3800-equipped big GM sedans that make good beater highway cruisers. Not bad for a once-unloved, uneven-firing, sawed-off Fireball V8.
12/09/09
12/10/09
12/10/09
12/09/09
12/09/09
12/08/09
It looks to me the engine is based on a DBA-GE8/GE9 engine mated to an IMA system; which they seem to refer to as the DAA-ZF1. Mugen gets 150ps out the DBA-GE8 and the GE9 makes closer to 120ps in Fit RS, not to mention that the IMA system is fairly modular and could be mated to other more powerful Honda engines as practicality permits.
If this car gets 58mpg in JC08 testing procedures, the car should be within 1-2mpg of the Insight which gets 61mpg on the same tests. The highway mileage should be close if not identical being that JC08 is very urban heavy. So 40mpg+ should be realistically attainable.
The real question is price. If this car is noticeably cheaper then the Insight, maybe in $17~19k range, then this car makes a lot of sense. Its slightly faster then the lethargic Insight, lacks 4 doors and utility, but is a sportier, and a more desirable vehicle. At that price it also leaves room for a "Si" model with more pace higher up in the pricing.
12/08/09
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CR-Why?
12/08/09
When you said it would be light
It was a lie, lie, lie.
Now that we've seen the car
We're going to CR-Y, CR-Y, CR-Y.