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Five Best And Worst Black Friday New Car Deals
BREAKING: Saab, Koenigsegg Deal Off
Crudele Corvette Watch: How You Can Dent A New 'Vette And Annoy A NY Post Writer
STUDY: Each New GM Vehicle Costs Taxpayers $12,200
Why Do Republicans Hate American Automakers?
"New" GM Drops Totally Useless Financial Results
GM To Begin Paying $6.7 Billion In Loans Ahead Of Schedule
Buick Regal Is Back, Gets Turbocharged
GM Designer Explains OnStar Car Hero Concept
GM Chairman Asks U.S. To Pay Auto Execs More Money

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sos10
11/24/09

In reply to BREAKING: Saab, Koenigsegg Deal Off
To think that KEgg only now realized Saab is a worthless brand is naif.
I continue to think that the deal wasn't really going to happen, I also think that KEgg will close doors really soon.
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sos10 was starred sos10 was unstarred

tonyola
11/24/09

In reply to BREAKING: Saab, Koenigsegg Deal Off
Before everyone gets too sloshed from crying into their beer, let's keep one thing in mind - Saab was a dead brand walking when GM took it over in 1990. At that time, the 900 was based on a 22-year old platform and body. The 9000 was a failed experiment in moving upmarket. Sales had fallen through the floor and red ink was flowing everywhere. Maybe GM could have done better during their ownership, but the new 900 for 1994 and the 9-5 seemed like reasonable efforts. Not enough buyers cared by then. It's been panic actions ever since. Saab is a brand whose time has run out, and it looks like Volvo is headed for the same fate.
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Edited by tonyola at 11/24/09 2:23 PM tonyola was starred tonyola was unstarred

stephdumas
11/24/09

@tonyola: I checked here and there some old rumors from 2005 who mentionned than Renault eyed Volvo or Saab [jalopnik.com]
[jalopnik.com]
[jalopnik.com]
Doubtful then Renault is still interested to get Saab but who knows?
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tonyola promoted this comment stephdumas was starred stephdumas was unstarred

tonyola
11/24/09

@stephdumas: There had been rumors of a Renault-Volvo merger in the late 1970s, and a Saab-Volvo merger had actually been officially proposed in 1979. Apparently Saab shareholders killed that idea.
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longdx
11/24/09

@tonyola: This is perhaps the best truism about Saab. I had a 1992 9000CS. I loved it. It was bulletproof, comfortable, and an enjoyable car. However,I bought it used at a ridiculously low price. That was and is the main problem with new Saab sales. These cars could never justify their inflated MSRP and their residual values reflect it. Why but a new Saab , when you can buy a slighlty used one for a fraction of the cost. It is not the same with BMW/Mercedes/Lexus?Infinity buyers as their respective vehicles still command decent trade values. Factor the meddling by GM into the design of Saabs from the mid-90's forward ,Saab could really never compete directly with other luxury brands on their merit alone.
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tonyola promoted this comment longdx was starred longdx was unstarred

tonyola
11/24/09

@longdx: You make a good point in that despite all of Saab's efforts, it was never able to convince many people that it was a true luxury brand that could compete with the Germans, Lexus, and Infiniti. Saab was not satisfied with making fun, quirky, and moderately priced cars like in the '60s and '70s. Beginning with the '79 900, they kept trying to move upmarket into more profitable territory. It worked for a little while, but as the 99/900 platform aged and the 9000 sat in showrooms unbought, it was clear that people weren't going along with the game. By 1990, things had become hopeless and Saab was desperately looking for a savior - GM, in this case.
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Tanshanomi
11/24/09

In reply to BREAKING: Saab, Koenigsegg Deal Off
Saab for sale
Appetizing Swedish Saab for sale
Saab thats fresh and still unspoiled
Saab thats only slightly soiled
Saab for sale

Who will buy
Who would like to sample their supply
Who's prepared to pay the fee
For a center console key?
Saab for sale

Let the Hoons all rally Saabs
In their Hoonish ways
I know every type of Saab
Better far than they
If you want the thrill of Saab
I've been through the mill of Saab
Old Saab
New Saab
Every Saab but true Saab
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Tanshanomi was starred Tanshanomi was unstarred

wkiernan
11/24/09

@Tanshanomi: so good, APPLAUSE
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DoctorNine promoted this comment wkiernan was starred wkiernan was unstarred

LuciferV8
09:34 AM

@Tanshanomi: Another piece of quality work.
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LuciferV8 was starred LuciferV8 was unstarred

YankBoffin
11/24/09

In reply to Five Best And Worst Black Friday New Car Deals
I need a little help with understanding the AWD Dodge problem. Why is it less desirable? Poorer fuel economy? Fewer engine choices? For a family looking for a affordable big sedan that is good in the snow, this might be appealing.
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YankBoffin was starred YankBoffin was unstarred

yachius
11/24/09

@YankBoffin: It gets poorer fuel economy and doesn't corner as well but most importantly, there are much better AWD cars for the price. Most people looking at the Charger in the first place want a RWD muscle car. People looking for an AWD family sedan don't immediately think of a Charger.
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YankBoffin promoted this comment Edited by yachius at 11/24/09 2:25 PM yachius was starred yachius was unstarred

YankBoffin
11/24/09

@yachius: Just checked the website, [www.dodge.com] and looking at the prices Sam quotes, the deal would be to get an AWD SXT for the price of the stripper SE base model. So, that doesn't just get you AWD, you as get the bigger V6, 5-spd auto, TC, ESP, "performance brakes", and more. Nobody wants the wimpy underpowered base model, even if it does have more mpg.
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yachius
11/24/09

@YankBoffin: I didn't look at the deal but what you've quoted is correct then it sounds like Dodge is trying very hard to move an unpopular model that is sitting on their lots. There aren't many other reasons to lower the price of a premium model so drastically.
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yachius was starred yachius was unstarred

bmoreDLJ
11/24/09

In reply to BREAKING: Saab, Koenigsegg Deal Off
Aw, shucks. Here's the scorecard:

Pontiac: dead
Saturn Deal: off
Opel Deal: off
Saab Deal: off
HUMMER Deal: 不知道.
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bmoreDLJ was starred bmoreDLJ was unstarred

Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet
11/24/09

In reply to Five Best And Worst Black Friday New Car Deals
They all seem like pretty good deals. Especially the Ford offer: cars people want from a US manufacturer that's not bankrupt.
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zerofritz
11/24/09

@Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet: i have never known zero percent financing to actually be a bad thing, relative to, you know, paying for financing.
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Alfisted
11/24/09

In reply to Five Best And Worst Black Friday New Car Deals
Subaru does build cars I want (and even bought) ... it's the image and segmentation I could do without. I am not a lefty, lesbian, tree hugger or whirled peaser by any stretch. I just want a reasonably reliable, fast, AWD wagon.
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Alfisted was starred Alfisted was unstarred

Sportwagons, haulin' stuff and haulin' balls
11/24/09

@Alfisted: We may be on different sides of the political spectrum, but we can agree on a nice sportwagon. There's some consensus-building!

Problem is, I don't want any of Subaru's current-gen models under my tree. Blech.
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Alfisted promoted this comment

Alfisted
11/24/09

@Sportwagons, haulin' stuff and haulin' balls: I'm not so put off by the current Impreza, but it is a travesty what they've done with everything else.

#tips
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Alfisted was starred Alfisted was unstarred

abgwin
11/24/09

@Alfisted: it's fairly sad that you would be more concerned with what your friends and neighbors think about the car you drive than driving the car you think you want to drive.

I mean, seriously, if you're concerned they'll confuse you for a tree-hugging lesbian, you've got more problems than just choosing a car can solve (or create).
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Alfisted promoted this comment abgwin was starred abgwin was unstarred

Alfisted
11/24/09

@abgwin: Easy big fella. I bought the car.

#tips
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Alfisted was starred Alfisted was unstarred

Sportwagons, haulin' stuff and haulin' balls
11/24/09

@Alfisted: Who cares what people think of your car. Besides, lesbians have a very important preference in common with me.
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Alfisted promoted this comment

Alfisted
11/24/09

@Sportwagons, haulin' stuff and haulin' balls: It's not what others think of my car. It's that I think Subaru could more successfully attain their objectives (the Legacy GT was intended to rival the 3-series and A4) if they would ease up on running promotions and advertising that play to a stereotype.

#tips
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Alfisted was starred Alfisted was unstarred

Sportwagons, haulin' stuff and haulin' balls
11/24/09

@Alfisted: My question was purely rhetorical, not directed at anyone in particular, just kinda "who cares?".

I'd wager that Subaru is giving in to the natural inclinations of a large part of their buyers. In other words, the preferences of their buyers are driving their marketing, not the other way around. When my 2005 GT wagon was introduced, they had Lance Armstrong in the commercials touting the performance ("quicker than a Porsche Boxter"). But that clearly didn't shift the perception of the brand away from AWD+safety+practicality.
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abgwin
11/24/09

@Alfisted: I would hazard a guess that their marketing budget is seperate from their R&D budget, and whether or not they target niche markets has little or nothing to do with whether or not the boys and girls in product direction think they should shoot for BMW territory.

And in any event, Subaru has been steadily gaining market share and one of the only brands increasing sales over previous years, so something is working - prob in both marketing AND development.

Now relax and buy a flannel shirt and some Birkenstocks.
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Alfisted promoted this comment abgwin was starred abgwin was unstarred

Alfisted
11/24/09

@abgwin: Dang, I already have several flannels and a pair of Birkenstocks, along with a Subie wagon. Maybe I'm not who I think I am.
#tips
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TRAMS_AM
11/24/09

@Alfisted: You own an Asian Volvo. Maybe get a louder BOV?
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Alfisted promoted this comment TRAMS_AM was starred TRAMS_AM was unstarred

Alfisted
11/24/09

@TRAMS_AM: Only if it's a duck call.

#tips
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Alfisted was starred Alfisted was unstarred

Tanshanomi
11/24/09

In reply to Five Best And Worst Black Friday New Car Deals
Good Deal #6
What: Keeping my '92 Town Car
Where: My driveway
Regular Price: Gift from my elderly mother-in-law.
Black Friday Price: The cost of fixing the electric windows and recharging the A/C whenever I have the cash and get around to it—probably next spring with my tax refund.
Why It's A Good Deal: Zero down, zero interest, zero monthly payments, zero for comprehensive insurance, forever.
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Edited by Tanshanomi at 11/24/09 12:24 PM Tanshanomi was starred Tanshanomi was unstarred

LuciferV8
11/24/09

@Tanshanomi: Ahhh, the never-ending advantages in avoiding the stealership...
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LuciferV8 was starred LuciferV8 was unstarred

Paul Y. don't drive too fast.
11/24/09

In reply to Five Best And Worst Black Friday New Car Deals
Regarding the AWD Charger: more is more, and therefore better; the word 'upgrade' improves anything.
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Tanshanomi
11/24/09

In reply to Five Best And Worst Black Friday New Car Deals
building cars people want?
What kind of a crazy business model is that?
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Tanshanomi was starred Tanshanomi was unstarred

Tiberiuswise is all ate up with sarcasm
11/24/09

@Tanshanomi: Where'd that star come from?
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Tanshanomi promoted this comment

Tanshanomi
11/24/09

@Tiberiuswise is all ate up with sarcasm: Ray decided I'd learned my lesson. I'm no longer grounded.
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Tanshanomi was starred Tanshanomi was unstarred

drewdrawshashtags
11/24/09

In reply to Five Best And Worst Black Friday New Car Deals
I don't need convincing that I want a BMW diesel, I've been begging for them for years.

I need convincing that I should spend $40,000+ in a recession on anything.
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drewdrawshashtags was starred

Straight6er
11/24/09

@drewdrawshashtags: The fastest way out of a recession would be to get everyone spending again. People panic about it in the beginning and hoard their money. This only makes it worse than it would have been originally
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drewdrawshashtags promoted this comment Straight6er was starred Straight6er was unstarred

drewdrawshashtags
11/24/09

@Straight6er: Great in theory, but overspending on a car because it's a "good deal" is a big part of what got us here in the first place.

I, and most Americans, don't have the cash to buy a $40K car, they borrow to the hilt for it. Then you lose your job or house value goes down and you've got nothing but debt and cool shit you have to sell off.

I'll keep looking at 2 year-old off-lease 3 Series for $25K, thanks.
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drewdrawshashtags was starred

Straight6er
12:42 AM

@drewdrawshashtags: This is very true. I hadn't really thought about the borrowing aspect, i was more in line with skulldriveshaft's thinking: spend it if you got it.

Also i like your choice of vehicle, depreciation can sure be handy :P

#tips
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Straight6er was starred Straight6er was unstarred

drewdrawshashtags
09:43 AM

@Straight6er: Ain't depreciation grand?
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drewdrawshashtags was starred

that ain't the way to have fun, son
11/24/09

In reply to Five Best And Worst Black Friday New Car Deals
Any vehicle sold by Wal-Mart.

Never mind. #8 fills that slot, nicely.
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mr_dude
11/24/09

In reply to Five Best And Worst Black Friday New Car Deals
You forgot the best deal of all: staying at home eating leftover turkey and watching Bond marathons.
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mr_dude was starred mr_dude was unstarred

Rust-MyEnemy
11/24/09

@mr_dude: Truly something to give thanks for!
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SlowMo (actually, there's no E on my R)
11/24/09

@mr_dude: or for another brand of ass-kicking, Ion is having a "FEastwood" marathon; a whole slew of Clint Eastwood movies. Holiday couch-surfing bonus QOTD: Who would win, Dirty Harry or the various generations of Bond?
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mr_dude promoted this comment

mr_dude
11/24/09

@SlowMo (actually, there's no E on my R): Ditka.
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mr_dude was starred mr_dude was unstarred

Rust-MyEnemy
11/24/09

In reply to BREAKING: Saab, Koenigsegg Deal Off
Must admit it sounded a bit too good to be true, like Weissman buying BMW.

Still, I've got £3.80 actual cash on me, right now. Put your hands in your pockets, guys.

Do they have a "Buy it now" button?
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Rust-MyEnemy was starred Rust-MyEnemy was unstarred

SantaRita
11/24/09

@Rust-MyEnemy: i've got 5$ on it.
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Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet promoted this comment SantaRita was starred SantaRita was unstarred

Mobius
11/24/09

In reply to BREAKING: Saab, Koenigsegg Deal Off
Such
An
Acrimonious
Breakup
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Mobius was starred Mobius was unstarred

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