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grzydj
08/31/09

In reply to From Vulgar Display Of Power Stroke To Sounds Of Silence
People who buy these trucks don't care if they're quiet or not. I mean, the first thing they're going to do is gut the catalytic converter system and put a Banks kit on it, which will basically make it about as loud as a semi truck.
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diskreet
08/31/09

@grzydj: They should really just buy a sign that says "I have no penis" instead. Much cheaper... same result.
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ptschett
09/01/09

@diskreet: Or "I like it when people get respiratory diseases and die young". Diesel particulate emissions are a significant health hazard which would be greatly reduced if people would just let the 2007 and 2010 compliant systems do their job.
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Flathead Smith
09/01/09

@ptschett: "Diesel particulate emissions are a significant health hazard"
According to whom?

Unless your breathing directly out the tailpipe there is no risk, remember "dilution is a solution."

Who are you quoting here with the statement "("I like it when people get respiratory diseases and die young")"? I don’t remember anyone saying that.
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ptschett
09/01/09

@Flathead Smith: You don't have to be breathing straight from the tailpipe to have increased rates of respiratory trouble... here's an article discussing a study in the San Francisco bay area, for example. [www.sfgate.com]

Not quoting anyone in particular, just saying that tampering with diesel emissions control systems is not necessarily victimless (since the great-grandparent post referred to cutting off the catalysts.)
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Edited by ptschett at 09/01/09 8:51 AM ptschett was starred ptschett was unstarred

Flathead Smith
09/01/09

@ptschett: First of all any environmental study or article that comes from California is severely suspect in regard to outright blatant bias.

I bet the report does not in any way speak of the millions of lives that are vastly improved by the burning of diesel fuel.
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ptschett
09/01/09

@Flathead Smith: I'm one of those millions, my whole working life has been either operating diesel machines or designing them. But its not like CARB and EPA are just coming up with these requirements to make the vehicle or machine users' lives miserable. A parallel example is off-highway Tier 4 which has a 40:1 health cost benefit:added machine cost ratio (see bottom of page: [www.epa.gov] )
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Flathead Smith
09/01/09

@ptschett: If CARB and the EPA did not issue new requirements, or reduced the burden of existing regulations, what would be the point of their existence? Their funding would decrease, or not increase at as fast a rate, if they did that. They are incentivized to continually generate more stringent and burdensome regulations. The regulations cost them nothing compared to short term gain they receive, even though it is strangling Californian’s, and too a lesser extent the rest of the countries, ability to compete.

I can guarantee you that if the agencies budget were based on reducing regulations, there would be no regulations at all.
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DieselDutchman
09/01/09

@ptschett:
Hate to poke holes in the study but it's fundamentally flawed with only one of the conclusions drawn in the first few lines. It mentions PORT facility. As in ships. Ships (most) run on No. 6 or No. 5 diesel, as in RFO, which is basically asphalt (without the sand and rock) or tar. This stuff /does/ leave some nasty ash behind as to which anyone who leaves their auto in a car park in Rotterdam can attest. No.2 which is used in autos has a much lower particulate count and a much lower sulphur count in specific. Cutting a long pet-chem lecture short, any auto diesel newer than Euro II spec (pretty much anything used where leaded petrol is NOT sold) is quite clean and is not a particulate problem as days of old. The big particulate problem is ships and trains, and yes, there are laws on the books going into play to address those issues.
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ptschett
09/01/09

@DieselDutchman: Their study did find that 70% of the risk was from the truck traffic. Thanks for the background on the ships though, I knew they were dirty but didn't know they were that nasty.
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DieselDutchman
09/01/09

@ptschett: After time to read the entire paper, the model they use is still flawed. The model doesn't state that it takes into account BIN 5 fuel standards (somewhere between Euro IV and Euro V but with less cetane) or rely on modeled data based on new few standards or better fuel quality standards. It is like saying fuel quality or burn quality is never going to be better than it was in 2005. I also must question the model without the source methods of calculations being readily published (I couldn't find the programme or calculation). For example, one only need to go to LANL to get the full methodology for atomic modeling. I also don't see atmospheric chemistry being factored in with any major capacity.
Also the study paper uses a lot of terms like "may" and "suspect". In my branch of the sciences, a study holds much more water when terms such as "most probable [cause]" or "confirmed [through evidence cited]" or the like. For the sake of comparison of studies, compare this study in read with an US NTSB or UK AAIB air crash investigation.
The bottom line is that diesel 'soot' is much better than coal 'soot' and that our forefathers would have died exclusively of lung cancer in their 20's from coal fired 'everything' in the industrial revolution if soot were as dangerous as it was made out to be. Either that, or somehow diesel 'soot' is inherently more dangerous in North America.
Thanks for an interesting read!
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Flathead Smith
09/02/09

@DieselDutchman: I said earlier "First of all any environmental study or article that comes from California is severely suspect in regard to outright blatant bias."

It’s much easier when one looks to the source and its history of deceit and dismiss it as a bucketful of lies, than actually reading the thing. Sadly with most of the major news outlets and many studies paid for with taxes, this policy of mine can be used very successfully.

Thanks for reading it though.
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Flathead Smith
08/31/09

In reply to From Vulgar Display Of Power Stroke To Sounds Of Silence
I prefer the rattle from one large mechanical injection.
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Flathead Smith
08/31/09

Or should it be?

I prefer the rattle from one large mechanical injector.

I'm going with injection.
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stinkycatfish
08/31/09

@Flathead Smith: I think that there is only one injector per cylinder, so your first instinct is right.

(Pretty sure there isn't one injector for the entire engine.)
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Flathead Smith
08/31/09

@stinkycatfish: Some vehicles only have one large injector, but then have a rotary fuel distributor (6.2 GM diesel); others have individual mechanical injectors for each cylinder (old style 2 stroke Detroit Diesel). The electronic versions usually have individual electronic injectors similar to gasoline port injectors. There are some electronic units that had one fuel injector with a fuel distributor (I think the later 6.5 GM diesel).
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John Krewson
08/31/09

@Flathead Smith: Too late, Mr. Large Mechanical Injection Lover.
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stinkycatfish
09/01/09

@Flathead Smith: I just looked around, I guess I shouldn't make assumptions based on what what makes sense instinctivley to me.

I should also remember how diesel engines work and have always had injectors...
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Mad_Science
08/31/09

In reply to From Vulgar Display Of Power Stroke To Sounds Of Silence
"There's two pilot injections to quiet the engine that also help prepare for the main (third) injection. After the main injection, two more injections can be added as needed. The first for a little extra torque and the second — on the far end — for kicking off"

Wow.

Out of context, that sounds really dirty.

...or fun...
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that ain't the way to have fun, son
08/31/09

In reply to From Vulgar Display Of Power Stroke To Sounds Of Silence
Honestly, the first time I thought I heard a VW TDI, the small one (Jetta size), I thought, "WOW!", and spun around to look at it.

It was a mid-to-late '80's Taurus which was beat-to-hell.

I've since heard a VW, and it's even quieter than that heap-O-Taurus.
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Ash78, cube farmer
08/31/09

In reply to Ford's "Scorpion" Power Stroke Diesel V8: Live And In Living Color!
Are they beta testing it as a janitor's pressure washer?
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sos10
06/18/09

In reply to Chrysler Kills Diesel Engines For Dodge Ram 1500 Pickups
Time for a Fiat Diesel, much more modern.
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dwegmull comments for the purpose of obscurity
06/18/09

In reply to Chrysler Kills Diesel Engines For Dodge Ram 1500 Pickups
There is (will, may?) a small, diesel truck coming: [www.mahindrana.com]

It's not the best looking, but it is small, diesel powered, available in single or double cab with a 1.38ton payload and 2.5 ton towing capacity. They claim 30MPG on the highway. And, according to them they will be able to meet emission standards for all 50 states.
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GasGuzzler
06/18/09

In reply to Chrysler Kills Diesel Engines For Dodge Ram 1500 Pickups
If this is aynthing like the small Duramax that was axed (and I'm betting it is), cost is the number one factor. All this emissions jazz and BS costs some serious coin. Estimates I've heard from some GM boys woudl have put the LD Dmax at nearly $10,000 -- an option many are not likely to take.

Is LD diesel a good idea? Yes. But the unfortunate part is that the product planners didn't anticipate costs very well and our clown show government likes to change regulations on a "flavor of the week" basis.

Thanks EPA.
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Six Flags Over Tomsk
06/18/09

@GasGuzzler: CARB deserves more credit in this regard.
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DoctorNine
06/18/09

In reply to Chrysler Kills Diesel Engines For Dodge Ram 1500 Pickups
PTMeyer84 is on target with this one, methinks.
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Elhigh
06/18/09

In reply to Chrysler Kills Diesel Engines For Dodge Ram 1500 Pickups
Hmm...what is arguably Dodge's most popular product, made less tractable by removing availability of what would certainly be a popular option. Lessee here...

Chrysler continues to be run by mentally handicapped chimps.

You incredibly moronic asshats! Make it a unique RPO - you want the diesel, make a special order and deliver when it's ready. Customer gets exactly what he wants, plus he feels it's a custom job (which it is, sorta), and you don't pay until you've got the customer's money to cover the bill for the engine. Is that so hard?

Then Mr. McBudgetTrucker gets his Cummins, Cummins gets some business, Dodge gets more business, and all you suits get to keep your desk jobs. But nooooo...

Will those MBAs help you get a job digging a ditch? You better hope so.
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combat chuck
06/18/09

@Elhigh: That was a great rant, and I like your logic.
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bmoreDLJ
06/18/09

In reply to Chrysler Kills Diesel Engines For Dodge Ram 1500 Pickups
Hey, HORRIBLE NEWS! The DACIA SANDERO! IT'S DELAYED!!!
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combat chuck
06/18/09

@bmoreDLJ: oh no...[trails off]
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.357
06/18/09

@bmoreDLJ: OH N0ES!!!!!!111111!!!!!!!!111111!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!
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Alfisted
06/18/09

In reply to Chrysler Kills Diesel Engines For Dodge Ram 1500 Pickups
Sad news that makes it easier to stand pat with my current pickup indefinitely. Guess I'll spend some of that money on a lift kit and big meats so that I can expose my undercarriage to other motorists.
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Scandinavian Flick
06/18/09

@Alfisted: Make sure to dangle some glow in the dark truck nuts in their faces.
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engineerd
06/18/09

In reply to Chrysler Kills Diesel Engines For Dodge Ram 1500 Pickups
Between vacation and going TDY at KSC I haven't been able to follow the travails of the Government 2, so forgive me if this is a stupid question. Didn't Chrysler exit bankruptcy when the sale to Fiat was completed last week? Or is the sale not technically complete and Chrysler is still technically in bankruptcy even though Rattner has already talked about how pleased he was that Chrysler exited bankruptcy so quick.

Thank you in advance,

Flummoxed in Florida
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.357
06/18/09

@engineerd hates hydrogen leaks: You forgot the Dear, Abby
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FTGDWolverineEdition'09
06/18/09

@engineerd hates hydrogen leaks:

WTF are you still doing in that god forsaken state son? And WTH is TDY?? You sure are going mad buddy. Need to be back in MI.
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engineerd
06/18/09

@Formerlythegreatestdriver: After I got back from vacation, my boss came to me and asked how I liked FL because I was going back on a temporary duty assignment (TDY) at Kennedy Space Center.

@TimTim: I know that, but why is this filing in bankruptcy court? Are they not technically out of bankruptcy yet? You're absolutely right that upon exiting bankruptcy Fiat will own something like 20%, creditors will get screwed with only 10%, and the government/UAW owning the rest.
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.357
06/18/09

In reply to Chrysler Kills Diesel Engines For Dodge Ram 1500 Pickups
That's great. Now they can put the money from these into making a hybrid powertrain to power trucks that will use (gasp) more fuel than equivalent diesels would have. It's really the best decision in the end.
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WhoistheWalrus
06/18/09

In reply to Chrysler Kills Diesel Engines For Dodge Ram 1500 Pickups
So... I don't get it. Maybe I'm just slow, but I can't see the reasoning behind this. Is there any actual reason that they're killing the diesel trucks?
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Alphamazing
06/18/09

@WhoistheWalrus: Americans think diesels are dirty and gross and spew black smoke everywhere all the time, are horribly underpowered, and noisy.
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WhoistheWalrus
06/18/09

@Alphamazing:

Well isn't that just great. You know, I've always wondered, the VW diesels everyone likes. Hell, everyone likes the German diesels, but as soon as you put it in a truck it becomes the "dirty, gross" fuel.
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pauljones
06/18/09

@WhoistheWalrus: Automotive journalists like them. The VW dealership in my area has four on the lot that haven't moved since they got there.
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DoctorNine
06/18/09

@pauljones: Small passenger car diesels ≠ light truck diesels.

Questions?
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pauljones
06/18/09

@DoctorNineVoltBatteriesNotIncl...: In reality, no, they certainly do not. In the perception of the American car buying public, yes, they frequently do.
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