@Prawo Jazdy and The Stanley Cups.: Hardly. Cash for gold pays you the wholesale metal value for your jewelry. Even that antique Tiffany brooch that might be worth 100x more in the right place.
The Scrappage program pays you more than your car is worth as scrap, by maybe 10x. If you could sell your car for more than you'll get crushing it, then you have little incentive to participate.
I had a little Miss High-and-Mighty have a go at me for driving an old 1990 Falcon. She said her car is only 3 years old, cost ONLY $5000 more than my Ford, produces less carbon and is safer.
I countered...
Her car is a little 3 cylinder piece of shit and too small for my +6ft frame.
My car is up to date with servicing so I asked when she last serviced hers. "It doesn't need one it's only 3 years old". I then was about to tell she's dumb and to fuck off but I asked if I can see her car. It was just outside. A Daihatsu with 4 bald tyres (less than 2mm tread). Then I told her to fuck off.
@LandofMinos, Undies stink, Time for Change: A woman once asked me if I wasn't bothered by the fact that my Sunbeam Alpine isn't eco-friendly. She said she gets 28 miles per gallon in her v6/automatic Honda Accord; my rainforest-destroying toy gets around 30.
You have to love a law that directly affects the poorest people in the country - its going to get a lot harder to buy a cheap used car to get around. And this is going to be loophole city - and where do all these 3500-4500 checks come from? Thank you very much - this is my government at WORK!
BTW - if you can think of a future classic that's post 1985, esp American, their value will skyrocket in the years to come. I think my Jeep Wagoneer just got a lot more valuable..those would be prime candidates for the crusher now.
limiting the cars to those produced in model year 1985 or after.
...
However, you can strip and sell any part of the car that isn't the engine block.
All right. It's the best we're likely to get out of Congress, and it's not a bad idea. It's just a goddamn shame about the "must get less than 18" rule, because I know of a lot of Cavaliers I'd like to see crushed.
@Feds: The use of "inaction" seems apropos. I initially thought that you had a typo, but "inaction" seems more accurate than anything of the root "enact".
Matt: tell me if I'm wrong, but it looks like you can salvage everything but the block:
(B) SAVINGS PROVISION- Nothing in subparagraph (A) may be construed to preclude a person who is responsible for ensuring that the vehicle is crushed or shredded from--
(i) selling any parts of the disposed vehicle other than the engine block and drive train (unless the transmission, drive shaft, or rear end are sold as separate parts); or
(ii) retaining the proceeds from such sale.
I read that as you can sell anything but the block.
@Mad_Science: That doesn't sound too bad. Hopefully most owners (or, at the very least, the wrecking yards that receive the cars) will realize that there's money to be had from stripping and selling things like seats, trim, sheetmetal, wheels, electrics, etc.
@Mad_Science: by the definitions in the law I mean salvaging it in the sense of selling it with a salvaged title, as opposed to stripping off the parts and selling them. I clarified the text above.
I guess I was thinking about the salvage yards where I get all of my LeMons parts, rather than the salvage title that my LeMons car would have (if we put it back on the road).
I suspect this might have the odd effect of flooding the market with non-block engine parts (heads, etc).
I'm trying to imagine circumstances under which any real live person I've ever known would either want to or be able to take advantage of this. Perhaps... no, without question I know some unusual people, but I just can't make this work in my head. I don't really like it, but I can't say I feel threatened by it either.
@Mad_Science: Me, Once I get a job, and have been working for a couple of months, I owe $4k on my 2001 Ranger and have good credit. I owe more then the truck is worth so IF
I can get $4500 for it the gov I am $500 ahead.
Then find some dealer having a close out sale on something I want. I can get something new for under $10k at 0% so monthly payments drop and I might get it payed of before it goes to crusher.
@Stranger than most: I can't think of a single new car that cheap that I'd want to buy...but more power to you.
I guess I'm not arguing that no one is going to use this program, just that there aren't that many people.
It's not going to be the wholesale slaughter of would-be classics that people are making it out to be...more like a relatively ineffective program that'll get rid of a few boring 90s cars and trucks.
This might just work out. The main point of the bill is to sell more new cars. It should do this, though it may cannibalize sales from people who move up their purchases rather than holding on for another year or two like they had planned.
The second point of the bill is to increase the vehicle fleet fuel efficiency. This will do that, though the minimum improvement is relatively modest.
The third point is to reduce air pollution. New cars are less polluting than old cars, and old cars have problems maintaining their emissions equipment.
For resource efficiency and overall sustainability, it doesn't look quite as good. From a life cycle energy use perspective, a more fuel efficient car should have a positive impact over its life, perhaps a very substantial improvement.
Crushing a useful car that someone could buy to replace an even worse car is a bit of a loss. Crushing an entire car before useful parts can be stripped to keep other cars going is also a loss. Generally it is best to reuse parts and materials in as close to their current status as possible: eg rinsing and reusing your beer bottle, rather than crushing it and then using the shards to make a new bottle.
Even better would have been vastly increasing the attention paid to transit, multi-occupancy cars, and to provide facilities for pedestrians and bicycles. But, since the country has been dedicated to the car for the past sixty years, a transition from complete reliance on private autos has to be incremental if it is not to be overly disruptive and counterproductive.
Personally, it looks like I could trade in my car - that I paid $4,000 for about ten years ago and get a $3,500 credit. That's pretty appealing, as opposed to shining it up, fixing it up, putting up ads and then dealing with lowballing yahoos. Since my car has something like a 25 mpg CAFE average (and suits me just fine), it limits what I could be buying substantially. I'm not really sure what's out there and new that I actually would want to buy right now.
@Van Sarockin, rogue trebuchet: How much energy is spilled to build the new car? does it compensate the extra fuel use of the old? is the final eco balance positive with this? more labor to make new cars?, older cars tend to have more mechanical problems, therefore need more mechanics and parts suppliers.
Personally, it looks like I could trade in my car - that I paid $4,000 for about ten years ago and get a $3,500 credit ... my car has something like a 25 mpg CAFE average
"The passenger car being trading in has to get 18 MPG or less."
06/10/09
06/10/09
The Scrappage program pays you more than your car is worth as scrap, by maybe 10x. If you could sell your car for more than you'll get crushing it, then you have little incentive to participate.
06/09/09
I literally lol'ed at the "choppy waters of a Cape Cod inlet" crack.
And hell yea to Keg Dude.
06/09/09
I countered...
Her car is a little 3 cylinder piece of shit and too small for my +6ft frame.
My car is up to date with servicing so I asked when she last serviced hers. "It doesn't need one it's only 3 years old". I then was about to tell she's dumb and to fuck off but I asked if I can see her car. It was just outside. A Daihatsu with 4 bald tyres (less than 2mm tread). Then I told her to fuck off.
06/10/09
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06/09/09
People can rip on the conservatives to high hell, but God forbid someone poke fun at a liberal.
Seriously, some people just need to relax. Go get an organic beer at whole foods, sit down and relax.
06/09/09
06/09/09
BTW - if you can think of a future classic that's post 1985, esp American, their value will skyrocket in the years to come. I think my Jeep Wagoneer just got a lot more valuable..those would be prime candidates for the crusher now.
06/09/09
Were you really interested in buying a brand new car?
06/09/09
06/09/09
Also, me.
06/09/09
06/09/09
06/09/09
06/09/09
...
However, you can strip and sell any part of the car that isn't the engine block.
All right. It's the best we're likely to get out of Congress, and it's not a bad idea. It's just a goddamn shame about the "must get less than 18" rule, because I know of a lot of Cavaliers I'd like to see crushed.
06/09/09
06/09/09
06/09/09
06/09/09
(B) SAVINGS PROVISION- Nothing in subparagraph (A) may be construed to preclude a person who is responsible for ensuring that the vehicle is crushed or shredded from--
(i) selling any parts of the disposed vehicle other than the engine block and drive train (unless the transmission, drive shaft, or rear end are sold as separate parts); or
(ii) retaining the proceeds from such sale.
I read that as you can sell anything but the block.
06/09/09
06/09/09
06/09/09
06/09/09
"To The Crusher!
The law is very explicit on this point: the car has to be crushed. ."
I'm working of the definition of "salvage" that means strip for useful bits, not preserve the whole thing in it's intact state.
06/09/09
06/09/09
06/09/09
I guess I was thinking about the salvage yards where I get all of my LeMons parts, rather than the salvage title that my LeMons car would have (if we put it back on the road).
I suspect this might have the odd effect of flooding the market with non-block engine parts (heads, etc).
06/09/09
06/09/09
In order to participate:
--You drive a car that's worth less than $4500-3500.
--You have the income/credit to afford a new car (starting roughly at $15k)
Who is this?
06/09/09
I can get $4500 for it the gov I am $500 ahead.
Then find some dealer having a close out sale on something I want. I can get something new for under $10k at 0% so monthly payments drop and I might get it payed of before it goes to crusher.
06/09/09
I guess I'm not arguing that no one is going to use this program, just that there aren't that many people.
It's not going to be the wholesale slaughter of would-be classics that people are making it out to be...more like a relatively ineffective program that'll get rid of a few boring 90s cars and trucks.
06/09/09
The second point of the bill is to increase the vehicle fleet fuel efficiency. This will do that, though the minimum improvement is relatively modest.
The third point is to reduce air pollution. New cars are less polluting than old cars, and old cars have problems maintaining their emissions equipment.
For resource efficiency and overall sustainability, it doesn't look quite as good. From a life cycle energy use perspective, a more fuel efficient car should have a positive impact over its life, perhaps a very substantial improvement.
Crushing a useful car that someone could buy to replace an even worse car is a bit of a loss. Crushing an entire car before useful parts can be stripped to keep other cars going is also a loss. Generally it is best to reuse parts and materials in as close to their current status as possible: eg rinsing and reusing your beer bottle, rather than crushing it and then using the shards to make a new bottle.
Even better would have been vastly increasing the attention paid to transit, multi-occupancy cars, and to provide facilities for pedestrians and bicycles. But, since the country has been dedicated to the car for the past sixty years, a transition from complete reliance on private autos has to be incremental if it is not to be overly disruptive and counterproductive.
Personally, it looks like I could trade in my car - that I paid $4,000 for about ten years ago and get a $3,500 credit. That's pretty appealing, as opposed to shining it up, fixing it up, putting up ads and then dealing with lowballing yahoos. Since my car has something like a 25 mpg CAFE average (and suits me just fine), it limits what I could be buying substantially. I'm not really sure what's out there and new that I actually would want to buy right now.
06/09/09
06/10/09
Personally, it looks like I could trade in my car - that I paid $4,000 for about ten years ago and get a $3,500 credit ... my car has something like a 25 mpg CAFE average
"The passenger car being trading in has to get 18 MPG or less."
06/10/09
But this does point out that the program is a reward to people who bought inefficient cars. Those of us who bought efficient cars will get bupkis.