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Detroit, 5:15 AM
Fri Nov 27
1 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of Elhigh Elhigh
    11/26/09

    In reply to Five Best And Worst Black Friday New Car Deals
    I've noticed that Chinese motorcycles are probably the most expensive motorcycle purchase you can possibly make. You buy in low, but parts cost quickly mount.

    Better to buy a battered old Virago. It'll run longer and you won't be in such a hot hurry to move up to a bigger bike.

    Also: Kudos to Bumbeck devising a way to safely drop the turkey into the grease. My way is to get my brother in law to do it.

    Also: Knoxville TN cops are screening crazy hard - go five miles over the limit and you'll get flagged. I don't think there'd be more cops on the roads if they thought we were being invade by the Taliban.

    Also in Knoxville: Jim Cogdill Dodge is trying to sell brand new, never sold, 2008 Dodge and Chrysler products at $13,000. Still got the whole warranty, it's still a brand-new car at a used car price. It might be a better deal, assuming Chrysler's still around in five years for parts support.
     Reply
    Elhigh was starred Elhigh was unstarred
    Image of sos10 sos10
    11/24/09

    In reply to BREAKING: Saab, Koenigsegg Deal Off
    To think that KEgg only now realized Saab is a worthless brand is naif.
    I continue to think that the deal wasn't really going to happen, I also think that KEgg will close doors really soon.
     Reply
    sos10 was starred sos10 was unstarred
    Image of tonyola tonyola
    11/24/09

    In reply to BREAKING: Saab, Koenigsegg Deal Off
    Before everyone gets too sloshed from crying into their beer, let's keep one thing in mind - Saab was a dead brand walking when GM took it over in 1990. At that time, the 900 was based on a 22-year old platform and body. The 9000 was a failed experiment in moving upmarket. Sales had fallen through the floor and red ink was flowing everywhere. Maybe GM could have done better during their ownership, but the new 900 for 1994 and the 9-5 seemed like reasonable efforts. Not enough buyers cared by then. It's been panic actions ever since. Saab is a brand whose time has run out, and it looks like Volvo is headed for the same fate.
     Reply
    Edited by tonyola at 11/24/09 2:23 PM tonyola was starred tonyola was unstarred
    Image of stephdumas stephdumas
    11/24/09

    @tonyola: I checked here and there some old rumors from 2005 who mentionned than Renault eyed Volvo or Saab [jalopnik.com]
    [jalopnik.com]
    [jalopnik.com]
    Doubtful then Renault is still interested to get Saab but who knows?
     Reply
    tonyola promoted this comment stephdumas was starred stephdumas was unstarred
    Image of tonyola tonyola
    11/24/09

    @stephdumas: There had been rumors of a Renault-Volvo merger in the late 1970s, and a Saab-Volvo merger had actually been officially proposed in 1979. Apparently Saab shareholders killed that idea.
     Reply
    tonyola was starred tonyola was unstarred
    Image of longdx longdx
    11/24/09

    @tonyola: This is perhaps the best truism about Saab. I had a 1992 9000CS. I loved it. It was bulletproof, comfortable, and an enjoyable car. However,I bought it used at a ridiculously low price. That was and is the main problem with new Saab sales. These cars could never justify their inflated MSRP and their residual values reflect it. Why but a new Saab , when you can buy a slighlty used one for a fraction of the cost. It is not the same with BMW/Mercedes/Lexus?Infinity buyers as their respective vehicles still command decent trade values. Factor the meddling by GM into the design of Saabs from the mid-90's forward ,Saab could really never compete directly with other luxury brands on their merit alone.
     Reply
    tonyola promoted this comment longdx was starred longdx was unstarred
    Image of tonyola tonyola
    11/24/09

    @longdx: You make a good point in that despite all of Saab's efforts, it was never able to convince many people that it was a true luxury brand that could compete with the Germans, Lexus, and Infiniti. Saab was not satisfied with making fun, quirky, and moderately priced cars like in the '60s and '70s. Beginning with the '79 900, they kept trying to move upmarket into more profitable territory. It worked for a little while, but as the 99/900 platform aged and the 9000 sat in showrooms unbought, it was clear that people weren't going along with the game. By 1990, things had become hopeless and Saab was desperately looking for a savior - GM, in this case.
     Reply
    tonyola was starred tonyola was unstarred
    Image of Tanshanomi Tanshanomi
    11/24/09

    In reply to BREAKING: Saab, Koenigsegg Deal Off
    Saab for sale
    Appetizing Swedish Saab for sale
    Saab thats fresh and still unspoiled
    Saab thats only slightly soiled
    Saab for sale

    Who will buy
    Who would like to sample their supply
    Who's prepared to pay the fee
    For a center console key?
    Saab for sale

    Let the Hoons all rally Saabs
    In their Hoonish ways
    I know every type of Saab
    Better far than they
    If you want the thrill of Saab
    I've been through the mill of Saab
    Old Saab
    New Saab
    Every Saab but true Saab
     Reply
    Tanshanomi was starred Tanshanomi was unstarred
    Image of wkiernan wkiernan
    11/24/09

    @Tanshanomi: so good, APPLAUSE
     Reply
    DoctorNine promoted this comment wkiernan was starred wkiernan was unstarred
    Image of LuciferV8 LuciferV8
    11/25/09

    @Tanshanomi: Another piece of quality work.
     Reply
    LuciferV8 was starred LuciferV8 was unstarred
    Image of YankBoffin YankBoffin
    11/24/09

    In reply to Five Best And Worst Black Friday New Car Deals
    I need a little help with understanding the AWD Dodge problem. Why is it less desirable? Poorer fuel economy? Fewer engine choices? For a family looking for a affordable big sedan that is good in the snow, this might be appealing.
     Reply
    YankBoffin was starred YankBoffin was unstarred
    Image of yachius yachius
    11/24/09

    @YankBoffin: It gets poorer fuel economy and doesn't corner as well but most importantly, there are much better AWD cars for the price. Most people looking at the Charger in the first place want a RWD muscle car. People looking for an AWD family sedan don't immediately think of a Charger.
     Reply
    YankBoffin promoted this comment Edited by yachius at 11/24/09 2:25 PM yachius was starred yachius was unstarred
    Image of YankBoffin YankBoffin
    11/24/09

    @yachius: Just checked the website, [www.dodge.com] and looking at the prices Sam quotes, the deal would be to get an AWD SXT for the price of the stripper SE base model. So, that doesn't just get you AWD, you as get the bigger V6, 5-spd auto, TC, ESP, "performance brakes", and more. Nobody wants the wimpy underpowered base model, even if it does have more mpg.
     Reply
    YankBoffin was starred YankBoffin was unstarred
    Image of yachius yachius
    11/24/09

    @YankBoffin: I didn't look at the deal but what you've quoted is correct then it sounds like Dodge is trying very hard to move an unpopular model that is sitting on their lots. There aren't many other reasons to lower the price of a premium model so drastically.
     Reply
    yachius was starred yachius was unstarred
    Image of Elhigh Elhigh
    11/26/09

    @YankBoffin: When I'm thinking AWD, Dodge isn't the first thing that jumps to mind. "Affordable big sedan that is good in the snow" just screams Legacy to me.
     Reply
    Elhigh was starred Elhigh was unstarred
    Image of bmoreDLJ bmoreDLJ
    11/24/09

    In reply to BREAKING: Saab, Koenigsegg Deal Off
    Aw, shucks. Here's the scorecard:

    Pontiac: dead
    Saturn Deal: off
    Opel Deal: off
    Saab Deal: off
    HUMMER Deal: 不知道.
     Reply
    bmoreDLJ was starred bmoreDLJ was unstarred
    Image of Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet
    11/24/09

    In reply to Five Best And Worst Black Friday New Car Deals
    They all seem like pretty good deals. Especially the Ford offer: cars people want from a US manufacturer that's not bankrupt.
     Reply
    Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet was starred Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet was unstarred
    Image of zerofritz zerofritz
    11/24/09

    @Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet: i have never known zero percent financing to actually be a bad thing, relative to, you know, paying for financing.
     Reply
    zerofritz was starred zerofritz was unstarred
    Image of Alfisted Alfisted
    11/24/09

    In reply to Five Best And Worst Black Friday New Car Deals
    Subaru does build cars I want (and even bought) ... it's the image and segmentation I could do without. I am not a lefty, lesbian, tree hugger or whirled peaser by any stretch. I just want a reasonably reliable, fast, AWD wagon.
     Reply
    Alfisted was starred Alfisted was unstarred
    Image of Sportwagons, haulin' stuff and haulin' balls Sportwagons, haulin' stuff and haulin' balls
    11/24/09

    @Alfisted: We may be on different sides of the political spectrum, but we can agree on a nice sportwagon. There's some consensus-building!

    Problem is, I don't want any of Subaru's current-gen models under my tree. Blech.
     Reply
    Alfisted promoted this comment Sportwagons, haulin' stuff and haulin' balls was starred Sportwagons, haulin' stuff and haulin' balls was unstarred
    Image of Alfisted Alfisted
    11/24/09

    @Sportwagons, haulin' stuff and haulin' balls: I'm not so put off by the current Impreza, but it is a travesty what they've done with everything else.

    #tips
     Reply
    Alfisted was starred Alfisted was unstarred
    Image of abgwin abgwin
    11/24/09

    @Alfisted: it's fairly sad that you would be more concerned with what your friends and neighbors think about the car you drive than driving the car you think you want to drive.

    I mean, seriously, if you're concerned they'll confuse you for a tree-hugging lesbian, you've got more problems than just choosing a car can solve (or create).
     Reply
    Alfisted promoted this comment abgwin was starred abgwin was unstarred
    Image of Alfisted Alfisted
    11/24/09

    @abgwin: Easy big fella. I bought the car.

    #tips
     Reply
    Alfisted was starred Alfisted was unstarred
    Image of Sportwagons, haulin' stuff and haulin' balls Sportwagons, haulin' stuff and haulin' balls
    11/24/09

    @Alfisted: Who cares what people think of your car. Besides, lesbians have a very important preference in common with me.
     Reply
    Alfisted promoted this comment Sportwagons, haulin' stuff and haulin' balls was starred Sportwagons, haulin' stuff and haulin' balls was unstarred
    Image of Alfisted Alfisted
    11/24/09

    @Sportwagons, haulin' stuff and haulin' balls: It's not what others think of my car. It's that I think Subaru could more successfully attain their objectives (the Legacy GT was intended to rival the 3-series and A4) if they would ease up on running promotions and advertising that play to a stereotype.

    #tips
     Reply
    Alfisted was starred Alfisted was unstarred
    Image of Sportwagons, haulin' stuff and haulin' balls Sportwagons, haulin' stuff and haulin' balls
    11/24/09

    @Alfisted: My question was purely rhetorical, not directed at anyone in particular, just kinda "who cares?".

    I'd wager that Subaru is giving in to the natural inclinations of a large part of their buyers. In other words, the preferences of their buyers are driving their marketing, not the other way around. When my 2005 GT wagon was introduced, they had Lance Armstrong in the commercials touting the performance ("quicker than a Porsche Boxter"). But that clearly didn't shift the perception of the brand away from AWD+safety+practicality.
     Reply
    Sportwagons, haulin' stuff and haulin' balls was starred Sportwagons, haulin' stuff and haulin' balls was unstarred
    Image of abgwin abgwin
    11/24/09

    @Alfisted: I would hazard a guess that their marketing budget is seperate from their R&D budget, and whether or not they target niche markets has little or nothing to do with whether or not the boys and girls in product direction think they should shoot for BMW territory.

    And in any event, Subaru has been steadily gaining market share and one of the only brands increasing sales over previous years, so something is working - prob in both marketing AND development.

    Now relax and buy a flannel shirt and some Birkenstocks.
     Reply
    Alfisted promoted this comment abgwin was starred abgwin was unstarred
    Image of Alfisted Alfisted
    11/24/09

    @abgwin: Dang, I already have several flannels and a pair of Birkenstocks, along with a Subie wagon. Maybe I'm not who I think I am.
    #tips
     Reply
    Alfisted was starred Alfisted was unstarred
    Image of TRAMS_AM TRAMS_AM
    11/24/09

    @Alfisted: You own an Asian Volvo. Maybe get a louder BOV?
     Reply
    Alfisted promoted this comment TRAMS_AM was starred TRAMS_AM was unstarred
    Image of Alfisted Alfisted
    11/24/09

    @TRAMS_AM: Only if it's a duck call.

    #tips
     Reply
    Alfisted was starred Alfisted was unstarred
    Image of Tanshanomi Tanshanomi
    11/24/09

    In reply to Five Best And Worst Black Friday New Car Deals
    Good Deal #6
    What: Keeping my '92 Town Car
    Where: My driveway
    Regular Price: Gift from my elderly mother-in-law.
    Black Friday Price: The cost of fixing the electric windows and recharging the A/C whenever I have the cash and get around to it—probably next spring with my tax refund.
    Why It's A Good Deal: Zero down, zero interest, zero monthly payments, zero for comprehensive insurance, forever.
     Reply
    Edited by Tanshanomi at 11/24/09 12:24 PM Tanshanomi was starred Tanshanomi was unstarred
    Image of LuciferV8 LuciferV8
    11/24/09

    @Tanshanomi: Ahhh, the never-ending advantages in avoiding the stealership...
     Reply
    LuciferV8 was starred LuciferV8 was unstarred
    Image of Paul Y. don't drive too fast. Paul Y. don't drive too fast.
    11/24/09

    In reply to Five Best And Worst Black Friday New Car Deals
    Regarding the AWD Charger: more is more, and therefore better; the word 'upgrade' improves anything.
     Reply
    Paul Y. don't drive too fast. was starred Paul Y. don't drive too fast. was unstarred
    Image of Tanshanomi Tanshanomi
    11/24/09

    In reply to Five Best And Worst Black Friday New Car Deals
    building cars people want?
    What kind of a crazy business model is that?
     Reply
    Tanshanomi was starred Tanshanomi was unstarred
    Image of Tiberiuswise is all ate up with sarcasm Tiberiuswise is all ate up with sarcasm
    11/24/09

    @Tanshanomi: Where'd that star come from?
     Reply
    Tanshanomi promoted this comment Tiberiuswise is all ate up with sarcasm was starred Tiberiuswise is all ate up with sarcasm was unstarred
    Image of Tanshanomi Tanshanomi
    11/24/09

    @Tiberiuswise is all ate up with sarcasm: Ray decided I'd learned my lesson. I'm no longer grounded.
     Reply
    Tanshanomi was starred Tanshanomi was unstarred
    Image of drewdrawshashtags drewdrawshashtags
    11/24/09

    In reply to Five Best And Worst Black Friday New Car Deals
    I don't need convincing that I want a BMW diesel, I've been begging for them for years.

    I need convincing that I should spend $40,000+ in a recession on anything.
     Reply
    drewdrawshashtags was starred drewdrawshashtags was unstarred
    Image of Straight6er Straight6er
    11/24/09

    @drewdrawshashtags: The fastest way out of a recession would be to get everyone spending again. People panic about it in the beginning and hoard their money. This only makes it worse than it would have been originally
     Reply
    drewdrawshashtags promoted this comment Straight6er was starred Straight6er was unstarred
    Image of drewdrawshashtags drewdrawshashtags
    11/24/09

    @Straight6er: Great in theory, but overspending on a car because it's a "good deal" is a big part of what got us here in the first place.

    I, and most Americans, don't have the cash to buy a $40K car, they borrow to the hilt for it. Then you lose your job or house value goes down and you've got nothing but debt and cool shit you have to sell off.

    I'll keep looking at 2 year-old off-lease 3 Series for $25K, thanks.
     Reply
    drewdrawshashtags was starred drewdrawshashtags was unstarred
    Image of Straight6er Straight6er
    11/25/09

    @drewdrawshashtags: This is very true. I hadn't really thought about the borrowing aspect, i was more in line with skulldriveshaft's thinking: spend it if you got it.

    Also i like your choice of vehicle, depreciation can sure be handy :P

    #tips
     Reply
    Straight6er was starred Straight6er was unstarred
    Image of drewdrawshashtags drewdrawshashtags
    11/25/09

    @Straight6er: Ain't depreciation grand?
     Reply
    drewdrawshashtags was starred drewdrawshashtags was unstarred
    Image of that ain't the way to have fun, son that ain't the way to have fun, son
    11/24/09

    In reply to Five Best And Worst Black Friday New Car Deals
    Any vehicle sold by Wal-Mart.

    Never mind. #8 fills that slot, nicely.
     Reply
    that ain't the way to have fun, son was starred that ain't the way to have fun, son was unstarred
    Image of mr_dude mr_dude
    11/24/09

    In reply to Five Best And Worst Black Friday New Car Deals
    You forgot the best deal of all: staying at home eating leftover turkey and watching Bond marathons.
     Reply
    mr_dude was starred mr_dude was unstarred
    Image of Rust-MyEnemy Rust-MyEnemy
    11/24/09

    @mr_dude: Truly something to give thanks for!
     Reply
    Rust-MyEnemy was starred Rust-MyEnemy was unstarred
    Image of SlowMo (actually, there's no E on my R) SlowMo (actually, there's no E on my R)
    11/24/09

    @mr_dude: or for another brand of ass-kicking, Ion is having a "FEastwood" marathon; a whole slew of Clint Eastwood movies. Holiday couch-surfing bonus QOTD: Who would win, Dirty Harry or the various generations of Bond?
     Reply
    mr_dude promoted this comment SlowMo (actually, there's no E on my R) was starred SlowMo (actually, there's no E on my R) was unstarred
    Image of mr_dude mr_dude
    11/24/09

    @SlowMo (actually, there's no E on my R): Ditka.
     Reply
    mr_dude was starred mr_dude was unstarred
    Image of Rust-MyEnemy Rust-MyEnemy
    11/24/09

    In reply to BREAKING: Saab, Koenigsegg Deal Off
    Must admit it sounded a bit too good to be true, like Weissman buying BMW.

    Still, I've got £3.80 actual cash on me, right now. Put your hands in your pockets, guys.

    Do they have a "Buy it now" button?
     Reply
    Rust-MyEnemy was starred Rust-MyEnemy was unstarred
    Image of SantaRita SantaRita
    11/24/09

    @Rust-MyEnemy: i've got 5$ on it.
     Reply
    Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet promoted this comment SantaRita was starred SantaRita was unstarred
    Earlier discussions Other discussions Show all discussions Show featured discussions only Start a new discussion

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