gm-chrysler merger

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Report: Chrysler, GM Reviving Merger Talks
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NYT: GM Sought Merger With Ford First

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Mad_Science
12/18/08

In reply to Report: Chrysler, GM Reviving Merger Talks
Jeep under GM is a good thing (people have been swapping GM parts into Jeeps since the Dawn of Time).

I suppose they could pick up the minivans, too.

Other than that, the whole company's redundant.

Figure they'd probably sell the Ram trucks division to Nissan, and shut the rest down.
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sos10
12/18/08

In reply to Report: Chrysler, GM Reviving Merger Talks
GM is denying talks.
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pauljones
12/18/08

@sos10:

Congress is denying GM.
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Scott
12/18/08

In reply to Report: Chrysler, GM Reviving Merger Talks
Instead of the Big Three, it should be the Big One.

(seriously.)
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Triborough
12/18/08

In reply to Report: Chrysler, GM Reviving Merger Talks
The return of the K Car now with bowties?

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smalleyxb122
12/18/08

@Triborough: I need to up my meds, or cut them back. Either way, my meds are not at the exact right amount, since when I saw that multi-colored Reliant, I thought "sure, I'd drive that".
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Rust-MyEnemy
12/18/08

In reply to Report: Chrysler, GM Reviving Merger Talks
Anagrams of Chrysler General Motors:

Clergymen Steal Horrors,

Ar Sorcerer Thong Smelly,

And many, many more.
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sos10
12/18/08

@Rust-MyEnemy 20v Turbo: Enthrall merry scrooges
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Rust-MyEnemy
12/18/08

@sos10: Festive!
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Scott Wynn
12/18/08

In reply to Report: Chrysler, GM Reviving Merger Talks
When the pentastar and the bowtie merge I think it makes a pentagram......just saying.
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DoctorNine
12/18/08

@Scott Wynn: Isn't the street address of the Renaissance Center, 666?
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j6r
12/18/08

In reply to Report: Chrysler, GM Reviving Merger Talks
Bloomberg reporting they're not, so... [www.bloomberg.com]
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mikedrawcar
12/18/08

@j6r: oddly enough, both stories say the exact same thing- just came to different conclusions. I wouldn't be surprised if they were being forced to reconsider the merger as a qualification for government money. In the government's view, a merger would solve a lot of problems, and if they're given leeway on labor and dealership contracts, it actually could in a crazy roundabout way.
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pauljones
12/18/08

In reply to Report: Chrysler, GM Reviving Merger Talks
The problem for Dodge is that it would fit absolutely nowhere in the GM brand structure. Nor would Chrysler. With Hummer pretty much gone, Jeep pretty much has a guaranteed place. Hell, we might even get a new Jeep pickup based off of the bones of the H3T. I wouldn't mind that.

Dodge would be a duplicate brand that would overlap with both Chevrolet and Pontiac. And, with the exception of the Challenger/Charger/Magnum/300 platform and the Caravan platform, it has nothing worth keeping. Sure, the new Ram platform is great, but it is completely redundant.

Chrysler, once a luxury brand, is now down to the likes of competing with that other once-a-luxury-brand, Buick. And Buick is in better shape than Chrysler.

In the end, aside from the obvious of Jeep, I think that we would wind up with a new Chevrolet Astro/Venture based off of the Caravan platform, a new flagship RWD sedan for Buick, and perhaps some Saturn or Chevrolet versions to amortize production costs.

Chrysler? Gone. Dodge? Gone.

Does anyone remember a few years ago, when we were predicting this same fate for Ford, while lauding how well Chrysler was doing?

All hope appears to be gone at this point, but the tides can change pretty damn fast, and it ain't over till the fat lady sings.

So hold on tight, we aren't out of the woods just yet...
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Timtoolman, sporadically speaking
12/18/08

@pauljones: I see Pontiac gone in favor of Dodge, just by virtue of the Charger/Challenger/300, and the trucks, although I agree, GM doesn't need another truck line. That is; unless they want to make GMC a separate-and-not-equal truck line to the Chevy. Yeah, I know, not in a million years.
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pauljones
12/18/08

@timtoolman:

From a product differentiation standpoint, moving the Sierra on to the Ram's platform wouldn't be the worst idea in the world. It wouldn't make sense from a business standpoint, though, as it would be one more platform to support. My guess is that the Ram platform gets sold to Nissan, as they are already using it for the next Titan.

As for Pontiac vs Dodge, it's a coin toss, as they both are once glorious brands ruined with terrible offerings for 20 years running. But I would say that Pontiac would win if GM were to take over Chrysler. There is obviously the whole in-group bias thing that Pontiac has to its advantage, plus the fact that the G8 is a better car than the Charger/300, and uses a platform that is more adaptable and has a greater production volume.
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DoctorNine
12/18/08

@pauljones: I find myself approximately 99.7% in agreement with your analysis. I don't think GM is going to do RWD in a Buick platform ever again though. There would be too many reasons at Pontiac and Cadillac to nip that admittedly interesting possibility in the bud.
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pauljones
12/18/08

@DoctorNine:

I know. And that is why either Buick or Saturn must go. I'm hoping that it is Saturn that goes rather than Buick.

But hey, a guy can dream about a new, RWD Roadmaster. Or Invicta. Or Electra. Or Riviera.

Right? Right?

Or, dare I say, a sexy, slinky, RWD 2+2 coupe that went by the Wildcat name?

Okay, I'll stop smoking crack now.
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CMU_Bueller
12/18/08

@pauljones: Or a Ram with a Cummins and a real transmission and a lifetime warranty.
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Mr.choppers - Delenda Carthago Est
12/18/08

@CMU_Bueller: Sure, so the Pentastar brands are all useless, but think about all of the additional production capacity GM would get!

That's what's holding them back, innit?
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pauljones
12/18/08

@CMU_Bueller:

Lifetime warranties kind of suck with out a living company to honor them.

As for the Ram thing, if you are referring to the off-chance hope for a Jeep truck, I would still rather have the Jeep.

Although, if things keep going at this rate, I would say that neither of the above are out of the realm of possibility.
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DoctorNine
12/18/08

@pauljones: Yeah, I gotta agree with you there. I'd like an Invicta. Simply because that's the species name of the imported red fire ant, and you can't kill those little bastards. It'd be good karma.
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Brian
12/18/08

@pauljones: No way Buick goes before Saturn. Buick is too strong a brand in China.
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pauljones
12/18/08

@Brian B:

Those were my thoughts, as well, but time will tell. If it came down to it, a lot of the decision would depend on consumer impressions of the two brands; whichever one is perceived as being better in any way, shape or form wins. The fact that Buick is a strong brand in China, however, may not be enough to save it here in the US. It could wind up being a somewhat similar case to Fiat, Peugeot, Alfa Romeo, Opel, etc. in that the brands still exist, but are simply not sold on in the US. The way things are going, anything is possible.
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Rust-MyEnemy
12/18/08

In reply to Report: Chrysler, GM Reviving Merger Talks

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DoctorNine
12/18/08

@Rust-MyEnemy 20v Turbo: Dude, COTD. Seriously. Laughed the coffee out my nose. Well done.
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STR8SIX
12/18/08

@Rust-MyEnemy 20v Turbo: Does that beast have a Cummins or a LS9? Regardless, what can you do to put me in that Chevrolodge today?
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Rust-MyEnemy
12/18/08

@STR8SIX: Dude, it has both! Send me a bankers draft (euros please!), I'll hook you up.
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damnelantra™
12/18/08

@Rust-MyEnemy 20v Turbo: that fella looks far to confident in his sexual orientation to be standing next to such a fine american automobile
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Rust-MyEnemy
12/18/08

@damnelantra™: I couldn't find an appropriate Brokeback hat.
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Deartháir II
12/18/08

@Rust-MyEnemy 20v Turbo: You, sir, win the Internets today. I'm still coughing up coffee. I really needed a good laugh like that today.
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Mad_Science
12/18/08

@Rust-MyEnemy 20v Turbo: Yep, that's COTD.

Also, got a link to the actual flickr photo page? Need to add that to favorites and send it to everyone I know.
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Rust-MyEnemy
12/18/08

@Mad_Science: [flickr.com]
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Mad_Science
12/18/08

@Rust-MyEnemy 20v Turbo: You haz a contact!
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damnelantra™
12/18/08

@Rust-MyEnemy 20v Turbo: You haz another
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Rust-MyEnemy
12/18/08

@Mad_Science: @damnelantra™: Contactz contacted!
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Elhigh
12/18/08

In reply to Report: Chrysler, GM Reviving Merger Talks
Just in time for the depths of the Carpocalypse, GM and Chrysler merge, and dust off their mad small car skillz. Up next: the Omnivette.
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vwminispeedster, pronounded Si-trow-in
12/18/08

@Elhigh: Omnivette may be a combo of a Dodge Omni and a Chevy Chevette. Not quite the combo I was looking forward to.
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Timtoolman, sporadically speaking
12/18/08

In reply to Report: Chrysler, GM Reviving Merger Talks
The science behind it is the government wants them to declare bankruptcy, in order to renege on the deals they've made, including pensions. Then, when the slate is clean, per se, the feds will give some cash to get by with. At least, this is the way I understand it.
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cazin678
12/18/08

@timtoolman:

What "deals"? Wake up- GM FAILED, and the pensioners are due NOTHING. Yes it's their faults, because the erosion of GM began 25+ years ago, and there ARE consequences to building shitty 1982 Cimmarons......

What shall the poor pensioners do? Umm, probably the same thing the poor Citibank workers do- "WELCOME TO WALMART", and oh gee, guess I should worked harder back in the day to save and protect for my future.....
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smalleyxb122
12/18/08

@cazin678: Perhaps, in hindsight, pensioners should have squirreled away some more of their money, but to place any blame their way is misguided. They took a job with an understanding, and they did plan for their future. Their plan was just based on those promises that were made to them. You do the same when you work for a company with the expectation that they will pay you for your time at the end of the week. The pension is just a longer term, and outlived the seers' vision for a prosperous company/economy.

Blame the company for making the promise, if you must, but don't blame the pensioners for expecting the company to make good on it.
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lilwillie
12/18/08

In reply to Report: Chrysler, GM Reviving Merger Talks
Why not?

Washington has nothing but hate towards the Big Three. Media has nothing but hate. General Public has nothing but hate. GM should take Chrysler and tell everyone to pound sand, move to the Caymans and drink it up.
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DoctorNine
12/18/08

@lilwillie: Jesus, what planet are you living on?
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Deartháir II
12/18/08

@DoctorNine: I hate to say it, but I agree with him. GM is getting support (at least in words) from every other government that houses a GM factory. They might as well just uproot their head office and relocate to Sydney or Oshawa, since the American government is more concerned with politics and posturing than with getting any real work done.
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DannyBN
12/18/08

In reply to Report: Chrysler, GM Reviving Merger Talks
Don't do it, GM. Haven't you learned that anybody who has possession of Jeep is ultimately doomed?
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stephdumas
12/18/08

@DannyBN: unless they might have a way to get rid of the "Jeep curse" (if the Red Sox was able to be rid of the curse of the Bambino, why can't the Jeep curse be eleminated?)

Btw, we won't be surprised to hear additionnal merger rumors, besides the one of an "alliance"...err I mean merger between Fiat and Peugeot [www.leftlanenews.com] some mentions a Mercedes-BMW one (maybe not a merger, perhaps more joint-ventures projects instead)
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Timtoolman, sporadically speaking
12/18/08

@stephdumas: Mercedes-BMW merger? Beemer may as well take their poison pill now.
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medmoney
12/18/08

@timtoolman: No worries, Porsche will own them all eventually. VW's just the beginning...
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beta.rogan
12/18/08

@DannyBN: "It's a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand."
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Paul Y. can't get in the club; gotta parking lot pimp
12/18/08

@beta.rogan: Yeah, and apparently that "Jeep thing" is communicable.
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Deartháir II
12/18/08

@medmoney: One (Nurburg)Ring to Rule Them All.
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Rust-MyEnemy
12/18/08

In reply to Report: Chrysler, GM Reviving Merger Talks
The cynic in me would say that most current Chevys are Dodgy enough as it is....
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mtdrv
12/18/08

In reply to Report: Chrysler, GM Reviving Merger Talks
It is the, "What would you like on your tombstone?" contest.
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SundaySunday
12/18/08

@mtdrv: Mmm. Sausage & pepperoni, for me.

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