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Detroit, 1:06 AM
Fri Dec 11
25 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of Jes St.Lawrence Jes St.Lawrence
    11/18/09

    In reply to Vehicle Weight Vs. Fuel Economy Study Ignores Gov Mandates
    "but when you leave out an obvious weight driver the whole affair is suspect."

    I read that as "but when you leave out the obvious driver weight, the whole affair is suspect."
     Reply
    Jes St.Lawrence was starred Jes St.Lawrence was unstarred
    Image of DrLemming DrLemming
    11/18/09

    In reply to Vehicle Weight Vs. Fuel Economy Study Ignores Gov Mandates
    I'm a live-and-let-live kind of guy. If other folks want more horsepower, they should have it if they want to pay for it. What bothers me is that today there is a much lower selection of high-mileage cars than even in the early 1990s. For example, I'd like to see a contemporary replacement for my 1991 Honda Civic wagon. It doesn't exist.

    I either have to move down market to a much smaller Fit, or up to a CRV.

    I don't want to do either. Nor is the lower gas mileage of a Matrix or Impreza very appealing despite the added safety features over my 1991 Civic. Nor do I want the added weight and complexity of a Prius.

    I also don't need all of the supposedly "must-have" bells and whistles such as power windows. Give me something light, simple and versatile with gas mileage at least in the mid-30s -- without having to switch to a hybrid.

    Please? #fueleconomy
     Reply
    DrLemming was starred DrLemming was unstarred
    Image of gunluva is prepared to drop. gunluva is prepared to drop.
    11/17/09

    In reply to Vehicle Weight Vs. Fuel Economy Study Ignores Gov Mandates
    That picture is the car the Boomer from L4D drives. #fueleconomy
     Reply
    gunluva is prepared to drop. was starred gunluva is prepared to drop. was unstarred
    Image of Ford Tempo Fanatic Ford Tempo Fanatic
    11/17/09

    In reply to Chevy Family Photo Op: Mass-Marketing MPG And MPG For The Masses, Together At Last
    I'm going to pop open a cold one on the day GM officially announces there will never be a Chevy Volt mass produced for the 'Merican consumer. #laautoshow
     Reply
    Ford Tempo Fanatic was starred Ford Tempo Fanatic was unstarred
    Image of Mr.choppers - Delenda Carthago Est Mr.choppers - Delenda Carthago Est
    11/17/09

    @Ford Tempo Fanatic: I'll just wearily shake my head. Then I'll pop a bottle of whiskey, but not necessarily out of a sense of celebration. #laautoshow
     Reply
    Mr.choppers - Delenda Carthago Est was starred Mr.choppers - Delenda Carthago Est was unstarred
    Image of Ben Wojdyla Ben Wojdyla
    11/17/09

    @Ford Tempo Fanatic: Based on what I've seen and know, you'll never get a chance to pop that cold one open. Sorry. #laautoshow
     Reply
    Ben Wojdyla was starred Ben Wojdyla was unstarred
    Image of philibuster philibuster
    11/17/09

    In reply to Chevy Family Photo Op: Mass-Marketing MPG And MPG For The Masses, Together At Last
    Will the cruze be better than the fiesta? #laautoshow
     Reply
    philibuster was starred philibuster was unstarred
    Image of brandegee brandegee
    11/17/09

    In reply to Chevy Family Photo Op: Mass-Marketing MPG And MPG For The Masses, Together At Last
    Is this the car we knew Korea could build for us? #laautoshow
     Reply
    brandegee was starred brandegee was unstarred
    Image of that ain't the way to have fun, son that ain't the way to have fun, son
    11/17/09

    In reply to Chevy Family Photo Op: Mass-Marketing MPG And MPG For The Masses, Together At Last
    Too bad this can't be a direct-injection 1.4L TD. Then we'd get 260 torques and 65 MPG.

    Oh, and it'd last forever...or until some bonehead put gasoline in it a 15th time. #laautoshow
     Reply
    that ain't the way to have fun, son was starred that ain't the way to have fun, son was unstarred
    Image of duurtlang duurtlang
    11/18/09

    @that ain't the way to have fun, son:
    It's available in Europe already, with a 2 liter turbodiesel with 150 HP. It's not very economical though, for European standards that is.
     Reply
    that ain't the way to have fun, son promoted this comment duurtlang was starred duurtlang was unstarred
    Image of that ain't the way to have fun, son that ain't the way to have fun, son
    11/18/09

    @duurtlang: Which means it slam-dunks anything, here.

    Grrrrr.

    #tips
     Reply
    that ain't the way to have fun, son was starred that ain't the way to have fun, son was unstarred
    Image of Motor_Yakuza Motor_Yakuza
    11/17/09

    In reply to Chevy Family Photo Op: Mass-Marketing MPG And MPG For The Masses, Together At Last

    Cobalt Coupe replacement? #laautoshow
     Reply
    Motor_Yakuza was starred Motor_Yakuza was unstarred
    Image of Motor_Yakuza Motor_Yakuza
    11/17/09


    @Motor_Yakuza: #laautoshow
     Reply
    The-Simpsons-Rule!! promoted this comment Motor_Yakuza was starred Motor_Yakuza was unstarred
    Image of underwear-ninja underwear-ninja
    11/17/09

    @Motor_Yakuza: You intrigued me until I saw the Daewoo badge. BZZZT! WRONG! FAIL! #laautoshow
     Reply
    underwear-ninja was starred underwear-ninja was unstarred
    Image of Motor_Yakuza Motor_Yakuza
    11/17/09


    @underwear-ninja: LoL, sorry , but the Cruze is sold as a Daewoo Lacetti , I don't like that to much but you have to talk to GM about that. Is that "Ask Fritz or Tell Fritz" thingy still on? #laautoshow
     Reply
    The-Simpsons-Rule!! promoted this comment Motor_Yakuza was starred Motor_Yakuza was unstarred
    Image of FTGDWolverineEdition'09 FTGDWolverineEdition'09
    11/17/09

    In reply to Chevy Family Photo Op: Mass-Marketing MPG And MPG For The Masses, Together At Last
    09' 1.4 GTDI: 140 hp
    90' 5.0 L02 v8 (Base): 140 hp

    We did come a long way. #laautoshow
     Reply
    FTGDWolverineEdition'09 was starred FTGDWolverineEdition'09 was unstarred
    Image of Motor_Yakuza Motor_Yakuza
    11/17/09

    In reply to Chevy Family Photo Op: Mass-Marketing MPG And MPG For The Masses, Together At Last

    So, how much until this thing will arrive? #laautoshow
     Reply
    Pessimippopotamus promoted this comment Motor_Yakuza was starred Motor_Yakuza was unstarred
    Image of Pessimippopotamus Pessimippopotamus
    11/17/09

    @Motor_Yakuza: Not soon enough. #laautoshow
     Reply
    Pessimippopotamus was starred Pessimippopotamus was unstarred
    Image of Racin_G73 - dirt track legend (some day ... maybe) Racin_G73 - dirt track legend (some day ... maybe)
    11/17/09

    In reply to Chevy Family Photo Op: Mass-Marketing MPG And MPG For The Masses, Together At Last
    Do they have an appearance package on that Cruze that will disguise its underlying appliance-like features? You know... like a 'Sport' or 'GT' deal? The description of the engine, along with a manual transmission and the assumed low curb weight sound kind of fun. But it looks like it might put me to sleep. #laautoshow
     Reply
    YankBoffin promoted this comment Racin_G73 - dirt track legend (some day ... maybe) was starred Racin_G73 - dirt track legend (some day ... maybe) was unstarred
    Image of YankBoffin YankBoffin
    11/17/09

    @Racin_G73 - dirt track legend (some day ... maybe): Good point. Anybody know what the curb weight of the Cruze is? Wiki turned up nothing. #laautoshow
     Reply
    YankBoffin was starred YankBoffin was unstarred
    Image of Pessimippopotamus Pessimippopotamus
    11/17/09

    @YankBoffin: 2,844lbs to 2,899lbs #laautoshow
     Reply
    Pessimippopotamus was starred Pessimippopotamus was unstarred
    Image of Racin_G73 - dirt track legend (some day ... maybe) Racin_G73 - dirt track legend (some day ... maybe)
    11/17/09

    @Pessimippopotamus: I kept seeing 2750 lbs. But let's go with 2850. I'm also seeing horsepower figures of 138 - 140. (Though I see there's a 1.6 liter that makes only 112, probably in Europe.) With 138 hp and 2850 lbs., that's a hp:wt ratio of about 1:20.

    Just for s*$ts and giggles, I tried to find the 2010 VW GTI figures for the same. I see a curb weight of 3100 - 3200 lbs. with horsepower figures of 197 and 211. Going with 197 and 3100 lbs, this gives us hp: wt ratio of 1:16 or 1 hp for every 16 lbs. of weight. That's substantially better performance... so how about something a little less challenging? Anybody got any ideas of a sporty little fuel sipper with four doors? #laautoshow
     Reply
    YankBoffin promoted this comment Edited by Racin_G73 - dirt track legend (some day ... maybe) at 11/17/09 3:10 PM Racin_G73 - dirt track legend (some day ... maybe) was starred Racin_G73 - dirt track legend (some day ... maybe) was unstarred
    Image of nataku8_e30 nataku8_e30
    11/17/09

    @Racin_G73 - dirt track legend (some day ... maybe): The fit is 117 HP and 2520 lbs, so 21.54 lbs / HP

    Also, the fit is only rated 33 mpg highway... #laautoshow
     Reply
    YankBoffin promoted this comment nataku8_e30 was starred nataku8_e30 was unstarred
    Image of YankBoffin YankBoffin
    11/17/09

    @Pessimippopotamus: Interesting. That's about the same weight and horsepower as the wife's 2002 Protege5, which is indeed quite fun to drive. However, it definitely doesn't get close to 40mpg. #laautoshow
     Reply
    YankBoffin was starred YankBoffin was unstarred
    Image of Racin_G73 - dirt track legend (some day ... maybe) Racin_G73 - dirt track legend (some day ... maybe)
    11/17/09

    @nataku8_e30: Excellent comparison! So the Fit is a little peppier, but doesn't get you into the "4's" for fuel mileage. The Fit was on my list when I last went shopping for a new car. But at the time you couldn't even find one with a stick shift to take out for a test drive. :( I ended up going with the Scion xB after ruling out the Aveo, the Rio, the Ion, something from Suzuki... can't remember them all now. I had about 12 cars I was looking at. So, comparing the xB to the Fit, the xB has 103 - 108 horsepower and weighs 2415 lbs. That gives it a hp:wt ratio of about 1 to 23... which explains why I had to get a stick shift just so it felt like I was having any fun while driving it. But it does get 30+ mpg in my semi-aggressive driving. By those numbers, I suppose the Cruze would be a step up in performance for me... #laautoshow
     Reply
    Racin_G73 - dirt track legend (some day ... maybe) was starred Racin_G73 - dirt track legend (some day ... maybe) was unstarred
    Image of nataku8_e30 nataku8_e30
    11/17/09

    @Racin_G73 - dirt track legend (some day ... maybe): ...not quite - remember, the estimated weight / power ratio from a previous commenter for the Cruze was conservatively estimated at 20.65, so actually the Cruze has a lbs LESS to carry around per HP than the Fit. The Cruze is the peppier car in this case.

    This whole exercise though is a bit deceptive, though. The gearing and torque curve shape will actually affect driveability more than the weight / power ratio, especially when you're talking such "underpowered" cars. Since I don't have any real information on the Cruze, I would bet that it has a much lower torque peak or flatter curve than the fit, since it's using a turbocharger. Plus, since it is a bit heavier and more powerful and judging by it's highway fuel economy number, more aerodynamic as well, you're likely to see a significantly higher top speed (which is pretty irrelevant under the normal driving conditions these will see) and, more importantly, much better acceleration at freeway speeds and passing ability. #laautoshow
     Reply
    nataku8_e30 was starred nataku8_e30 was unstarred
    Image of Pessimippopotamus Pessimippopotamus
    11/17/09

    In reply to Chevy Family Photo Op: Mass-Marketing MPG And MPG For The Masses, Together At Last
    We used to get awesome North American premieres like the Bugatti Veyron, Ferrari 599 GTB and the Venturi Fétish.

    This year we get some run of the mill Chevy and a Toyota van. #laautoshow
     Reply
    Pessimippopotamus was starred Pessimippopotamus was unstarred
    Image of ShantJ ShantJ
    11/17/09

    @Pessimippopotamus: The Fétish is sold here? #laautoshow
     Reply
    Pessimippopotamus promoted this comment ShantJ was starred ShantJ was unstarred
    Image of wrx-tyrannosaurusWrx wrx-tyrannosaurusWrx
    11/17/09

    @Pessimippopotamus: Its too true. Sad, really, but we actually stand a chance of buying these cars. #laautoshow
     Reply
    wrx-tyrannosaurusWrx was starred wrx-tyrannosaurusWrx was unstarred
    Image of Pessimippopotamus Pessimippopotamus
    11/17/09

    @ShantJ: Is the Fétish even sold anywhere? #laautoshow
     Reply
    Pessimippopotamus was starred Pessimippopotamus was unstarred
    Image of FTGDWolverineEdition'09 FTGDWolverineEdition'09
    11/17/09

    In reply to Vehicle Weight Vs. Fuel Economy Study Ignores Gov Mandates

    Sorry, I am more interested in this. #fueleconomy
     Reply
    FTGDWolverineEdition'09 was starred FTGDWolverineEdition'09 was unstarred
    Image of FTGDWolverineEdition'09 FTGDWolverineEdition'09
    11/17/09

    @FTGDWolverineEdition'09: And it still amazes me we could do this while improving FE. #fueleconomy
     Reply
    FTGDWolverineEdition'09 was starred FTGDWolverineEdition'09 was unstarred
    Image of 6Buck 6Buck
    11/17/09

    In reply to Vehicle Weight Vs. Fuel Economy Study Ignores Gov Mandates
    Bad science and poor presentation still makes for a great excuse for a Caterham 7. #fueleconomy
     Reply
    area_educator promoted this comment 6Buck was starred 6Buck was unstarred
    Image of duurtlang duurtlang
    11/17/09

    In reply to Vehicle Weight Vs. Fuel Economy Study Ignores Gov Mandates
    Obviously the author is right that if we put 2009 engines/drivetrains in 1980 cars fuel economy would improve more than it did in the last 29 years. If you add the increased aerodynamics the change would even be more dramatic. But apparently that's not what consumers want. And consumers get what they want. Capitalism you know. Apparently the 15% improvement over the last 29 years was enough for them. If you were to argue that it isn't enough the only thing to do is to increase fuel prices *ducks and runs*

    What I don't get are the differences in lineup between Europe and the US. In Europe you can get 5-10 different engines per popular model. Like the Opel Insignia. Some slow and frugal, others fast and thirsty. So consumers can choose. From reading this site I get the impression the (relatively) slow and frugal engines aren't even available in the US, so consumers have less to choose from. #fueleconomy
     Reply
    area_educator promoted this comment duurtlang was starred duurtlang was unstarred
    Image of area_educator area_educator
    11/17/09

    @duurtlang: "Obviously the author is right that if we put 2009 engines/drivetrains in 1980 cars "

    New hobby! #fueleconomy
     Reply
    area_educator was starred area_educator was unstarred
    Image of duurtlang duurtlang
    11/17/09

    @area_educator:
    I've been thinking about doing just that for a long time. Buying an early eighties/late seventies Citroën with a deceased engine, and replacing that engine with something very recent with 150% of the power and 75% of fuel consumption. Too bad my wrenching experience doesn't go much further than changing fluids, and my toolbox doesn't contain much more than a hammer. Luckily there's nothing you cannot fix with a hammer. #fueleconomy
     Reply
    duurtlang was starred duurtlang was unstarred
    Image of Mr.choppers - Delenda Carthago Est Mr.choppers - Delenda Carthago Est
    11/17/09

    @duurtlang: Yeah, there isn't really any choice here. The few cars that are available here usually only come with one engine, sometimes with one or two options available. I can't quite fathom why, except that consumers don't really understand what they need from their cars.

    Also, because gas is so cheap that it doesn't make any sense to buy an efficient vehicle. #fueleconomy
     Reply
    Mr.choppers - Delenda Carthago Est was starred Mr.choppers - Delenda Carthago Est was unstarred
    Image of Mr.choppers - Delenda Carthago Est Mr.choppers - Delenda Carthago Est
    11/17/09

    @duurtlang: A Citroën CX with the low output Mazda RX-8 engine would be awesome. I don't know that it would save you any gas, though... #fueleconomy
     Reply
    Mr.choppers - Delenda Carthago Est was starred Mr.choppers - Delenda Carthago Est was unstarred
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