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Detroit, 10:52 AM
Fri Dec 4
28 posts in the last 24 hours
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11/17/08
i want to see the auto industry succeed, but bailing out one industry while ignoring others is unfair and illogical. my family has depended on the auto industry since they immigrated here, but enough is enough. auto workers will have to do the same thing scientists have been doing for the last decade, adapting.
11/17/08
So while I do fall under the umbrella of working in a field closely related to the auto industry, their failure wouldn't be a negative.
11/17/08
GM finally has about 10 to 15 cars spread over GMC, Chevy, Cadillac, Saturn and Pontiac that I like, and that for the first time in my lifetime, too little too late.
11/17/08
a few years ago. I turned down a position in Columbia, South Carolina for a couple of reasons. One was the fact that I flew into Charlotte, and after collecting my rent-a-heap, was told that the best way to go would be to head on down to the Billy Graham highway (Why on earth would someone name a road for an evangelist), and when I went to my future employer (who was on the outskirts of Columbia) his first question was what church will I belong to? That was it.... I left.
Sorry for the rant....
11/17/08
She came back to the topic three more times in the interview, and each time I gave her the same response. Finally she got frustrated, and said, "Okay, off the record, why not?" I told her, "Those are aspects of my personal life, and it's nobody's business but my own. They don't impact how I do my job. You wouldn't ask me how my girlfriend is in bed, would you? Well my beliefs and my politics are not open for other people to debate either."
She was quite offended, but continued the interview. The article ended up being about ten sentences long. Looks like all she wanted was gossip for the town to talk about in coffee shops.
11/18/08
11/17/08
They will get all the money that is needed, that is not the problem... but what are they going to do with that money is the problem.
If they are just going to mend what is there, than they are just buying time before going down completely... I think the taxpayer needs firm proof that the money is going to be invested in products that have a future.
So, stop the scare tactics and talk solutions we can believe in!
11/17/08
First is the cars, they are getting their asses kicked by foreign competition. Sure gas mileage needs to be better, but the cars need to be desirable again.
Second is their employees: A lot of cuts need to be made, and would you rather lose your job or take a pay cut? Start with major pay/benefit cuts at the top and go all the way down through. Want to go on strike to protest? Fine, just be sure to lineup at the Unemployment office instead of the plant)
11/17/08
Yea, that'll work. People will really want to start buying GM products once that happens.
11/17/08
They aren't getting the loan no questions asked. No more of that. Each company that's receiving money needs to outline in detail exactly what they're going to do with it. We'll also need bond company stooges to stalk whoever ends up as the new management of those companies and make sure the money is being put to good use (no ski getaways or Nazi swinger parties.)
And management? Wagoner, Mullaly, and Nardelli are out. Today. Now. Nothing will change under their watch. Even if they are talented businessmen, or victims of this downturn, they cannot be allowed to keep their jobs. Call it a sacrifice to the taxpaying gods - Americans.
It's nothing personal...although some of Wagoner's recent, disgustingly arrogant comments lately threaten to make it personal. If the government bails you out, Wags, you are our employee, and you answer to us. And everybody is expendable, including you...pencilneck.
If the usage of the $25 billion is closely observed and accounted for, the companies have concrete strategies for future profitability laid out in advance, and the people who presided over this crisis are cut away, I think we can have a deal, auto industry.
And oh yes...you'll also have to pay back the loan as well...with interest. If you don't think you can do that, don't bother asking for a loan in the first place.
You are on thin ice, my friends, and if and when it breaks, no parachute of any precious metal will save you from the bankruptcy below.
11/18/08
Delenda est Cartago.
11/17/08
11/17/08
11/17/08
These are the same a**holes who constantly argue, agitate and voraciously lobby against any kind of govt. intervention. Safety standards, workplace regulations, taxes, employee rights, etc., etc........ They constantly whine to "let the market decide" (i.e. if customers want seatbelts, they will pay for them) and now what do they say? That if the govt. doesn't intervene, the sky is going to fall!!
F*ck 'em.
11/17/08
Plus, when the economy is strong again and it will get there, if there are no American cars to even buy then even more of our money will be going overseas to other economies and not staying here in our own. That is a bad thing just so you know.
11/17/08
11/17/08
Except you realize the damn gov't regulation is a huge driver of where we're at right? You might want to figure out what CAFE IS, and how it has screwed the auto industry.
So, I guess you are F-ing yourself and I don't look forward to meeting you in the unemployment line.
11/17/08
So what's your answer? Keep propping them up? What's to keep them from making even worse business decisions in the future and when they inevitably fail, have them coming back to Congress and asking for another handout with the threat of a quarter million unemployed Americans?
11/17/08
And yes, principled positions are rarely easy ones to keep.
11/17/08
They can whine all they want about regulations but the fact of the matter is had they worked to diversify their product lines and interest Americans in something they had to offer more than trucks and SUV's, they wouldn't be doing nearly so bad.
They need(ed) a more diverse product line and they needed to build the "brand" of their smaller and more fuel efficient vehicles but instead, they chased the gravy train of trucks and SUV's for 10+ years and made quite a bit of money in the effort. But they either did not foresee the future or chose to ignore it and now not only are they going to pay for it, but we all will.
Don't worry, I do not look forward to meeting anyone in unemployment.
11/18/08
11/17/08
So I looked at all the cars that are in the same boat as this Sportage and there are a lot. If you drive a Camry then I doubt you're a motor head and you certainly aren't a huge fan boy of Camry's so why not the Malibu? Its a far better looking car and again just as dependable.
I think Americans are our own worst enemy in some ways and we are so unforgiving of our own people. All I'm saying is that if in fact you could buy an American product thats just as good or better than a foreign competitor then maybe you should at least give it considerable consideration. BTW, I drive a Lexus.
11/17/08
So you obviously don't believe in happiness or fun or pleasure.
I'll bet you're a terrorist. Terrorists drive Lexus... uh.... Lexi.
Sorry, I didn't make it any further than that in your post. I'll go back and read it properly now.
11/17/08
I don't think anyone around here is so fanboyish as to disagree with that. But I think the momentum on quality domestic vehicles takes a while to build up and it's just not quite there yet.
If the domestics would build some wagons, I'd be all over it (I need more than a sedan, but less than a truck). Especially Fusion or Malibu--both very nice cars.
11/17/08
I already HAVE a sports car that I have no intention of letting go anytime soon. To that end, I very, very much enjoyed driving the MKZ. There are times you just need a comfortable, functional car. And for about $25k CDN (2008, used, still under warranty), that is one hell of a bargain.
Amen on the absence of wagons. Please see about every fourth post I've made since February; I think it's safe to say I agree with you (and TampaRon) wholeheartedly.
11/17/08
11/17/08
11/17/08
It's really pathetic how misinformed some people are.
11/17/08
On that note, my girlfriend mentioned last night that her mom was thinking about trading in their Kia Magentis (Optima south of the 49th) on a new Sportage, since they've had no problems with it. Likewise, my parents just bought a year-old Sonata because they were happy with the Elantra it replaced (they barely looked at anything else).
For what it's worth, I drive an old Cavalier, and it hasn't soured me on GM.
11/17/08
Strangely, I still loves me some Audi though.
11/17/08
Funny... because Audi has typically been the more conservative of the Germans when it comes to looks.
11/17/08
11/17/08
Ask not! What this company can make for you! But what you can give to this company!
And then they finish, the lights come down a bit, and they see that the auditorium has about six people, one of whom is sleeping.
The sleeping one is me. Humans should not have to get up this early.
11/17/08
11/17/08
11/17/08
11/17/08
Besides, far more people would be affected at the dealership level, since the Big 3 dealers dominate most of the state. We definitely have skin in the game, so I can see both sides.
11/17/08
But with less competition they can envision less layoffs needed, and big growth in the future. Mr. Astley is pretty accurate on his assesment of where these guys's loyalties lie, and it isn't American companies or well being, but that of THEIR little state.
11/17/08
But they did vote similarly with the banking debacle, which affects our state manyfold more severely than anything auto-related.
11/17/08
11/17/08
"Why not correct the market interventions that make American auto manufacturing unprofitable in the first place - something that can be done at zero cost to overstressed taxpayers?"
11/17/08
GM incurs $1500+ in health care costs per car before it bends a single piece of steel. [www.usatoday.com]
Japanese, German, and Korean workers health care is paid for by their national government.
Plus, the US is paying more for health care on a per capita basis and it consumes over 15% of our GDP. If we want to be globally competitive, we need to play by the globe's rules.
Total Health Expenditures Per Capita, U.S. and Selected Countries, 2003
11/18/08
US car makers (corporations in general) have always been opposed to socialized health care and higher taxes. So instead, because of UAW clout, they have had to pay for it directly, hoping that constant growth would make this possible. They made their bed, etc etc.
US healthcare is uniquely expensive, because of the profit motive inherent in the single payer system.
Upon rereading your post, it dawns upon me that maybe this is already evident to you, so I hope I don't come across as too aggressive.
11/17/08
You got yourself in this mess and haven't done anything to get yourself out except beg for money. If you were some random homeless guy on the D train going on about how you were bankrupt and you needed money to survive I'd just ignore you since you put yourself in that situation and instead of doing something to get out of it you come and beg people for money? You don't deserve a cent.
11/17/08
Exactly hoe did they get them selves in there current position?
11/17/08
11/17/08
Get your head out of the 1980's. The current union contract makes them cost competitive. GM and Ford's quality match and exceed the market. Their new products are getting rave reviews. Time to visit a car dealership and check your outdated opinions at the door.
11/17/08
11/17/08
In the high school halls. In the shopping malls. In the basement bars. In the backs of cars.
11/17/08
/Sorry, I got a little carried away there.
11/17/08
We can not save them with a mouse.
We can not save them here or there.
We can not save them anywhere.
11/17/08
And on the street corners and Brothels
And in the city of Bothel
11/17/08
To the windows,
To the walls, till the sweat rolls down my #$%!s
Till all these females crawl
To all skeet skeet skeet skeet skeet skeet
11/17/08