I've noticed this and the SkyDeck concept share the same schnozz...if this is the future corporate grille of Honda, I'm all for it; not because it's particularly attractive, but because it's consistent. Honda is all over the friggin' place with their disjointed designs right now. #hondacrz
@bmoreDLJ: I don't see why you have to have all of the cars from a single brand look exactly the same. For me I reference music albums or paintings by the same artist. Creating a design identity is nice, but having all of your paintings look the same is rather boring. In the case of an album, I find the ones that are very singular stylisticly to feel like filler, while albums that incorporate different styles are rather fun to listen to over and over again well into the future.
Conformity within a brand should only be important when your product does not have enough panache and soul to stand on its own and therefore must rely on the mother brand to be noticed. That is the problem with most cars is that they lack soul b/c they are so monotonous. Despite the criticisms of the Challenger and other American muscle cars, they are perfect examples of cars that can stand on their own without the recognition of their original manufacturer. A good example of failure is the GTO; no soul in that design... #hondacrz
@Decisive: My favorite lines...Audi, Cadillac, Nissan/Infiniti, Peugeot/Citroen...they're all quite conformist from top to bottom. Which is how I likes it. You're right in that not only does Honda strive for difference with their models, but even their marketing is individualistic in style from model to model. Just personal preference. Nice analogy to music albums, though. #hondacrz
@avconsumer2: It's called a kammback, they do it for aerodynamic purposes, unfortunately, nobody has figured out how to make it attractive since the Daytona coupe. #hondacrz
Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet promoted this comment
Psiu! Puxa!: You're right, Mopar or no car! was starred
Psiu! Puxa!: You're right, Mopar or no car! was unstarred
@Psiu! Puxa!: I stand edumacated... but still... yeesh. Also... I'd forgotten (guess it's been quite a while since I've seen one,) the heritage - to obviously include the CRX. (der) #hondacrz
The CR-X was one of the best-handling FWD cars of its generation. How can the CR-Z match this by both weighing more and hauling around chunky battery pack? How can it match even the Civic Si? Why not hybridize a practical car, like the Element, a car that desperately needs to get better than 25 mpg? Or the CR-V? Both of these could benefit from some low-rpm torque.
The only one that makes sense is the 2nd-gen Insight, and apparently that car is a dud. #hondacrz
@brandegee: The CR-V doesn't need a hybrid - it already comes with a very good modern diesel.
Stick the diesel into the element and I'd be interested - I like the weirdness of it. #hondacrz
@MR42HH: In the U.S. it gets a single motor, the 2.4 gasoline version. It's got plenty of power for most purposes, but for just 166 hp the mileage isn't great. #hondacrz
@pauljones: True, if anyone can make a fine handling FWD hybrid, it would be Honda. But just drive a Civic Hybrid and a Civic Coupe (not even an Si!) back to back and it's amazing the difference between the two cars. One is fun and one is not.
I'm just questioning Honda's mission with this car.
Done right, they won't be able to build enough of them. I'm quite pleased that it occurred to somebody manufacturing cars that 'Hybrid' does not necessarily have to mean 'soul-sucking appliance.'
...granted, we'll have to wait and see how this actually pans out. #hondacrz
@takeshi: I expect that we'll see a move toward more organic forms, which suits me fine so long as everything does not end up looking like a Prius. #hondacrz
A fun hybrid eventually had to happen. There is nothing inherently wrong with hybrid systems as a mode of creating power for your vehicles. What is a shame is with the addition of a hybrid system you raise the price of this vehicle several thousand dollars putting it out of market for people looking for fun and cheap transportation. If Honda could just ditch the battery and offer this in an EX trim or Si, I think the ricer crowd and college students would have something they could really enjoy! #hondacrz
"While details are sparse on production plans, we're particularly interested to see how or if Honda plans on integrating a manual transmission with a hybrid system or will just go with a gasoline/manual as standard and hybrid/automatic for the premo model. We'll just have to wait and see. "
From PR:
"The CR-Z Concept 2009 is the world's first hybrid vehicle equipped with a six-speed manual transmission. Together with a 1.5-liter i-VTEC engine the vehicle will create completely new value by combining the fun of driving and outstanding fuel economy."
Look promising, however I had a bad feeling then Honda might be tempted to cut some corners, like they did with the Insight who was critisized by Jeremy Clarkson. Time to knock on wood.... #hondacrz
There is also something to be said for triangulation with regard to the size of an object. A smaller car can be stronger with the same thickness of material because distances between reinforcements are shorter. (Snapping a pencil is easy whereas snapping a pencil that is only an inch long is very hard.)
I can say this from experience: The '88 Si CRX in the states was the lightest CRX they made at, I believe, 1920 lb. When a guy changed lanes without looking and slammed me off the interstate at 70mph, my '88 Si nosed down into the ditch, then slammed into a steep hill, then proceeded to flip end over end four times before coming to a stop upright, but backwards. I walked out without a scratch. That was one STRONG passenger cabin!
Now, I could see how a frontal impact with a Hummer isn't going to go well for that little CRX no matter how small it is--hell, with any small car for that matter. In these cases it's possible to have TOO much stiffness--or in other words, too little room to deform slowly. More energy transmitted to passenger and passenger suffers.
But, really, you're not surviving a fast frontal impact with an SUV in any small car no matter how many stars it gets in the safety tests, so might as well get one that's small, light, strong, and fun to drive.
I say down with bloat, even more so down with weight, give us simpler, more efficient, more agile cars.
Just make sure that somewhere in the model line up is something for those of us who want at 2 door, manual, sporty, no unnecessary electronics type car for under $15k...
I know, asking a lot to have a car that doesn't park itself and such, no one wants that!
@Thrashy, perpetual Minardi: Can someone with an engineering background explain to me why cars are getting bigger? With stronger and lighter components in our arsenal, why do cars need to grow in size to be safer?
I don't understand why a mid 1980's Honda can get the same gas mileage as a 2009 Prius...surely I am not the only one noticing this trend? Airbags, stronger frames, sound-deadening material...none of these things require a car be THAT much bigger. Do they?
@Electro_Boogie: Cars are growing in size and weight due, primarily, to consumer demand. Tiny cars don't sell. People want more space, more gadgets, more safety, more power, etc. So, the car companies oblige because that is what companies are supposed to do. They are supposed to fill the desires of the market.
Some of the weight is due to safety. Front driver and passenger airbags are mandatory. ABS, traction control, etc. are also becoming mandatory and are being demanded by the consumer. All this adds weight. Add on the fact that the IIHS and NHTSA have convinced us that every car should have a 5 star crash test rating, even though the actual benefit is marginal compared to cars from 20 years ago and this far exceeds federal requirements for safety. In order to meet that, the car has to be bigger and/or heavier.
As far as mileage, the power of new cars also factors into it. Some of that is required to carry the extra weight, but most of it is desired by consumers. People want 200+ hp commuters. No more 60 hp econoboxes.
10/21/09
10/21/09
Conformity within a brand should only be important when your product does not have enough panache and soul to stand on its own and therefore must rely on the mother brand to be noticed. That is the problem with most cars is that they lack soul b/c they are so monotonous. Despite the criticisms of the Challenger and other American muscle cars, they are perfect examples of cars that can stand on their own without the recognition of their original manufacturer. A good example of failure is the GTO; no soul in that design... #hondacrz
10/21/09
10/21/09
Seriously, is there a rule that hybrids have to have aesthetically horrible rears? Does ugly increase efficiency exponentially somehow? #hondacrz
10/21/09
@avconsumer2: It's called a kammback, they do it for aerodynamic purposes, unfortunately, nobody has figured out how to make it attractive since the Daytona coupe. #hondacrz
10/21/09
10/21/09
@Psiu! Puxa!: I stand edumacated... but still... yeesh. Also... I'd forgotten (guess it's been quite a while since I've seen one,) the heritage - to obviously include the CRX. (der) #hondacrz
10/21/09
The only one that makes sense is the 2nd-gen Insight, and apparently that car is a dud. #hondacrz
10/21/09
It can be done, and with few exceptions (T230 Celica, Cobalt SS), all of the best-handling FWD cars carry the Honda badge. #hondacrz
10/21/09
Stick the diesel into the element and I'd be interested - I like the weirdness of it. #hondacrz
10/21/09
10/21/09
I'm just questioning Honda's mission with this car.
As for style, I'm really liking it. #hondacrz
10/21/09
...granted, we'll have to wait and see how this actually pans out. #hondacrz
10/21/09
BTW, I love you all this morning. Must be Jalop Valentine's Day. #hondacrz
10/21/09
10/21/09
10/21/09
10/21/09
10/21/09
From PR:
"The CR-Z Concept 2009 is the world's first hybrid vehicle equipped with a six-speed manual transmission. Together with a 1.5-liter i-VTEC engine the vehicle will create completely new value by combining the fun of driving and outstanding fuel economy."
10/21/09
10/21/09
10/01/09
I can say this from experience: The '88 Si CRX in the states was the lightest CRX they made at, I believe, 1920 lb. When a guy changed lanes without looking and slammed me off the interstate at 70mph, my '88 Si nosed down into the ditch, then slammed into a steep hill, then proceeded to flip end over end four times before coming to a stop upright, but backwards. I walked out without a scratch. That was one STRONG passenger cabin!
Now, I could see how a frontal impact with a Hummer isn't going to go well for that little CRX no matter how small it is--hell, with any small car for that matter. In these cases it's possible to have TOO much stiffness--or in other words, too little room to deform slowly. More energy transmitted to passenger and passenger suffers.
But, really, you're not surviving a fast frontal impact with an SUV in any small car no matter how many stars it gets in the safety tests, so might as well get one that's small, light, strong, and fun to drive.
I say down with bloat, even more so down with weight, give us simpler, more efficient, more agile cars.
10/03/09
09/30/09
I know, asking a lot to have a car that doesn't park itself and such, no one wants that!
09/30/09
Still ugly as sin.
09/30/09
09/30/09
09/30/09
09/30/09
I hope Honda doesn't rebadge it for the US as an Acura so that it can compete with Lexus' hatchback.
09/30/09
[click to embiggen and see the whole gory thing]
Edmunds was kind enough to publish the overall length of the car, which naturally led me to compare the old and the new.
...Uh, it got bigger. A lot.
09/30/09
I don't understand why a mid 1980's Honda can get the same gas mileage as a 2009 Prius...surely I am not the only one noticing this trend? Airbags, stronger frames, sound-deadening material...none of these things require a car be THAT much bigger. Do they?
09/30/09
Some of the weight is due to safety. Front driver and passenger airbags are mandatory. ABS, traction control, etc. are also becoming mandatory and are being demanded by the consumer. All this adds weight. Add on the fact that the IIHS and NHTSA have convinced us that every car should have a 5 star crash test rating, even though the actual benefit is marginal compared to cars from 20 years ago and this far exceeds federal requirements for safety. In order to meet that, the car has to be bigger and/or heavier.
As far as mileage, the power of new cars also factors into it. Some of that is required to carry the extra weight, but most of it is desired by consumers. People want 200+ hp commuters. No more 60 hp econoboxes.
Size does matter.