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Detroit, 3:50 PM
Fri Dec 11
28 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of Xelmon Xelmon
    12/06/09

    In reply to 1940 Chrysler Windsor
    Wow... What a beauty!
     Reply
    Xelmon was starred Xelmon was unstarred
    Image of DrLemming DrLemming
    12/06/09

    In reply to 1940 Chrysler Windsor
    Tonyola makes an interesting point below about the decline of Chrysler quality. By 1953-54 Chrysler's market share was falling as Ford continued to pour huge resources into trying to catch up to GM, and GM responded by going "Hollywood."

    Once the premium-priced Buick started challenging the low-priced Plymouth for third place in sales, Chrysler management blamed its conservative approach to design. So Chrysler went Hollywood too. The 1955-56s were the first step in that direction. Encouraged by increased sales, Chrysler then sped the introduction of Exner's low-slung tailfins of glory. If I recall correctly, the 1957s were originally intended for 1959.

    Chrysler was merely playing follow-the-leader. In that era pretty much everyone was focusing on glitz at the expense of quality. The Edsel was the pinnacle of this attitude -- it was a "fancy" but utterly crappy car.

    Chrysler clearly didn't learn from Packard's ill-fated 1955s. The formerly conservative automaker introduced interesting innovations such as an"electric" torsion-level suspension, but they were pushed to market too fast -- and were riddled with quality-control problems.

    Ironically, Packard might have lasted longer if it had offered an old-fashioned but higher-quality alternative to the crap that the Big Three pumped out in the mid-to-late 50s.
     Reply
    DrLemming was starred DrLemming was unstarred
    Image of Kirk Douglas Kirk Douglas
    12/06/09

    @DrLemming: I take offense to your remark about Edsels, I happen to own four. The build quality is very...uneven, but the cars themselves feature a lot of interesting mechanical goodies. That is not in reference to the god-awful pushbutton auto transmission, which rarely survives in most cars.

    Look forward to seeing the hopeless basketcase '58 Edsel Pacer team at a Lemons event in the future.
     Reply
    DrLemming promoted this comment Kirk Douglas was starred Kirk Douglas was unstarred
    Image of DrLemming DrLemming
    12/07/09

    @Kirk Douglas: No offense intended. I've never driven an Edsel but recall reading a road test that pretty much panned the car, e.g., lots of body shake. Build quality is part of what I was talking about.

    Too many automakers at that time thought people would overlook quality issues if the styling was snazzy and the technology fresh. The public thought differently. By 1959 they had gotten so fed up with Detroit's fare that imports -- and the dowdy Rambler -- were selling like crazy.
     Reply
    DrLemming was starred DrLemming was unstarred
    Image of HoonThatFerrari HoonThatFerrari
    12/06/09

    In reply to 1940 Chrysler Windsor
    Great find, MM. This is definitely one of the coolest DOTS vehicles I've seen. Is it someone's daily driver, do you happen to know?
     Reply
    HoonThatFerrari was starred HoonThatFerrari was unstarred
    Image of Novaload Novaload
    12/06/09

    In reply to 1940 Chrysler Windsor
    Now that is a nose on a car.
    And those gauges could be framed and placed on a wall as a fine art work.
    All the details, all the trim.
    What a beauty!
     Reply
    Novaload was starred Novaload was unstarred
    Image of that ain't the way to have fun, son that ain't the way to have fun, son
    12/06/09

    In reply to 1940 Chrysler Windsor
    Oh, man.

    That is cool as hell.

    I still can't wrap my head around a vehicle that large being only 3,200 lbs.
     Reply
    that ain't the way to have fun, son was starred that ain't the way to have fun, son was unstarred
    Image of 87CapriceEstate 87CapriceEstate
    12/06/09

    My van weighs about that.
     Reply
    that ain't the way to have fun, son promoted this comment 87CapriceEstate was starred 87CapriceEstate was unstarred
    Image of that ain't the way to have fun, son that ain't the way to have fun, son
    12/06/09

    @87CapriceEstate:

    Is it a Kei van?

    Hell, even my '67 A-108 passenger van weighed 3,900. Though that might have been with two 100 lb. bench seats in the rear, too. Glass ain't light, either.
     Reply
    that ain't the way to have fun, son was starred that ain't the way to have fun, son was unstarred
    Image of MushyHeirloom MushyHeirloom
    12/06/09

    @that ain't the way to have fun, son: Crazy stuff - it's got an additional foot-plus of wheelbase over my 240, yet it weighs barely more (and the 240 isn't that heavy by modern standards)... It's certainly more stylish, too.
     Reply
    MushyHeirloom was starred MushyHeirloom was unstarred
    Image of 87CapriceEstate 87CapriceEstate
    12/06/09

    No, it's a 16 foot long 95 Voyager.
     Reply
    Edited by 87CapriceEstate at 12/06/09 2:14 PM 87CapriceEstate was starred 87CapriceEstate was unstarred
    Image of tonyola tonyola
    12/06/09

    In reply to 1940 Chrysler Windsor
    It might be hard to believe after decades of K-cars, Sebrings, LeBarons, and other dross, but there was a time when Chryslers were the solidest, most indestructible machines on the road. Not exciting, not glamorous, but conservative, substantial, and upper class. Even Buicks of the era seemed Hollywood by comparison. It all ended with the beautifully-styled but horribly-built and rust-prone 1957 cars - since then, Chrysler made some great and exciting machines but they also had an endless (and ultimately unsuccessful) struggle in trying to rebuild a tarnished reputation for quality.
     Reply
    tonyola was starred tonyola was unstarred
    Image of FairmontGT FairmontGT
    12/06/09

    @tonyola: I remember a 90-100 MPH ride to Hershey in a '48 Saratoga. Not enough o's in the word smooth to describe how that car rides.
     Reply
    tonyola promoted this comment FairmontGT was starred FairmontGT was unstarred
    Image of CJinSD CJinSD
    12/06/09

    @tonyola: The Valiant was a quality product.
     Reply
    tonyola promoted this comment CJinSD was starred CJinSD was unstarred
    Image of tonyola tonyola
    12/06/09

    @CJinSD: The Valiants (and Darts) were durable products, but not necessarily quality. The drivetrains and suspensions were unbreakable. However, the bodies were prone to rust and the quality of assembly could be patchy - the interior of my '75 Duster was downright shoddy, and I've seen plenty of other Valiants and Darts from the early '60s on with slapdash fit and finish.
     Reply
    Edited by tonyola at 12/06/09 1:17 PM tonyola was starred tonyola was unstarred
    Image of weatherman weatherman
    12/06/09

    In reply to 1970 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am
    That car ought to be taken away from its owner for neglect and given to a foster family that will care for it.

    If she were mine, oh and she will be mine some day, I'd paint her flat black all over but leave the stripe and Firebird emblem gloss. Put a 400 under the hood, some tint on the windows and buy her a nice new set of shoes, and she'd be perfect.
     Reply
    weatherman was starred weatherman was unstarred
    Image of 55Hardtop 55Hardtop
    12/06/09

    @weatherman: That's a Trans Am, so it has at least a 400 in it now.
     Reply
    weatherman promoted this comment 55Hardtop was starred 55Hardtop was unstarred
    Image of weatherman weatherman
    12/06/09

    @55Hardtop: good point. So all she really needs is some paint!
     Reply
    weatherman was starred weatherman was unstarred
    Image of 55Hardtop 55Hardtop
    12/08/09

    @weatherman: I wouldn't even paint it. Relish the beauty of patina, it gives the car character. Leave the trim rings off the factory steel rally wheels too!
     Reply
    55Hardtop was starred 55Hardtop was unstarred
    Image of Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet
    12/06/09

    In reply to 1940 Chrysler Windsor
    Very nice, and a great writeup. But as for personal comfort, there were wing windows and personally adjustable footwell vents. Can't complain about the improvements to tires, though.
     Reply
    Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet was starred Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet was unstarred
    Image of Paul Y. can't get in the club; gotta parking lot pimp Paul Y. can't get in the club; gotta parking lot pimp
    12/06/09

    @Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet: Brakes, too. Modern brakes kick ass and prevent dashboard-eating.
     Reply
    Paul Y. can't get in the club; gotta parking lot pimp was starred Paul Y. can't get in the club; gotta parking lot pimp was unstarred
    Image of AmishJohn AmishJohn
    12/06/09

    @Paul Y. can't get in the club; gotta parking lot pimp: Ah, but if you have to eat dash, what a luscious Deco buffet you'll be served...
     Reply
    AmishJohn was starred AmishJohn was unstarred
    Image of Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet
    12/06/09

    @Paul Y. can't get in the club; gotta parking lot pimp: I've almost sent a toolbox through the windshield from abrupt braking. Single master cylinder and four wheel drums, but newer than this pre-pentastar. But your brakes can never be too good, not grabby, just good.
     Reply
    Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet was starred Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet was unstarred
    Image of MushyHeirloom MushyHeirloom
    12/06/09

    @Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet: As someone who's broken a windshield from the inside, yes, it's very possible.

    I'll take some nice vent windows, though. I've always got the driver's window down a crack.
     Reply
    MushyHeirloom was starred MushyHeirloom was unstarred
    Image of Public Hotdog Public Hotdog
    12/06/09

    @Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet: "personally adjustable footwell vents"?

    You mean a crotch cooler.
     Reply
    Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet promoted this comment Public Hotdog was starred Public Hotdog was unstarred
    Image of Elhigh Elhigh
    12/05/09

    In reply to 1970 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am
    "Whose car is that, out front?"

    "Mine. 1970 Pontiac Firebird, the car I've always wanted, and now I have it. I rule!"
     Reply
    Elhigh was starred Elhigh was unstarred
    Image of duster_uk duster_uk
    12/05/09

    @Elhigh: "What happened to the Camry?"

    "I traded it".
     Reply
    Elhigh promoted this comment duster_uk was starred duster_uk was unstarred
    Image of Elhigh Elhigh
    12/05/09

    @duster_uk: Poor Lester. His life ended at almost the same moment it was ready to begin.
     Reply
    Elhigh was starred Elhigh was unstarred
    Image of that ain't the way to have fun, son that ain't the way to have fun, son
    12/05/09

    In reply to 1970 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am
    I have to respect the owner for still caring about his interior.

    Dashboards are a real drag to replace, and keeping sun/heat off them is key to long(er) life.
     Reply
    that ain't the way to have fun, son was starred that ain't the way to have fun, son was unstarred
    Image of DrLemming DrLemming
    12/05/09

    In reply to 1970 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am
    The 1970 Firebird had a more subtle, "European" look than the Camaro. To my taste the TA add ons ruin the cleanness of line.
     Reply
    DrLemming was starred DrLemming was unstarred
    Image of Muscles Marinara Muscles Marinara
    12/05/09

    @DrLemming: agreed. The T/A is iconic but a little too garish. I would take a nice, clean Formula 400 instead.
     Reply
    tonyola promoted this comment Muscles Marinara was starred Muscles Marinara was unstarred
    Image of tonyola tonyola
    12/05/09

    @Muscles Marinara: I find the twin hood scoops on the Formula to be unattractive overkill. For me, I'd like the Trans Am hood and side vent on a car in a solid color (not orange!) without the spoilers.
     Reply
    tonyola was starred tonyola was unstarred
    Image of chrystlubitshi still güntered and dieseling chrystlubitshi still güntered and dieseling
    12/05/09

    In reply to 1970 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am
    any idea what's under the car cover in the driveway? (pic seven of the gallery, third pic in the article).. looks like a nice square four-door full sizer.. sixties? chrysler or ford maybe?
     Reply
    chrystlubitshi still güntered and dieseling was starred chrystlubitshi still güntered and dieseling was unstarred
    Image of skaycog skaycog
    12/05/09

    @günter macbeetle, codename: chrystlubitshi: Yes, maybe a '66 Ford. Or maybe not.
     Reply
    skaycog was starred skaycog was unstarred
    Image of chrystlubitshi still güntered and dieseling chrystlubitshi still güntered and dieseling
    12/05/09

    @günter macbeetle, codename: chrystlubitshi: i did not realize there was a time window on this long asked for edit function... i guess it could also be a GM product.. but i kinda crossed those out b/c of the squareness of that rear corner.. oh yeah.. and i neglected to add that i, too, think it could be a vehicle of the70's vintage
     Reply
    Edited by chrystlubitshi still güntered and dieseling at 12/05/09 11:22 AM chrystlubitshi still güntered and dieseling was starred chrystlubitshi still güntered and dieseling was unstarred
    Image of Novaload Novaload
    12/05/09

    In reply to 1970 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am
    What you have there, Murilee, is the Firebird 400, based on the hood nostrils. You would have paid about a dollar a pound for the high ender.
    Here were your options.

    Cid HP Info
    250 175 6 cyl
    250 215 6 cyl
    350 265 2 bbl
    350 320 HO
    400 330 4bbl
    400 335 HO
    400 345 Ram Air II
    400 370 Ram Air IV
    400 500 Ram Air V
     Reply
    Novaload was starred Novaload was unstarred
    Image of tankman tankman
    12/05/09

    @Novaload: No way this is a Formula 400. The Formula 400 has twin, forward facing scoops. The Trans-Am has the single, rear facing scoop.
     Reply
    Novaload promoted this comment tankman was starred tankman was unstarred
    Image of Novaload Novaload
    12/05/09

    @tankman: LOL, I'm going senile.
    Then again, I saw what most people saw of it, which was the rear, not the front!
     Reply
    Novaload was starred Novaload was unstarred
    Image of Murilee Martin Murilee Martin
    12/05/09

    @Novaload: This may well be a FrankenPontiac, stitched together from the corpses of 11 Firebirds and equipped with aftermarket Trans Am decals. You never know.
     Reply
    Murilee Martin was starred Murilee Martin was unstarred
    Image of tankman tankman
    12/05/09

    @Novaload: What specifically makes you think it's a 400. Even the wheels are correct Trans Am. Go here to see a bunch of TransAm pics.
    [www.highperformancepontiac.com]
     Reply
    tankman was starred tankman was unstarred
    Image of Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet
    12/05/09

    In reply to 1970 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am
    Rust doesn't seem to have entirely overlooked this survivor. But a few more decals should fix that.

    The T/A was never my fave, but I have always liked this body style, particularly for the Camaro. The front bumper is a high point of GM styling. Even the scoops, spoilers and flares are restrained and meaningful. Compared with cartoonish bloat and miniscule performance that was to come for the Fire Chicken, this is pure elegance.
     Reply
    Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet was starred Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet was unstarred
    Image of Murilee Martin Murilee Martin
    12/05/09

    @Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet: That's just Northern California surface rust, from the rainy winters. Might be some rot under the rear window trim, but otherwise it should be just a little surface rust- no big deal.
     Reply
    Murilee Martin was starred Murilee Martin was unstarred
    Image of Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet
    12/05/09

    @Murilee Martin: Compared to what the rest of the country has to go through, that's just pity-rust.

    Still, somehow I can cope a little better when the car doesn't rust from the top down. Something about terminal cancer in your A-pillars, while the rest looks like it just rolled out of the factory...
     Reply
    Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet was starred Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet was unstarred
    Image of thunder; now eta-powered thunder; now eta-powered
    12/05/09

    In reply to 1970 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am
    The '70 Firebird and Camaro had the best looking schnoz of all the second-gen f-body iterations. Just look at that thing; looks like it could (and would) swallow small children whole.
     Reply
    thunder; now eta-powered was starred thunder; now eta-powered was unstarred
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