My own personal experience with Z cars was when some 18 year old kid ran me off the road while he was driving a 280ZX. The early Z cars are basically too expensive to run at LeMons. Anything at LeMons will probably have been passed over for a parts car by a more serious race team. The ZX ones on the other hand have usually gone through a succession of mulleted, under 25, hoons by this point. The owners of these cars were looking for a "sports car" alternative to a Camaro and couldn't afford a Vette. Seeing as how a ZX is much more complicated than a similar vintage Z-28 the ZXs at the $500 level haven't fared too well. The one that hit me was doing about 80mph in a 45mph zone with his right side wheels on the center-line. The guy had just gotten it back on the road. It might be available in some junkyard still (7 years later), the most serious damage was where the rear bumper on my K-5 Blazer opened up the side of his car like a can opener.
I see junk ZXs at the pull-a-part yards fairly regularly, the only time I have seen an early Z was at the scrap metal yard. A serious SOLO racer had junked an old race car body.
Thrashedness. We tried to make one good LeMons racer out of two mid 80's Zs and realized half way through the build that it wasn't going to happen. Most every part on both cars was at the ragged end of useful life. We traded the glamor of Japanese performance and classic style for a lowly Escort.
@f86sabre: The Escort is actually an excellent choice for a team hoping to maximize racing time and maybe contend. Very few Escorts blow up at LeMons, and they're pretty quick.
The only Z I've seen for $500 didn't have an engine, so I can only imagine how trashed one would have to be to be down in LeMons price range and "running".
I probably should have added "Overstressed cheater engines that blow up after 3 hours" to the list, since I'm pretty sure that's also a major factor. Small-block Chevy teams might learn something from that as well.
@Murilee Martin: This brings up a question I have about LeMons races, and one I could easily answer myself by actually attending a race: since many of these cars are in precarious situations, mechanically, it seems that driving them balls-out race style would definitely result in serious malfunction. Since this is an endurance race, does anyone drive less aggro, with maybe just one ball out, thus ensuring that they complete more than ten laps?, or does driving at less than optimal speed result in too much clogging-of-the-track and hatred and venom spewed from your competitors and the judges?
@eggwich del fiero: Nope, for the vast majority of LeMons racers, it's pedal to the floor at every opportunity; hence the multiple failures every race.
You blow it up/break it and make it better for the next race, and eventually you have a crapbox that can finish.
Sandbaggers get punished, but I think that most of the LeMons racers aren't that 'strategic' anyway. It's a race for $500 cars, for F* sake.
@eggwich del fiero: Everyone is beating on their cars pretty hard the whole time. The difference between the super-aggro drivers and the saner ones is their criteria for what constitutes a valid passing opportunity. The former tend to hit more stuff than the latter, but both beat the crap out of their cars' mechanicals.
Actually, I think this indicates exceptional overall build quality, as there isn't a specific failure. Hence, the team must be experts, or damned creative, in every system, sub-system, and part.
@FP - tittin' and shittin' with Tomsk: Okay, okay...I wasn't specific enough. It's still early for the weekend, and I was studying a solid 12 hours for the MCSE, yesterday...um, excluding the time used to read/post, here, of course.
Shhhh!
The entire car is put together/engineered well enough so that seemingly random parts fail due to what most consider excessive age/use/abuse. There's no telling how the vehicle was treated in it's history.
British Leyland...when the whole car sucks you have, well the GM J-car. Random part failure while still in the new car section of the car park is different.
@diesel W123's don't die: Hey! Our J-car is a shining example of suck! It's had the crap beaten out of it, especially in those early Altamont races, and it's been quite good...
@Alexander Card: Hmmm... come to think of it, the altar-boy-diddlin' priest in my neighborhood drove a 280Z. He was a young, hip-type priest... and now he's cost the diocese enough lawsuit money to buy many, many new Nissans.
I really wanted to vote for the inherent badness of all Nissans, but my Maxima ownership should not be enough for me to condemn the entire make. That, and I really want a Z someday (either a late 280 in all of it's malaisey goodness, or a Z32), so I refuse to believe that they all suck.
Having worked as a service adviser in recent years, I'd be amazed if Dan Gurney and AJ Foyt could take a showroom fresh Nissan and win a 24 hour race against a Volvo 140 driven by 9 year olds.
@smalleyxb122: I love my z32, cheap to buy, EXPENSIVE to own. There's always something more you want to buy for it. Still, nothing like cruising with the t-tops off down by the beach or racing it through the mountain twisties. Be aware, it is basically the same engine as in the Maxima (NA is a bit more hp, turbo a lot more). That engine has a way of loosening all it's hose clamps. Yes I blew the engine on mine racing it. It's got a new one now (and my wallet is $4k lighter).
@dolo54 blows minds and blows engines!: We didn't really think about operating costs when my friend bought his $3200 Z32 a couple months ago. A couple weeks and the head gasket's gone. When he gets back in town we're gonna see if we can outsource some funding from Indonesia, which isn't what it sounds like.
I wouldn't attribute it to years of abuse - I doubt they're any more abused than other relics that have run successfully at LeMons. In the case of ZX's, perhaps all those years in the secretarial pool have made them complacent.
If I had to wager a guess, it'd be that the earlier Zs are just a little too expensive to find a competetive one, and the later Zs are a little too bloated and complex.
But clearly, on account of the flouridation conspiracy, Zs know we sense their power, and seek their racing essence. They do not avoid us. But they do deny us their essence.
@FP - tittin' and shittin' with Tomsk: Bingo. Felt the same way about the Capri that ran a few weeks back. If I could find one in decent shape, my friends and neighbors would have a new reason to laugh at me.
@FP - tittin' and shittin' with Tomsk: Did I say to start with restorable ones...@skitter: Hail Murilee Hail Murilee Hail Murilee Hail Murilee Hail Murilee, there didnt even copy+paste .
@Alfisted: The Capri that ran at Reno was, and I say this with great affection for the car and its builders/drivers, a piece of crap. They weren't killing it by taking it to LeMons; if anything, they were commuting its death sentence and allowing it to go out in a blaze of glory.
Racing in LeMons doesn't necessarily mean a car will be destroyed (although in some cases, it probably should.) Any of the neat cars that you'll see at LeMons (like my buddy's Porsche 914) would otherwise have been parts cars or crusher fodder. A racing series developed specifically for shitty cars gives them a new lease on life. I say bring on the (rusty, gutted) LeMons 510s!
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I see junk ZXs at the pull-a-part yards fairly regularly, the only time I have seen an early Z was at the scrap metal yard. A serious SOLO racer had junked an old race car body.
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You blow it up/break it and make it better for the next race, and eventually you have a crapbox that can finish.
Sandbaggers get punished, but I think that most of the LeMons racers aren't that 'strategic' anyway. It's a race for $500 cars, for F* sake.
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Shhhh!
The entire car is put together/engineered well enough so that seemingly random parts fail due to what most consider excessive age/use/abuse. There's no telling how the vehicle was treated in it's history.
British Leyland...when the whole car sucks you have, well the GM J-car. Random part failure while still in the new car section of the car park is different.
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BA-ZING! Who saw that coming?! NOBODY! YES! HILARIOUS!
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Having worked as a service adviser in recent years, I'd be amazed if Dan Gurney and AJ Foyt could take a showroom fresh Nissan and win a 24 hour race against a Volvo 140 driven by 9 year olds.
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But clearly, on account of the flouridation conspiracy, Zs know we sense their power, and seek their racing essence. They do not avoid us. But they do deny us their essence.
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Your internet grammar makes me cry.
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Hail Murilee, full of race, the Ford is with thee; blessed art thou amongst minxes, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, DOTS.
Holy Murilee, Mother of PCH, pray for us Jalops, now and at the blowing of our head gaskets. Amen.
06/27/09
Racing in LeMons doesn't necessarily mean a car will be destroyed (although in some cases, it probably should.) Any of the neat cars that you'll see at LeMons (like my buddy's Porsche 914) would otherwise have been parts cars or crusher fodder. A racing series developed specifically for shitty cars gives them a new lease on life. I say bring on the (rusty, gutted) LeMons 510s!
06/28/09