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Detroit, 3:31 AM
Sat Dec 12
24 posts in the last 24 hours
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06/02/09
Face facts, SUVs are rolling piles of steaming dung. They make no sense and are quite useless.
06/02/09
...that's why you have a dually GMC from the Reagan era to go with your family minivan/wagon. Tell me about it.
06/02/09
Or do they only sell used xAs and first-gen xBs?
06/02/09
Since the world market outside the US is going to grow (China, India, Russia, South America) at a rate never seen before, it is more and more important to have car models that can compete in those markets in order to thrive or survive as a car brand.
.
So, even if Americans buy loads of those "American" cars, nobody outside of the US will, meaning the US car companies will become even less competitive than they already are, compared to those that do sell cars in those emerging markets.
Only solution for US carmakers is to build cars that can be sold outside the US too, meaning that the average American has to get used to the fact that they have to change their habits... (and not just driving habits)
06/02/09
06/02/09
They're still building the Sequoia, Tundra, and Ridgeline, right? And the Venza?
How about the Armada? And Lexus still exists, as far as I know.
So they are, indeed.
06/02/09
06/02/09
06/02/09
The Toyota Corolla is stale looking and the Yaris really has no track record and the horrible location of the speedometer cluster.
The Nissan Sentra is just plain ugly.
Folks still are looking for decent gas mileage, so I guess the trucks aren't doing well anywhere.
The American side quality has gotten so much better of late and starting to put up some competition.
Toyota, Honda, and Nissan have to stay on their toes or they, too, will suffer. They have had it so good for so long, but maybe there's a chink in the armor. Hope so.
06/02/09
Camry? Yeah, same deal with the Camry. At least it doesn't have the jacked-up ass end that the previous-gen did.
06/02/09
I have one with 270,000 trouble free miles on it. I still get 41 mpg each tank!
06/02/09
06/03/09
I don't know, the nose of the current Camry needs some serious rhinoplasty, that thing is hideous.
06/04/09
06/02/09
06/02/09
I just spat RC cola all over my desk.
06/02/09
06/02/09
06/02/09
06/02/09
Right. . .
06/02/09
Good news=DOES NOT COMPUTE
06/02/09
The first and the last items indicate that even the mighty Toyota (who everyone was obsessed with when I was at Ford) started to build "cars that nobody wanted".
The thing is, people did want these cars. Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, etc. would not have relied so heavily on trucks and SUVs if nobody wanted them. Throughout the 90s the SUV was the hot seller. Trucks have always sold well in the US. The change in fuel prices was so rapid that no carmaker could adjust to it. The development cycle is 5+ years. Fuel prices rose over the course of months last year.
They all realize that small cars are going to be the future. Predictions are that as soon as the economy in the US starts growing again oil will be back to $100/bbl. Ford is positioning themselves to capture a chunk of the market with the redesigned Focus (and seeking efficiencies by selling the same Focus here and in Europe) as well as by bringing the Fiesta here. Big families will still need big cars, so the Taurus, Fusion (along with it's Hybrid twin), and Flex will give buyers the large cars they want with decent to impressive fuel mileage. Trucks will continue to sell, but in lower numbers. Small vans like the Transit Connect (and probably the Transit to compete with the Sprinter) will sell more than the E-series.
The entire industry is in flux right now. It will be interesting to see who does what over the next year or so, because that will be an indicator of who is going to remain healthy over the long term.
06/02/09
I'd agree, the whole industry realizes things are changing. Small car buyers over the next 3-4 years will have many nice options now, the question is will they overtake the larger vehicles in sales while gas remains below $3.50 (the previous serious tipping point).
06/02/09
06/02/09
06/02/09
06/02/09
For instance, the Tacoma was designed with constant input from potential buyers, and ended up a bloated, fuel-hungry behemoth that was too expensive and comprehensive for real success. Much like the "Homermobile" from the old Simpsons episode. In a very competitive market, you have to target niches and be satisfied if you get a core following from those that like the product, and let other people find something else. You can't design the best car for everyone or no one will truly love it.
Indeed, Toyota is cruising on the fuel economy and reliability creds that they built in the '70s and '80s, much like Ford and GM loyalists in the '80s didn't buy far superior foreign vehicles because of the following and credibility that had been built for those brands over the decades before.
When Mazda was falling to pieces in the US market in the mid-'90s, they thought about the success of the Miata -- entered into the utterly dry small roadster category -- and made enthusiast versions of the compact/hatch, midsize, and sports cars. And now, anyone who doesn't hate driving (and is not blindly loyal to brand image) will take a 3 over a Corolla.
Same with Subaru -- Fuji Heavy almost pulled them from the US market but perfectly converted the reasons for the success of the GL-10 and then Legacy crowds in the pacific northwest and New England -- 4wd and safety, and after smacking Volvo around a little, took 4wd as a safety feature with bonus quasi-SUV qualities (the Outback) and found a following nationwide with safety-conscious families who didn't quite want a truck.
The success in the late '80s that Toyota had in Lexus taking on Merc and BMW executive-class sedans was in a few years brilliantly spread downmarket with the Avalon, for the late-career middle manager who would normally have bought a Buick Park Avenue. This (as far as I recall) is the first instance of a Japanese company directly targeting a car at an American-dominated segment, as opposed to simply introducing their own product and letting the US buyer come to them (they could have introduced the JDM Century instead of creating the Avalon). This worked, but has led to the targeting-to-the-perceived-buyer approach, and products with averaged-out qualities for the broadest appeal.
This is notwithstanding the Scion tC and xB, and the Lexus IS series, I suppose, but otherwise....pretty bland. Even the retro-cool FJ is bland for a niche product -- compare it to the Honda Element, which has a broad following amongst dog owners and scuba/watersports people.
06/02/09
06/02/09
Oh wait, cars, I remember now. I obviously can't speak for all Americans because they are sheep but foreign automakers aren't building many cars I want to buy. There's a few but they are prohibitively expensive and if I had that kind of scratch I'd still buy a(nother) Corvette. Before they're gone forever, banned by the enviro-nuts and the complicity and duplicity of the federal government. Jackasses.
What was the question again?
06/02/09
06/02/09
People buy small cars when gas is expensive, because they need cheap transportation, not because they want a small car.
The whole "big 3 are in trouble because they built vehicles no one wanted" myth doesn't hold water.. sales numbers are proof.
06/02/09
The only domestics I would want are the new Astra (not happening) or a Euro-spec Focus or Fiesta. I guess maybe a Panda or 500 might soon be considered a domestic though, so throw 'em on the list too.
06/02/09
Something about the idea of Italian-engineered/American-designed cars seems utterly and completely wrong.
06/02/09
Personally, though, my experience with modern Fiat engineering has been pretty positive. Drove a Mille Uno for a few years in Brazil and never had a problem, even with lots of back road trips to the interior.
06/03/09
06/02/09
Toyota: Tacoma, FJ Cruiser
Nissan: Frontier, 370z if I had the $
Subaru: WRX, Outback
Hyundai: Genesis, maybe
Audi: A3 (+ others, but too costly)
VW: GTI, Jetta Sportwagen
Honda: none
Kia: none
BMW: none (price)
Mercedes: none
Domestic:
Ford: Mustang
GM: Kappa Roadster, Camaro
Chrysler: Ram, Dakota-at-firesale
06/02/09
Toyota: nothing
Nissan: 370Z
Subaru: STi
Hyundai: Genesis coupe
Audi: Any of their sedans.
VW: GTI, CC
Honda: 4-Door Civic Si
Kia: None
BMW: 3-series sedan
Mercedes-Benz: New E-Class
Ford: F-150, Mustang, Taurus, Fusion, Fiesta
GM: G8, Kappa Roadster, Camaro, Malibu, Silverado, Enclave, CTS, new LaCrosse
Chrysler: Challenger, Grand Cherokee, Wrangler, Ram, Charger, 300C
In most cases (there are some obvious exceptions), for every class of vehicle offered by imported brands, there is a domestic equivalent that I would prefer.
06/02/09
Foreign cars i'd buy..
used kei car..
perhaps a genesis coupe or 370z
the rest bore me..
Domestic cars I'd buy
Camaro, Challenger, Diesel Ram, Yukon Denali, Wrangler Rubicon, CTS-V if I had the coin
Domestic car I bought:
08 Caddy CTS.. it's fuckin awesome.
06/02/09
It's funny no one mentioned Mazda, not even to say "none". The 3 looks like one of few desirable hatchbacks.
06/02/09
my buddy has a mazda 6.. it's passable.. not fond of the pontiac red light dash however.. i realize it's a different class than my CTS.. but i like my cts better..
06/02/09
@newfmike: We left out Lexus and Acura, too. Ooops.
@philibuster: Being on Jalopnik, I figured that those three letters were pretty much implied. :)
06/02/09
I've yet to warm up to the new Mazda3, but the last gen was decent. The RX-8 never did it for me (RX7 fan), and I don't need a sedan or crossover, but the 6 is handsome.
06/02/09
BMW: 2002
Chevy: nothing until the Cruze comes out
Chrysler: nothing
Dodge: A100 truck
Ford: Fusion Hybrid, Torino GT fastback, Model A
GMC: what's the point? Chevy makes it all "too"
Hummer: not at the point of a gun
Isuzu: NPR
Jag: anything with the V12
Kia: do you see Hyundai on this list? All right then
Lotus: Esprit Turbo
Mercury:XR7
Nash: '58 Rambler American
Oldsmobile: the puff of smoke they disappeared in
Plymouth: the "Prangler" chassis mule
smart: dumb
Scion: 1st gen xB, before it got obese
Toyota: nothing current
06/02/09
Hello?
GMC FWD Motorhome?
06/02/09
06/02/09
06/02/09
06/02/09
Well, on second thought, I might consider a new CTS-V or ZR-1.
06/02/09
This is more in line with if I were to buy a new car, what would I be likely to buy.
In reality, I'd likely buy a 1-3 year old, sub-40k mile example of any of the above.