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Detroit, 11:59 PM
Fri Nov 20
28 posts in the last 24 hours

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  • posts about #e85 more →

    Ford "Bobcat" Dual-Fuel Engine CAD Renderings: First Look At Future

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of Mad_Science Mad_Science
    06/08/09

    In reply to Ford "Bobcat" Dual-Fuel Engine CAD Renderings: First Look At Future
    It's either reality or just good PR, but Ford's doing a pretty kickass job of convincing me that they're, well, kicking ass compared to their domestic competition.


    When it comes to Ford news, it's new products and new tech that are all cutting-edge.


    GM's busy selling brands and getting rid of the one car I'd actually want to buy. Chrysler's basically become the Big Lots of automakers in my mind. Lots of leftovers at bargain prices.

     Reply
    Mad_Science was starred Mad_Science was unstarred
    Image of RLJ676-LS3 Commuter Car - for the environment RLJ676-LS3 Commuter Car - for the environment
    06/08/09

    @Mad_Science:


    Some of that is just perception/PR.


    GM still has the biggest fleet of fuel cell vehicles, is still refining a gas compression ignition engine, Volt, etc. Ford's powertrain tech isn't any further along than GM's.

     Reply
    RLJ676-LS3 Commuter Car - for the environment was starred RLJ676-LS3 Commuter Car - for the environment was unstarred
    Image of Mad_Science Mad_Science
    06/08/09

    @RLJ676-LS3 Commuter Car - for the environment: I'm looking in from the outside, so I can't really comment on perception Vs reality...


    ...aside from to say that they're at least equal in importance when you've got to convince the tax payer you're a viable business.

     Reply
    Mad_Science was starred Mad_Science was unstarred
    Image of Plecostomus [Tyrrell] Plecostomus [Tyrrell]
    06/08/09

    In reply to Ford "Bobcat" Dual-Fuel Engine CAD Renderings: First Look At Future
    553 lb/ft of torque!!!!


    I want that kind of tire melting goodness in a Ranger.

     Reply
    Plecostomus [Tyrrell] was starred Plecostomus [Tyrrell] was unstarred
    Image of engineerd engineerd
    06/08/09

    In reply to Ford "Bobcat" Dual-Fuel Engine CAD Renderings: First Look At Future
    Why has Ford not done cylinder deactivation?


    I mean, systems like this are cool and very innovative. They also represent significant fuel economy gains, which is pretty important with the new CAFE standards coming. However, I always wondered why Ford wasn't doing cylinder deactivation now like GM?

     Reply
    engineerd was starred engineerd was unstarred
    Image of skaycog was here skaycog was here
    06/08/09

    In reply to Ford "Bobcat" Dual-Fuel Engine CAD Renderings: First Look At Future
    I think the ladies would get more into engines if they were this colorful.
     Reply
    skaycog was here was starred skaycog was here was unstarred
    Image of pauljones pauljones
    06/08/09

    @skaycog: It's all about the colors, huh?

    So if I paint face to be this colorful, would girls be more into me? Or I am just altogether screwed?
     Reply
    pauljones was starred pauljones was unstarred
    Image of skaycog was here skaycog was here
    06/08/09

    @pauljones: Colors are important, but the main thing is performance. That'll get the girls every time.
     Reply
    skaycog was here was starred skaycog was here was unstarred
    Image of pauljones pauljones
    06/08/09

    @skaycog: No wonder I haven't had a date since I bought my Saturn.
     Reply
    pauljones was starred pauljones was unstarred
    Image of Brimful of Ash on the 78 Brimful of Ash on the 78
    06/08/09

    In reply to Ford "Bobcat" Dual-Fuel Engine CAD Renderings: First Look At Future
    Do the accessories and timing all run on a single belt? For some reason, I didn't think that was possible (or at least realistic).
     Reply
    Brimful of Ash on the 78 was starred Brimful of Ash on the 78 was unstarred
    Image of Turkina Turkina
    06/08/09

    @Ash78: Maybe they could get with the future and go for an electric water pump and A/C compressor. Get rid of excess belt-driven accessories!
     Reply
    Turkina was starred Turkina was unstarred
    Image of DoctorNine DoctorNine
    06/08/09

    @Turkina: "..Get rid of excess belt-driven accessories!!!"


    What I'm talkin' about...



    Having all those belt-driven accessories is SO 1960's...


     Reply
    DoctorNine was starred DoctorNine was unstarred
    Image of Kid Twist Kid Twist
    06/08/09

    In reply to Ford "Bobcat" Dual-Fuel Engine CAD Renderings: First Look At Future
    The American Family Association is not going to be happy about those lavender heat exchangers. [jalopnik.com]
     Reply
    Kid Twist was starred Kid Twist was unstarred
    Image of CaveTroll CaveTroll
    06/08/09

    In reply to Ford "Bobcat" Dual-Fuel Engine CAD Renderings: First Look At Future
    Make it a straight six with a steel block and head (for those higher compression ratios) and I'll take two.
     Reply
    CaveTroll was starred CaveTroll was unstarred
    Image of elwood elwood
    06/08/09

    @CaveTroll: Why's it gotta be a straight-six? A V-6 is better for packaging in the engine bay.
     Reply
    elwood was starred elwood was unstarred
    Image of CaveTroll CaveTroll
    06/08/09

    @elwood: Balance. A straight six naturally has perfect balance, whereas a V6 isn't nearly as good.
     Reply
    CaveTroll was starred CaveTroll was unstarred
    Image of elwood elwood
    06/08/09

    @CaveTroll: For the primary and secondary harmonics (the only vibrations that really affect anything, and the only ones that engineers design for), engine configuration doesn't make a difference. Number of cylinders is the main culprit of vibrations and balance.


    A 4-cylinder engine in any configuration will require extra balance shafts to completely balance things, while a 6-cylinder engine in any configuration can be completely balanced by the use of crankshaft counterweights.


    The I-6 is a common choice for heavy-duty diesel engines because, in ag and construction equipment, width is typically more important than length, and that it somewhat simplifies plumbing.

     Reply
    elwood was starred elwood was unstarred
    Image of CaveTroll CaveTroll
    06/08/09

    @elwood: Ah, yes, but the straight six doesn't need those counterweights or balance shafts, that means it has less reciprocating weight.


    @Chaparral: How is a straight six going to be heavier? Also, I don't think packaging is all the big of deal any more.

     Reply
    CaveTroll was starred CaveTroll was unstarred
    Image of Chaparral Chaparral
    06/08/09

    @CaveTroll: The bigger crankshaft is probably the biggest contributor. Just imagine standing on the edge of the a diving board, now imagine that diving board was half as long. Which one would bend down more, the longer or shorter one? Inline engines for this reason need more stiffing (for both bending and torsional loading) than a V-6, this adds weight.


    Yes, packaging is no longer an issue. As you can see modern engine bays have lots of empty room compared to engine bays in the past.


    Seriously though, how are you going to package a straight six in a front wheel drive car? Also hybrid, turbo-charging, and other new technologies are not going to suddenly make packing either.

     Reply
    Chaparral was starred Chaparral was unstarred
    Image of discontinuuity has left the Jalop until further notice discontinuuity has left the Jalop until further notice
    06/08/09

    @Chaparral: I believe Ford/Volvo/Land Rover has a few models with a transverse inline six. And there's always the Volkswagen VR6 which is great for small packaging but still needs balance shafts due to its 15 degree bank angle.


    If you want to understand the advantages of a V6 versus an I6, I would suggest reading the Wikipedia articles on both.

    [en.wikipedia.org]

    [en.wikipedia.org]


    The gist of it is that V6s, regardless of V angle, require some form of counterweights and balance shafts in order to be perfectly balanced, since they are essentially two inline three cylinder engines joined together. An inline six doesn't have these balancing problems because it has an even number of cylinders inline and therefore it can make more power per displacement. The only advantages that V6s have is in structural rigidity, lightness, and size.

     Reply
    discontinuuity has left the Jalop until further notice was starred discontinuuity has left the Jalop until further notice was unstarred
    Image of RLJ676-LS3 Commuter Car - for the environment RLJ676-LS3 Commuter Car - for the environment
    06/08/09

    In reply to Ford "Bobcat" Dual-Fuel Engine CAD Renderings: First Look At Future
    Do you mean "diesel like" performance in fuel economy, or ignitionless combustion? Or, is it just a super-high compression engine possible by using ethanol and it's very high octane, and then cooling it even further to even further increase compression?


    GM is working on a ignitionless gas engine which is functional under many conditions already, and generates pretty impressive economy.

     Reply
    RLJ676-LS3 Commuter Car - for the environment was starred RLJ676-LS3 Commuter Car - for the environment was unstarred
    Image of engineerd engineerd
    06/08/09

    @RLJ676-LS3 Commuter Car - for the environment: I read about GM's GCI engine. In theory it works, but only in a very narrow load/rpm band, which makes it difficult to incorporate into passenger cars. Computer controls help (this system was tinkered with like 40 years ago, but scrapped because it wasn't controllable at all), but it still has limited use as a primary motive.


    As a generator, though, it has promise. It could either be a staitionary gen-set for a house or the generator in a system similar to the Volt.

     Reply
    engineerd was starred engineerd was unstarred
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