I have not been able to visit this site or my jfavorite Jalopnik fan site since I started slinging Cadillacs about 3 weeks ago. I have never been so damn excited about a product launch in my life that I am actually breaking company rules to post here and tell you that I have never been so excited about a product launch in my life.
@SpardaFatalis: Basically--and this works for anything--if you are afraid of snow, go AWD. If you are not, go RWD. If it rarely or never snows where you live, all-wheel drive is a big ol' waste.
Edited by A strolling player got drunk and at 11/23/09 11:17 PM
A strolling player got drunk and was starred
A strolling player got drunk and was unstarred
@SpardaFatalis: Rear-drive cars split the jobs of steering and power completely. Since all-wheel-drive cars will send both power and steering input through the front wheels, they are prone to understeer.
And AWD systems are heavy. Heavy ain't good, not for acceleration, not for fuel economy. Plus, the added complication adds cost and adds more things to break.
Since the first concept I've seen of this coup i could not stop thinking that a staggered rim size would benefit this design immensely. Pardon my Photoshop hack-and-slash. Ignore that the rear brakes are bigger then the front and that the car no longer sits level. You get the idea.
I can't wait to see one of these piloted by one of our more senior hoons practicing the Art and Science of the blind lane change because he can't really figure out if there's a glazier's truck at his 5:00. Crash! Tinkle!
I loved the coupe when I first saw it but it's getting to be a bit like the Camaro: Years on the autoshow circuit and by the time it's on the lot everyone's already tired of it. Just build the damn thing! When do you ever see BMW or Audi showing off their new cars years before production?
@pauljones: Yes, but they don't display the same upcoming models at every auto show for years and years while issuing press releases on a weekly basis.
Ford did the same thing with the 2002 Thunderbird. After seeing it every month in every car magazine, it felt like it had been around for 5 years before it even went on sale.
Seeing this concept and the sedan version was the highlight of the last Sydney Motor Show, for me at least. The thought that Cadillac would begin selling here was exciting.
Then the GFC hit, and GM canned it's Australian plans. Bummer.
Cadillac has become the most interesting of GM's brands. Please look at your Aussie export program again. We love RWD V8s...
It will happen the same with this car that happened with the Camaro: after all the hype testers will realize that, although very good from an engineering POV, you just cant see out of it, the interior is a bit crap, and there is just something missing: the Camaro seems to be too sporty while not enough "mullet-y" and the Caddy will also seem too sporty but not enough luxurious.
Other thing, unless backup cameras are standard, that car will be unparkable in reverse!
@RLJ676-LS3 Commuter Car - for the environment: I'm just calling it as I see it... If you read above, I compared it with the Camaro first, then called it a "bit crap".
By that, I mean that while it has nice leather (I dig the stitched dash), there are some things that seem badly done. For instance, the pop up nav begins making chirring noises after a while everytime you turn it on, as noted by Edmunds Inside Line.
Yes, I like the CTS, but only as a sedan. Still think a lot could be improved. If they really want to be an alternative to BMW, Audi, etc, they have to improve that interior, that is my opinion (I also think BMW interior's dont cut it either).
Besides, you have to admit that this CTS coupe is not a real looker, and it has those awful gun slit windows every car seems to have now.
@evilvocho: Yes, it makes a barely discernible whirring sound as a result of using small electric motors. Pop-up nav systems tend to do that in every car that has them.
Edmunds Inside Line has all the credibility of Consumer Reports. Try as they might, they are glorified appliance raters. I read the same review that you did, and that is the only time I have heard any complaint about the CTS navigation system.
As for the interior, unless you personally don't care for the design aesthetic, which is understandable, I don't see where it falls short in any way. The quality of materials is there. The build quality is there.The design, while somewhere in left field, is far more interesting and intuitive than BMW or Mercedes-Benz interiors. The sedan could have a little more backseat legroom, by that's a minor nitpick. What in particular about the interior is it that you think needs improvement?
@pauljones: Yes, I do also know the noise of an electric motor, but the chirring noise, if you saw the same vid I did, was not of the motor itself, more likely from the rails (or whatever they are called).
I've been inside a CTS, I just don't like it. Hardly objective, but we are talking opinions here.
I may be wrong, but on what I'm certainly not wrong (again, unobjectively) is on the car's exterior looks.
That beltline is too high, windows too small...
As someone said before in another thread, looks like a photoshop job!
Don't get mad people, it's just an opinion!
@evilvocho: I'm not mad at you for having your opinion; I realize that the car's design is polarizing, and intentionally so. Cadillac design is doing the same thing that Bangle did several years back: getting people to have opinions and talk about them,
Whether you like the car or not, you're talking about it and raising brand awareness, which is precisely what matters to them right now.
I just don't get that people are so quick to judge the interior based on their subjective opinion of whether or not they like the way it looks. Again, I have no problems with people not caring for the overall design aesthetic of the interior. But the design aesthetic is not the same as the materials used, which in the case of the CTS, are as good as anything else you'll find in its market range.
As for the Edmunds Inside Line test car, you'll note that was pretty much their one and only major objective nitpick, and a barely legitimate one as it happened in one car and one car only; there has been no evidence of it (that I know of) in other cars. It's not unreasonable to expect that in a line of mass-produced cars, once in while, one of them will have a slight quirk.
That's nothing that can be legitimately held against the car or the manufacturer, otherwise BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Audi would be in the poor house with all the gadget and system flaws present in their cars, which, contrary to popular perception, are quite frequent.
@pauljones: Yeah, maybe I'm wrong, I don't know... Just to make it clear: I'm not a fan boy of any brand (well, maybe of used cars, I've never seen the point in getting something new, the new car smell doesn't do it for me hahaha), in fact, I hope there are always as many succesful brands as possible, for that way we will get every car for every taste, and more importantly defined brands (BMW, solve your identuty crisis please!).
I just don't like the way this looks!
no AWD with the manual? i was pretty excited about this until i read that.
why is making an AWD manual coupe so difficult? (i'd throw turbo/super-charging in there too...)
took forever for BMW to do it (335 AWD coupe). other than that... the TT and the A5 is about it. R8 / Gallardo and the C4s / Turbo on the higher end i suppose.
but a basic manual AWD coupe seems to be difficult these days.
@x23: There is a lot of product planning going on in the background before any model is introduced to the public. With all the MBAs tracking the potential sales, it comes down to the return on investment.
One giant expense standing in the way of offering an AWD with a manual is the cost associated with certifying the vehicle. Currently, all car companies have to certify each powertrain combination separately. That means certifying the engine/transmission/drive wheels with all their inherent costs associated with it. If GM wants to certify the CTS AWD Manual, they would have to go through all the same certification process again. Balance that off with the potential sales (less than 1% of the mix) and it really doesn't justify the expense.
@Wes Siler: As a further note-check out some of the old Inside Line suspension walkthroughs for an excellent explanation of the differences in feel and steering between RWD and AWD CTSes.
11/23/09
Repetition is key to sales.
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Don't tease me, I'm fragile.
11/23/09
Please don't tease me, I'm fragile.
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#speakup
11/23/09
#tips
11/23/09
If it rarely snows where you live, the only excuse for owning an all-wheel-drive car is that the other version drives only the fronts.
11/23/09
#speakup
11/24/09
And AWD systems are heavy. Heavy ain't good, not for acceleration, not for fuel economy. Plus, the added complication adds cost and adds more things to break.
11/24/09
#speakup
11/23/09
Since the first concept I've seen of this coup i could not stop thinking that a staggered rim size would benefit this design immensely. Pardon my Photoshop hack-and-slash. Ignore that the rear brakes are bigger then the front and that the car no longer sits level. You get the idea.
11/23/09
11/23/09
I knew they'd bring back the bustle-back!
My Grandpa willbe thrilled!
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All of them had concept-to-production times that were as long or longer than the CTS coupe.
11/23/09
Ford did the same thing with the 2002 Thunderbird. After seeing it every month in every car magazine, it felt like it had been around for 5 years before it even went on sale.
11/23/09
The SLR, R-Class, X1, X6, and GLK were among the worst of them.
#tips
11/23/09
I knew you loved us.
11/23/09
And for 2013, the -V version.
11/23/09
Although, a two-door CTS shooting break would be pretty damn cool.
11/23/09
11/23/09
It's been a strange day...
11/23/09
Still, the fact that the CTS has seen the light of production is the one bit of good news I've had thus far.
11/23/09
Good news, though, it is. GM lives!
11/23/09
11/24/09
Even more understeer potential!
11/23/09
Then the GFC hit, and GM canned it's Australian plans. Bummer.
Cadillac has become the most interesting of GM's brands. Please look at your Aussie export program again. We love RWD V8s...
11/23/09
11/23/09
Other thing, unless backup cameras are standard, that car will be unparkable in reverse!
11/23/09
11/23/09
By that, I mean that while it has nice leather (I dig the stitched dash), there are some things that seem badly done. For instance, the pop up nav begins making chirring noises after a while everytime you turn it on, as noted by Edmunds Inside Line.
Yes, I like the CTS, but only as a sedan. Still think a lot could be improved. If they really want to be an alternative to BMW, Audi, etc, they have to improve that interior, that is my opinion (I also think BMW interior's dont cut it either).
Besides, you have to admit that this CTS coupe is not a real looker, and it has those awful gun slit windows every car seems to have now.
11/23/09
Edmunds Inside Line has all the credibility of Consumer Reports. Try as they might, they are glorified appliance raters. I read the same review that you did, and that is the only time I have heard any complaint about the CTS navigation system.
As for the interior, unless you personally don't care for the design aesthetic, which is understandable, I don't see where it falls short in any way. The quality of materials is there. The build quality is there.The design, while somewhere in left field, is far more interesting and intuitive than BMW or Mercedes-Benz interiors. The sedan could have a little more backseat legroom, by that's a minor nitpick. What in particular about the interior is it that you think needs improvement?
11/23/09
I've been inside a CTS, I just don't like it. Hardly objective, but we are talking opinions here.
I may be wrong, but on what I'm certainly not wrong (again, unobjectively) is on the car's exterior looks.
That beltline is too high, windows too small...
As someone said before in another thread, looks like a photoshop job!
Don't get mad people, it's just an opinion!
11/23/09
Whether you like the car or not, you're talking about it and raising brand awareness, which is precisely what matters to them right now.
I just don't get that people are so quick to judge the interior based on their subjective opinion of whether or not they like the way it looks. Again, I have no problems with people not caring for the overall design aesthetic of the interior. But the design aesthetic is not the same as the materials used, which in the case of the CTS, are as good as anything else you'll find in its market range.
As for the Edmunds Inside Line test car, you'll note that was pretty much their one and only major objective nitpick, and a barely legitimate one as it happened in one car and one car only; there has been no evidence of it (that I know of) in other cars. It's not unreasonable to expect that in a line of mass-produced cars, once in while, one of them will have a slight quirk.
That's nothing that can be legitimately held against the car or the manufacturer, otherwise BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Audi would be in the poor house with all the gadget and system flaws present in their cars, which, contrary to popular perception, are quite frequent.
#tips
11/23/09
I just don't like the way this looks!
#tips
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Both are equally obtainable.
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why is making an AWD manual coupe so difficult? (i'd throw turbo/super-charging in there too...)
took forever for BMW to do it (335 AWD coupe). other than that... the TT and the A5 is about it. R8 / Gallardo and the C4s / Turbo on the higher end i suppose.
but a basic manual AWD coupe seems to be difficult these days.
11/23/09
One giant expense standing in the way of offering an AWD with a manual is the cost associated with certifying the vehicle. Currently, all car companies have to certify each powertrain combination separately. That means certifying the engine/transmission/drive wheels with all their inherent costs associated with it. If GM wants to certify the CTS AWD Manual, they would have to go through all the same certification process again. Balance that off with the potential sales (less than 1% of the mix) and it really doesn't justify the expense.
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